Underrated burgundy vintages

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Mich@el Ch@ng
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Underrated burgundy vintages

#1 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 3rd, 2019, 6:51 pm

2013
2007
2008

What else?

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#2 Post by Kent Comley » September 3rd, 2019, 7:07 pm

I am not sure that 2007 is under rated, not one that I have ever loved. I really like 2008s and 2010s. 2001 was the classic under rated vintage at the time with lots of bargains on offer.
From a small sample set I have seen much to like in 2013 and 2014 and will back fill at the right price.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#3 Post by Nick Gangas » September 3rd, 2019, 7:08 pm

1972

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#4 Post by Howard Cooper » September 3rd, 2019, 7:12 pm

1972, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2016.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#5 Post by Dennis Atick » September 3rd, 2019, 7:14 pm

another vote for 1996. And 2000.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#6 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2019, 7:21 pm

1993 was the poster child until it wasn’t (although many, many Burgophiles knew better). And true for whites as well though that was not known for a long time.

2000 after that. Both red and white.

2001 I think was more under-appreciated in the shadow of 2002 than underrated. Meadows and Gilman and Kolm at least knew the reds were special basically from Day 1.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#7 Post by RyanC » September 3rd, 2019, 8:01 pm

2000 has gone from vastly underrated to properly rated to sort of overrated.

2008, 2013, and 2014 are underrated.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#8 Post by Mark Y » September 3rd, 2019, 8:47 pm

2001, 2008 so far.. 2007 has been just ok from a string of 2007s in a month or so..
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#9 Post by William Kelley » September 3rd, 2019, 8:48 pm

1997 whites in Chablis and the Mâconnais have given me great drinking this year, and Vincent Dauvissat was waxing lyrical about the harvest. But given pricing on the US retail market, it is hard to see any Burgundy vintage as actively "underrated" these days. Red 2013s would get my vote though, if I had to give one. Not convinced about 2008 reds as a whole: lots of very slow malolactics - as in 1996, cellars had to be heated and wines were often quite manipulated to get malo to go through. Hence the combination of elevated acidity and rather evolved, tired fruit tones in too many wines. Of course, it's the exceptions that make Burgundy interesting. And I love 2008 whites.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#10 Post by Brady Daniels » September 3rd, 2019, 9:01 pm

Personally, I think many 2012’s will drink better than more heralded vintages for at least a decade. Some are already adding a tertiary savory note. Old bones? Maybe not, but perhaps an early drinking vintage, similar to but superior than 2007.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#11 Post by Otto Forsberg » September 3rd, 2019, 9:27 pm

Are we talking about whites or reds? If whites, I fail to see how 2014 would be underrated, as it is consistently hailed as one of the greatest recent vintages of white Burg.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#12 Post by Jay Miller » September 4th, 2019, 12:30 am

1998 for reds, the secret is long out on 1993 unfortunately.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#13 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 4th, 2019, 3:04 am

I was going with reds. How is 16 underrated? My understanding is that it’s a top vintage and priced accordingly.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#14 Post by Howard Cooper » September 4th, 2019, 4:07 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 7:21 pm
1993 was the poster child until it wasn’t (although many, many Burgophiles knew better). And true for whites as well though that was not known for a long time.

One can still sometimes find 1993 Meursault Perrieres from Ampeau for sale (mostly from Envoyer) at a reasonable price. This is a spectacular wine.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#15 Post by Markus S » September 4th, 2019, 5:49 am

No one's going out on a limb and voting for 2011? pileon
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#16 Post by Scott Brunson » September 4th, 2019, 6:00 am

Markus S wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 5:49 am
No one's going out on a limb and voting for 2011? pileon
Q. What animals and insects prey upon the ladybug?
A. There are lots of animals and insects that prey upon ladybugs. Some insect-eating birds, like martins, swallows, swifts and crows. Insect-eating insects prey on ladybugs like dragonflies, assassin bugs, parasitic wasps, and ants. Other predators include tree frogs, anoles, parasites, fungus and mites. Ladybugs certainly have their shares of problems!
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#17 Post by Larry Link » September 4th, 2019, 6:16 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 7:12 pm
1972, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2016.
Good list, I’d add 1983, as it had the reputation for hail taint on release.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#18 Post by Greg K » September 4th, 2019, 6:18 am

Markus S wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 5:49 am
No one's going out on a limb and voting for 2011? pileon
I think some producers made really good 2011s, though obviously I understand your comment wasn’t serious.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#19 Post by John J » September 4th, 2019, 6:29 am

Vote for '96,'00, and definitely '08 for reds
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#20 Post by Art R » September 4th, 2019, 6:37 am

Agree with 1972, much better than the touted '71. Lots of excellent wines back when Burgundy was affordable.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#21 Post by Markus S » September 4th, 2019, 6:45 am

Greg K wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:18 am
Markus S wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 5:49 am
No one's going out on a limb and voting for 2011? pileon
I think some producers made really good 2011s, though obviously I understand your comment wasn’t serious.
Actually partly serious. I've had some good 11's and some I would rather call, um, not so good. This is, after market, there were some good prices on these and I don't think every wine was affected by the ladybug taint.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#22 Post by Greg K » September 4th, 2019, 7:07 am

Markus S wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:45 am
Greg K wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:18 am
Markus S wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 5:49 am
No one's going out on a limb and voting for 2011? pileon
I think some producers made really good 2011s, though obviously I understand your comment wasn’t serious.
Actually partly serious. I've had some good 11's and some I would rather call, um, not so good. This is, after market, there were some good prices on these and I don't think every wine was affected by the ladybug taint.
There are some producers whose 2011s I backfill aggressively, because the wines are drinking well now and they’re definitely underpriced. But I also think it’s very producer specific, so not a vintage to take punts with.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#23 Post by Markus S » September 4th, 2019, 7:21 am

Greg K wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 7:07 am
Markus S wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:45 am
Greg K wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:18 am


I think some producers made really good 2011s, though obviously I understand your comment wasn’t serious.
Actually partly serious. I've had some good 11's and some I would rather call, um, not so good. This is, after market, there were some good prices on these and I don't think every wine was affected by the ladybug taint.
There are some producers whose 2011s I backfill aggressively, because the wines are drinking well now and they’re definitely underpriced. But I also think it’s very producer specific, so not a vintage to take punts with.
Oh for sure.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#24 Post by Keith Levenberg » September 4th, 2019, 9:39 am

2001 was underrated by Pierre Rovani and overrated by everybody else. I dunno how many truly underrated vintages there really are. The PC thing to say about Burgundy is how each and every vintage is lovely in its own special little way.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#25 Post by Lee Short » September 4th, 2019, 9:46 am

William Kelley wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 8:48 pm
1997 whites in Chablis and the Mâconnais have given me great drinking this year, and Vincent Dauvissat was waxing lyrical about the harvest.
Huh. I had my last bottles of 97 Dauvissat Forest and Clos this year, and felt that both of them were past best. Past bottles have been better than the vintage's reputation implies, sure, but these bottles had seen better days, even if they were both still enjoyable. Sadly my last bottle of Clos in the cellar, and not about to be reloaded at the going rates.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#26 Post by William Kelley » September 4th, 2019, 9:54 am

Lee Short wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:46 am
William Kelley wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 8:48 pm
1997 whites in Chablis and the Mâconnais have given me great drinking this year, and Vincent Dauvissat was waxing lyrical about the harvest.
Huh. I had my last bottles of 97 Dauvissat Forest and Clos this year, and felt that both of them were past best. Past bottles have been better than the vintage's reputation implies, sure, but these bottles had seen better days, even if they were both still enjoyable. Sadly my last bottle of Clos in the cellar, and not about to be reloaded at the going rates.
A mag of 1997 Clos was epic a couple of months ago for me... But admittedly, I drink Dauvissat mainly in France. I think at least historically, the vineyard brands Dauvissat was bottled earlier than the wine for other markets and the Dauvissat-Camus label.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#27 Post by Victor Hong » September 4th, 2019, 10:12 am

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#28 Post by julianseersmartin » September 4th, 2019, 10:25 am

Keith Levenberg wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:39 am
The PC thing to say about Burgundy is how each and every vintage is lovely in its own special little way.
Hardly PC though - it's entirely true. Basically every vintage has its moment. Catching it at the right time is the hard part.

I don't get why people slog through a certain wine when it's not delivering. Seems quite prevalent in burgundy drinking for some weird reason.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#29 Post by Wade H » September 4th, 2019, 11:23 am

For red, '91 and '93 although as noted above '93 may not be underrated.

Although it was apparently an awful vintage for reds, I have found '92 to provide great value for white burgs - yet I never hear it talked up at all.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#30 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 4th, 2019, 12:16 pm

I’ve generally been buying all the 13 and 14 I can get because they are a reasonable deal compared to 15-16. The 12s are sometimes a good deal too.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#31 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 4th, 2019, 12:16 pm

William Kelley wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:54 am
Lee Short wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:46 am
William Kelley wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 8:48 pm
1997 whites in Chablis and the Mâconnais have given me great drinking this year, and Vincent Dauvissat was waxing lyrical about the harvest.
Huh. I had my last bottles of 97 Dauvissat Forest and Clos this year, and felt that both of them were past best. Past bottles have been better than the vintage's reputation implies, sure, but these bottles had seen better days, even if they were both still enjoyable. Sadly my last bottle of Clos in the cellar, and not about to be reloaded at the going rates.
A mag of 1997 Clos was epic a couple of months ago for me... But admittedly, I drink Dauvissat mainly in France. I think at least historically, the vineyard brands Dauvissat was bottled earlier than the wine for other markets and the Dauvissat-Camus label.
I have had mixed success with 1997 white Burgs the last couple years.

Opened a stunningly fresh bottle of 1997 Forest under the Dauvissat-Camus label (bought in Massachusetts) a few months ago. Very pure and clean.

1997 Boudin Fourchaume has decent flavor but was a bit sherried and tired.

I have one more 1997 Bongran. The last bottle was tired, but I’m hopeful as others have had better luck. I have it on tap for this fall. (By contrast, 1996 out of bottle and magnum the last couple years ago has been outstanding. No more in my cellar.)

Other than that in 1997 white Burg, I’m down to my last bottle of Fichet Tesson, also on tap for the right occasion.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#32 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 4th, 2019, 12:20 pm

Wade H wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 11:23 am
For red, '91 and '93 although as noted above '93 may not be underrated.

Although it was apparently an awful vintage for reds, I have found '92 to provide great value for white burgs - yet I never hear it talked up at all.
92 whites: Highly touted on release but the CW that they were fat and would be early drinkers has proven wrong for many wines.

Good 92 reds were underrated back in the day. Had a quite a few for cheap in the late 90s. Not sure how they are drinking now, but they are hard to find.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#33 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 4th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Anyone had lesser 01 grand crus lately?

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#34 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » September 4th, 2019, 1:16 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:39 am
2001 was underrated by Pierre Rovani and overrated by everybody else.
Can't agree that 2001 was almost uniformly overrated.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#35 Post by Matthew King » September 4th, 2019, 1:32 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 1:08 pm
Anyone had lesser 01 grand crus lately?

Not sure what your definition of lesser Grand Cru is ... but I have really enjoyed 01 Lambrays in past year.

On 01 top end, Gibourg Clos de Vougeot, Dujac CSD and Rousseau Clos de la Roche have been outstanding. My preference in that order ...
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#36 Post by Howard Cooper » September 4th, 2019, 4:06 pm

R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 1:16 pm
Keith Levenberg wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:39 am
2001 was underrated by Pierre Rovani and overrated by everybody else.
Can't agree that 2001 was almost uniformly overrated.
Agreed.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#37 Post by Howard Cooper » September 4th, 2019, 4:06 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 1:08 pm
Anyone had lesser 01 grand crus lately?
What is a lesser grand cru???? I have had a decent number of 2001 Grand Crus over the years, but am not sure how to answer your question.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#38 Post by Gerhard P. » September 5th, 2019, 3:48 am

I could write a long list ... but for now

2012 (better than 2013)
1992 (not generally, but there are some great wines)
1979 (often better than 1978)
...
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#39 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 5th, 2019, 4:03 am

Hm, I like both 12 and 13 but I feel like the pricing are much higher than 13.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#40 Post by Fred C » September 5th, 2019, 5:08 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 12:20 pm
Wade H wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 11:23 am
For red, '91 and '93 although as noted above '93 may not be underrated.

Although it was apparently an awful vintage for reds, I have found '92 to provide great value for white burgs - yet I never hear it talked up at all.
92 whites: Highly touted on release but the CW that they were fat and would be early drinkers has proven wrong for many wines.

Good 92 reds were underrated back in the day. Had a quite a few for cheap in the late 90s. Not sure how they are drinking now, but they are hard to find.
Pricing on 91 reds have exceeded 90 and 93 so it is difficult to say they are underrated. Also very difficult to find.

As for 92 reds I’ve had some excellent bottles from the top producers. Drinking perfectly right now for my tastes.

Regarding 01 reds, I feel they still need a little more time. 00s are drinking in the zone now and in some instances may have room to improve,
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#41 Post by maureen nelson » September 5th, 2019, 5:57 am

1979 (for reds, haven’t had whites recently enough to know).

I think “lesser grand crus” means cortons, charmes chambertin (and mazo) and maybe mazis and latricieres - at least that is what i think the OP was referring to.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#42 Post by joz€f p1nxten » September 5th, 2019, 6:41 am

For me 2007. Haven't been wowed so far by any 2008s.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#43 Post by Jay Miller » September 5th, 2019, 9:41 am

Fred C wrote:
September 5th, 2019, 5:08 am
Wade H wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 11:23 am
For red, '91 and '93 although as noted above '93 may not be underrated.

Although it was apparently an awful vintage for reds, I have found '92 to provide great value for white burgs - yet I never hear it talked up at all.
Pricing on 91 reds have exceeded 90 and 93 so it is difficult to say they are underrated. Also very difficult to find.
I guess to some extent it depends on whether we're limiting ourselves to vintages that are underrated currently or ones that have been underrated in the past.

1991s were underrated following 1990 thought eventually many (esp. in the CdN) turned out much better than the preceding vintage. As with 1993 that's unfortunately no longer much of a secret.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#44 Post by Gerhard P. » September 5th, 2019, 10:03 am

For me 1993 is different ... I think it was slightly overrated early on - and still is. It's a good to very good vintage, but not a really great one, although there are some great wines.
(all imho)
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#45 Post by Keith Levenberg » September 5th, 2019, 6:05 pm

julianseersmartin wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 10:25 am
Keith Levenberg wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:39 am
The PC thing to say about Burgundy is how each and every vintage is lovely in its own special little way.
Hardly PC though - it's entirely true. Basically every vintage has its moment. Catching it at the right time is the hard part.
Nah, it's silly. There are still plenty years you can sit out and not miss anything important. And even some that are just bad. Regardless, the point isn't whether the idea is true or not. The point is that as long as that's what everyone's saying, there ain't never gonna be an "underrated" vintage. Welcome to Lake Wobegon, where all vintages are above average.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#46 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 5th, 2019, 6:34 pm

Gerhard P. wrote:
September 5th, 2019, 10:03 am
For me 1993 is different ... I think it was slightly overrated early on - and still is. It's a good to very good vintage, but not a really great one, although there are some great wines.
(all imho)
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#47 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 5th, 2019, 6:48 pm

Yeah lesser I meant chapelle chambertin, mazis, etc.

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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#48 Post by Michael Lewis » September 5th, 2019, 7:38 pm

Personally I think 2010 is underrated. Of course, everyone loves it, but it may well be the greatest vintage of my lifetime, and I am not sure it is being recognized as such.
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#49 Post by Craig G » September 5th, 2019, 8:21 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
September 5th, 2019, 6:05 pm
julianseersmartin wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 10:25 am
Keith Levenberg wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 9:39 am
The PC thing to say about Burgundy is how each and every vintage is lovely in its own special little way.
Hardly PC though - it's entirely true. Basically every vintage has its moment. Catching it at the right time is the hard part.
Nah, it's silly. There are still plenty years you can sit out and not miss anything important. And even some that are just bad. Regardless, the point isn't whether the idea is true or not. The point is that as long as that's what everyone's saying, there ain't never gonna be an "underrated" vintage. Welcome to Lake Wobegon, where all vintages are above average.
My opinion is that both of these things are true in their own way. If you follow a good producer year in and year out, you may well appreciate every vintage in its own way. If you are cherry picking vintage/producer combinations, then you may as well choose to sit out entire vintages too.
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Thomas Keim
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Re: Underrated burgundy vintages

#50 Post by Thomas Keim » September 5th, 2019, 9:38 pm

Art R wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 6:37 am
Agree with 1972, much better than the touted '71. Lots of excellent wines back when Burgundy was affordable.
Cut my teeth on the 69/70/71/72 vintages. I remember the 1970s as being very pretty wines at that 6-8 year age. Had a lot of '70 Hospice de Beaune wines available at very cheap prices back then (I must have drunk 2-3 cases of the Corton Dr. Peste '70) -
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