Oregon 2019 growing season update?

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rfelthoven
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Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#1 Post by rfelthoven » August 19th, 2019, 9:19 am

Hey all -- just curious how things are looking for 2019 thus far.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#2 Post by Brian Glas » August 19th, 2019, 7:41 pm

Seems like its been cooler than recent Summers.

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#3 Post by Todd Hamina » August 19th, 2019, 8:02 pm

Cooler than the last few years. Muggy, some folks have battled powdery mildew. Set is slightly less than previous recent vintages. Harvest looks like late September...
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#4 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 19th, 2019, 11:23 pm

Todd Hamina wrote:
August 19th, 2019, 8:02 pm
Cooler than the last few years. Muggy, some folks have battled powdery mildew. Set is slightly less than previous recent vintages. Harvest looks like late September...
+1
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#5 Post by Richard T r i m p i » August 20th, 2019, 5:48 am

Once upon a time, wasn't harvest in October? These days, late September almost sounds slightly later than normal. IIRC weren't people picking in August during one or two of the recent hot years?

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#6 Post by Jim Anderson » August 20th, 2019, 5:54 am

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
August 19th, 2019, 11:23 pm
Todd Hamina wrote:
August 19th, 2019, 8:02 pm
Cooler than the last few years. Muggy, some folks have battled powdery mildew. Set is slightly less than previous recent vintages. Harvest looks like late September...
+1
The PM situation is quite real. It’s a battle we have not had to fight at this intensity in quite some time. Beyond that though it has been a nice season for the ripening of PN. It’s not been terribly hot. The hottest days of the year were in May. We definitely have stuff that will come off before 9/15 (younger vines on a steep, rocky slope and a couple other places that are pretty warm). The bulk of the picking I think will occur from then to the 30th with only some higher elevation/cooler sites drifting into October. Anything can happen still. Just trying to get through bottling before we get to picking. Might be a tie.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#7 Post by Todd Hamina » August 20th, 2019, 8:24 am

So I down played the powdery mildew problem that's true. Some people are getting their asses handed to them out of bad luck, misfortune and mismanagement...
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#8 Post by PeterH » August 20th, 2019, 9:32 am

We've been noticing the high humidity in Seattle, and maple trees all over town are covered with powdery mildew.

That brings up an interesting note about the effect of climate change in the PNW. Back 30-40 years ago I used to think of the future weather of the PNW as becoming more like Napa/Sonoma. About five years ago projections started being publicized calling for warmer and much more humid summers, wetter winters, and lower snow levels. That is not the change I was hoping for, but it seems to be creeping in already.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#9 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 20th, 2019, 11:20 am

Richard T r i m p i wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 5:48 am
Once upon a time, wasn't harvest in October? These days, late September almost sounds slightly later than normal. IIRC weren't people picking in August during one or two of the recent hot years?

RT
I looked up my pick dates for most of my vintages. When you pick isn’t really what defines the nature of a vintage, as much as a combination of canopy strength, crop load, and late season temperatures.

2002: Late Sept-Early October
2003: 9/24-9/28
2005: 9/27-10/18
2006: 9/25-9/30
2007: 9/27-10/16
2008: 10/14-10/29
2009: 10/7-10/18
2010: 10/19-10/22
2012: 10/2-10/11
2014: 9/12-9/21
2015: 9/11-9/16
2016: 9/5, 9/14-9/16

For me 2003, 2006, and 2009 are all “over ripe” compared to 2014 and 2015. All were picked significantly later.


It also bears noting that when I started “hang time” was considered mandatory, and more was usually considered better. Water adds were also pretty common.

In general, I feel there is a move away from that type of picking decision. 2008 and 2010 sent me a message loud and clear that more hang time was not better “flavor”.

I won’t speak for others but is has been a long time since I picked at the last available window, and the wines are better for it. My 2017 Pinot Noirs run from 12.8-13.7% abv, and remind me more of
2005 than any other vintage, but I was very early to pull the trigger on picking that year.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#10 Post by Chris Seiber » August 20th, 2019, 11:22 am

I think from reading the board recently, the vintage is going to be ruined by a combination of global warming and odors and pesticides from adjoining pot vineyards.

Best advice is to backfill.

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#11 Post by Todd Hamina » August 20th, 2019, 12:54 pm

Guess I'm a late picker...
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#12 Post by Mattstolz » August 20th, 2019, 2:25 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 11:22 am
I think from reading the board recently, the vintage is going to be ruined by a combination of global warming and odors and pesticides from adjoining pot vineyards.

Best advice is to backfill.

pileon
Elouon is already looking at contracts it can sign so it can later reneg on them for the 2020 growing season.

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#13 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 20th, 2019, 3:22 pm

Todd Hamina wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 12:54 pm
Guess I'm a late picker...
Ya think?

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#14 Post by Todd Hamina » August 20th, 2019, 6:29 pm

I always think I'm an appropriate picker.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#15 Post by Richard T r i m p i » August 20th, 2019, 6:34 pm

Todd Hamina wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 6:29 pm
I always think I'm an appropriate picker.
Unless it's a 2006 style panic picking.

BTW, excellent data Marcus. Thanks for sharing!

RT

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#16 Post by Todd Hamina » August 20th, 2019, 6:52 pm

I did my utmost to slow the picking decision in 06 at Maysara, and then fermented in any vessel that I could find. Total shit show
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#17 Post by rfelthoven » August 21st, 2019, 9:18 am

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. Sounds like another year with decent conditions.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#18 Post by Todd Hamina » August 21st, 2019, 9:21 am

The fat lady still has to sing Ron.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#19 Post by Jim Anderson » August 21st, 2019, 9:44 am

rfelthoven wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 9:18 am
Thanks to everyone who chimed in. Sounds like another year with decent conditions.
It’s always the last 45 days. We’re on like Day 1.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#20 Post by Brian Glas » August 21st, 2019, 10:22 pm

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 11:20 am

I looked up my pick dates for most of my vintages. When you pick isn’t really what defines the nature of a vintage, as much as a combination of canopy strength, crop load, and late season temperatures.

2002: Late Sept-Early October
2003: 9/24-9/28
2005: 9/27-10/18
2006: 9/25-9/30
2007: 9/27-10/16
2008: 10/14-10/29
2009: 10/7-10/18
2010: 10/19-10/22
2012: 10/2-10/11
2014: 9/12-9/21
2015: 9/11-9/16
2016: 9/5, 9/14-9/16

For me 2003, 2006, and 2009 are all “over ripe” compared to 2014 and 2015. All were picked significantly later.


It also bears noting that when I started “hang time” was considered mandatory, and more was usually considered better. Water adds were also pretty common.
Wasn't 2009 one of the hottest years in the last 10? Seems like it was in Seattle. I thought the wines would have shriveled up into raisins by October.

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#21 Post by Richard T r i m p i » August 22nd, 2019, 5:48 am

Brian Glas wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 10:22 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote:2009: 10/7-10/18
For me 2003, 2006, and 2009 are all “over ripe” compared to 2014 and 2015. All were picked significantly later.
Wasn't 2009 one of the hottest years in the last 10? Seems like it was in Seattle. I thought the wines would have shriveled up into raisins by October.
Nearly all of the 2009's I tasted had a resinous ripe quality that convinced me to buy very few...almost none.

That said, Jim Anderson has a surprisingly good touch with ripe vintages. He might even claim that 2003, 2006, and 2009 were among his best.

RT

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#22 Post by James Lyon » August 22nd, 2019, 7:10 am

Richard T r i m p i wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 5:48 am
Brian Glas wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 10:22 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote:2009: 10/7-10/18
For me 2003, 2006, and 2009 are all “over ripe” compared to 2014 and 2015. All were picked significantly later.
Wasn't 2009 one of the hottest years in the last 10? Seems like it was in Seattle. I thought the wines would have shriveled up into raisins by October.
Nearly all of the 2009's I tasted had a resinous ripe quality that convinced me to buy very few...almost none.

That said, Jim Anderson has a surprisingly good touch with ripe vintages. He might even claim that 2003, 2006, and 2009 were among his best.

RT
I enjoyed a bottle of 2006 Patricia Green Old Vine Estate Pinot Noir a few weeks ago. It was great and it could probably go another 5 - 10 years or more.

Back on thread topic, I received a note from Elk Cove last weekend and they mentioned the cooler weather and rain this summer in Oregon.

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#23 Post by John Peacock » August 22nd, 2019, 7:49 am

Brian Glas wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 10:22 pm

Wasn't 2009 one of the hottest years in the last 10? Seems like it was in Seattle. I thought the wines would have shriveled up into raisins by October.
Picking date also depends on flower/bloom/fruit set dates. If it was a later fruit set, that would push harvest dates out, even in a very hot year.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#24 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 22nd, 2019, 8:20 am

John Peacock wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 7:49 am
Brian Glas wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 10:22 pm

Wasn't 2009 one of the hottest years in the last 10? Seems like it was in Seattle. I thought the wines would have shriveled up into raisins by October.
Picking date also depends on flower/bloom/fruit set dates. If it was a later fruit set, that would push harvest dates out, even in a very hot year.
Yes, that’s the gist of my pick dates as well.

In 2009, we had a bit later bloom and quite a bit of heat in early September that faded towards the end of the month. Cooler sites like Whistling Ridge, and I didn’t thin in 09, were able to hang until early October helping with flavors. While I will pull the trigger earlier if the fruit is ready these days-time on the vine does matter.

For me, I split the difference in 09. With Whistling Ridge, the 09s are beginning to come out of the shell(10 years is pretty typical) and the Souris and Whistling Ridge are showing well. The Winter’s Hill bottling is solid but with a rather robust abv. Not my thing.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#25 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 22nd, 2019, 8:57 am

Todd Hamina wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 6:52 pm
I did my utmost to slow the picking decision in 06 at Maysara, and then fermented in any vessel that I could find. Total shit show
Lol...

Among my favorite stories from my career. I went to sample Momtazi that fall, walked through pulled my clusters and headed back to the winery. Crushed the bag and saw 21.8 brix and pH 3.1. No hurry.

Next day Todd calls me and says I need to pick the block...needless to say, I was annoyed. He was pretty sure. So I told him I would drive out and sample again. I fumed out to Momtazi, walked the block and called Todd to see if he could pick it the next day...that was 2006.

We picked Bishop Creek in 2006 in 4 days. Day 1: Pinot Noir 23.5 Brix
Day 2: Pinot Noir 25.5 Brix
Day 3: Pinot Noir 27.0 Brix
Day 4: Pinot Gris-don’t ask don’t tell

So while Todd is often the last guy out, he is also an appropriate picker.

Of course the fun at Momtazi was just beginning. Todd agreed to pick my block the next day. My crew was ready to go, and we cleaned and prepped waiting for fruit. Then we had lunch, and we cleaned some more, played basketball a bit, and generally messed around. Then we had dinner, and played “guess which ditch our fruit is in?”. At 9:15pm the truck showed up. We unloaded and processed. Fruit was 88-92F and bubbling with fermentation as is went across the sorting table.

I fumed all night, and called Todd the next day to bitch. He in his efficient manner told me that had had 30+ tons to pick and 8 guys showed up. As we were talking, he had 40 more to pick and 3 guys that morning.

Shit show of a vintage. But perhaps the most important learning experience of my career.

Both Todd and I were done with Momtazi the next year. No disrespect to Moe Momtazi or the vineyard. Labor has continued to be a challenge over the years and crews for picking have been a huge issue for many, particularly in 2013. I was very aware that my production was too small for them to be a focus. I shifted to smaller vineyards where a small crew can get my fruit picked. Temperance Hill is an exception but they have their own full time crew for picks.

I also started to view canopy strength as something to be managed, rather than encouraged. 2006 had very large clusters, and a good set. But we still moved more than 1 full Brix per day. That pace is well beyond the pace of flavor development, and water adds aren’t a long term solution. We took Bishop Creek to no tilling, and later expanded that to all of the sites that I work with. I also started experimenting with a higher level of leaf pulling and doing it earlier. The results have been excellent(IMO), we pick at lower Brix with good flavor development, better tannin quality, and a better maturity of acidity. 2017 Whistling Ridge Pinots range from 12.8% abv to 13.2%, and flavors are very old school. At IPNC this year I was really disappointed with the plethora of purple dense Pinot Noirs. Were they impressive? Yes. Were they interesting? Not to me.

The only down side is that, with the early nitrogen competition, the plants don’t look as vibrantly healthy(good thing Whistling Ridge is only visible to Jim Anderson and Mike Etzel).

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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#26 Post by Vincent Fritzsche » August 22nd, 2019, 11:08 am

Good thread. Trends have definitely moved to earlier picking, so ‘09 and ‘06 pick dates would be much earlier had I to do them over. The idea was that you’ll get green flavors early but I’ve come to see it more like cooking something rare or al dente. Done but not too done.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#27 Post by Todd Hamina » August 22nd, 2019, 11:55 am

It's easier to pick early if you know that the fruit will visit the destemmer. If you are going to whole cluster ferment, then you have to wait for the seeds to ripen. And then ignore every number you measure.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#28 Post by Todd Hamina » August 22nd, 2019, 12:05 pm

Marcus, don't forget the bit about us then shorting your order and subbing it out with different fruit...

It's funny now, but for me coming from five vintages at Patton Valley (where we shared the vineyard crew with Beaux Freres) which always came off with impeccable precision. Then switching to the 29 different clients and always some fiasco at Maysara/Momtazi. Believe me when I say that it was an easy decision to venture out on my own.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#29 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 22nd, 2019, 12:19 pm

Todd Hamina wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 11:55 am
It's easier to pick early if you know that the fruit will visit the destemmer. If you are going to whole cluster ferment, then you have to wait for the seeds to ripen. And then ignore every number you measure.
Mmm...we both tend to hit the stems pretty hard. When I sell my Armbruster it will definitely say “lightly used”.

About half the production is 100% whole cluster, and nothing is below 30%. So only about 20-25% of my fruit hits the destemmer. That said, by restricting canopy, I believe we are getting physiological changes including seed ripening, earlier and at lower Brix.

That’s the best part about Pinot Noir. We each know exactly the right way to do it(even if it’s completely different) and then it turns out that the vineyards are the real difference maker.
Last edited by Marcus Goodfellow on August 22nd, 2019, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#30 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 22nd, 2019, 12:23 pm

Todd Hamina wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 12:05 pm
Marcus, don't forget the bit about us then shorting your order and subbing it out with different fruit...

It's funny now, but for me coming from five vintages at Patton Valley (where we shared the vineyard crew with Beaux Freres) which always came off with impeccable precision. Then switching to the 29 different clients and always some fiasco at Maysara/Momtazi. Believe me when I say that it was an easy decision to venture out on my own.
Yeah, I hear this. 2006 wasn’t the only year that happened.
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Re: Oregon 2019 growing season update?

#31 Post by Todd Hamina » August 22nd, 2019, 5:45 pm

I believe you.
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