2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

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Jonathan Sirot
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2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#1 Post by Jonathan Sirot » August 12th, 2019, 12:45 pm

First of all big time Krug fan here. Enough that I flew to West Coast for an amazing offline vertical. I have bought a bunch of 96 years ago and happy I did. Picked up 3 of the 04 for probably 220 a btl plus tax locally which was lowest I could find.

Now a trusted retailer I do business with online is offering them on sale for $209.99 . Pondering whether to buy 3 more or save my funds for some of Envoyers yet to be offered specials. Any thoughts?

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#2 Post by c fu » August 12th, 2019, 12:55 pm

Seems the wine is being cleared out for the next vintage release. I stocked up at a little below that price. 04 krug is awesome.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#3 Post by Nathan Smyth » August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm

Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

In theory, if, on January 1st, the Fed loaned you $100, at an interest rate of -5%, then circa December 31st of that year, you would only owe the Fed $95.

And circa December 31st of the following year, you'd only owe the Fed (0.95) * (0.95) = $90.25.

And so on & so forth.

I imagine the commercial banks would implement it thusly: You deposit $100 in your savings account on January 1st, and thereafter you don't touch the account at all, for the entire year, but then circa December 31st of that year, suddenly you'd have only $95 remaining in your savings account?

But I'm still having a great deal of difficulty thinking about this [other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided].

BOTTOM LINE: Can you pay the Fed in Krug?

What if it's heat damaged?

Or corked?

Or prematurely-oxidized?

Will the Fed Police come knocking at your door?

And what's the Fed's relationship with the IMW?

Are there IMWs on the payroll of the Fed Police?

[Maybe I should shut up before I give them any bright ideas...]

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#4 Post by C Chen » August 12th, 2019, 2:46 pm

Krugs > Envoyer specials
curt1S ch3N
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#5 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

In theory, if, on January 1st, the Fed loaned you $100, at an interest rate of -5%, then circa December 31st of that year, you would only owe the Fed $95.

And circa December 31st of the following year, you'd only owe the Fed (0.95) * (0.95) = $90.25.

And so on & so forth.

I imagine the commercial banks would implement it thusly: You deposit $100 in your savings account on January 1st, and thereafter you don't touch the account at all, for the entire year, but then circa December 31st of that year, suddenly you'd have only $95 remaining in your savings account?

But I'm still having a great deal of difficulty thinking about this [other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided].

BOTTOM LINE: Can you pay the Fed in Krug?

What if it's heat damaged?

Or corked?

Or prematurely-oxidized?

Will the Fed Police come knocking at your door?

And what's the Fed's relationship with the IMW?

Are there IMWs on the payroll of the Fed Police?

[Maybe I should shut up before I give them any bright ideas...]
WTF?
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#6 Post by Greg K » August 12th, 2019, 4:19 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
[other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided]
Actually laughed out loud at this one. [cheers.gif]
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#7 Post by YLee » August 12th, 2019, 4:34 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm
Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

In theory, if, on January 1st, the Fed loaned you $100, at an interest rate of -5%, then circa December 31st of that year, you would only owe the Fed $95.

And circa December 31st of the following year, you'd only owe the Fed (0.95) * (0.95) = $90.25.

And so on & so forth.

I imagine the commercial banks would implement it thusly: You deposit $100 in your savings account on January 1st, and thereafter you don't touch the account at all, for the entire year, but then circa December 31st of that year, suddenly you'd have only $95 remaining in your savings account?

But I'm still having a great deal of difficulty thinking about this [other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided].

BOTTOM LINE: Can you pay the Fed in Krug?

What if it's heat damaged?

Or corked?

Or prematurely-oxidized?

Will the Fed Police come knocking at your door?

And what's the Fed's relationship with the IMW?

Are there IMWs on the payroll of the Fed Police?

[Maybe I should shut up before I give them any bright ideas...]
WTF?
[rofl.gif]
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#8 Post by R. Frankel » August 12th, 2019, 6:01 pm

I would be tempted at that price. Who is the retailer? I like Krug a lot, and bought a bunch of the MV 160 (2004 base). Loved it. There is some good material that year.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#9 Post by Brad England » August 12th, 2019, 6:06 pm

I want to drink what Nathan's drinking.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#10 Post by Doug Ackerman » August 12th, 2019, 6:13 pm

What Brad said.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#11 Post by alan weinberg » August 12th, 2019, 6:14 pm

Brad England wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:06 pm
I want to drink what Nathan's drinking.
brave.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#12 Post by Marcus Dean » August 12th, 2019, 6:51 pm

Brad England wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:06 pm
I want to drop the same acid Nathan dropped.
FIFY

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#13 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » August 12th, 2019, 6:58 pm

R. Frankel wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:01 pm
I would be tempted at that price. Who is the retailer? I like Krug a lot, and bought a bunch of the MV 160 (2004 base). Loved it. There is some good material that year.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#14 Post by alan weinberg » August 12th, 2019, 7:04 pm

it’s a solid wine. It will appreciate in price. Doubt it will sell for much less. Not a tough decision if you have some $ and like Krug.

What’s the next vintage?

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#15 Post by alan weinberg » August 12th, 2019, 7:06 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:58 pm
R. Frankel wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:01 pm
I would be tempted at that price. Who is the retailer? I like Krug a lot, and bought a bunch of the MV 160 (2004 base). Loved it. There is some good material that year.
grand vin wine merchants
US? There’s a British firm by same name. US store has the 04 Krug at $258.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#16 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » August 12th, 2019, 7:19 pm

2004krug is the code for the 209

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#17 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » August 12th, 2019, 7:30 pm

champagne.gif

POtY!
Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

In theory, if, on January 1st, the Fed loaned you $100, at an interest rate of -5%, then circa December 31st of that year, you would only owe the Fed $95.

And circa December 31st of the following year, you'd only owe the Fed (0.95) * (0.95) = $90.25.

And so on & so forth.

I imagine the commercial banks would implement it thusly: You deposit $100 in your savings account on January 1st, and thereafter you don't touch the account at all, for the entire year, but then circa December 31st of that year, suddenly you'd have only $95 remaining in your savings account?

But I'm still having a great deal of difficulty thinking about this [other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided].

BOTTOM LINE: Can you pay the Fed in Krug?

What if it's heat damaged?

Or corked?

Or prematurely-oxidized?

Will the Fed Police come knocking at your door?

And what's the Fed's relationship with the IMW?

Are there IMWs on the payroll of the Fed Police?

[Maybe I should shut up before I give them any bright ideas...]
Cheers,
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#18 Post by JaredT » August 12th, 2019, 7:34 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 7:19 pm
2004krug is the code for the 209
Thanks. Just went in for 6 bottles.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#19 Post by Rich Brown » August 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm
Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

In theory, if, on January 1st, the Fed loaned you $100, at an interest rate of -5%, then circa December 31st of that year, you would only owe the Fed $95.

And circa December 31st of the following year, you'd only owe the Fed (0.95) * (0.95) = $90.25.

And so on & so forth.

I imagine the commercial banks would implement it thusly: You deposit $100 in your savings account on January 1st, and thereafter you don't touch the account at all, for the entire year, but then circa December 31st of that year, suddenly you'd have only $95 remaining in your savings account?

But I'm still having a great deal of difficulty thinking about this [other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided].

BOTTOM LINE: Can you pay the Fed in Krug?

What if it's heat damaged?

Or corked?

Or prematurely-oxidized?

Will the Fed Police come knocking at your door?

And what's the Fed's relationship with the IMW?

Are there IMWs on the payroll of the Fed Police?

[Maybe I should shut up before I give them any bright ideas...]
WTF?
Ha ha! Literally was going to post the exact same thing. Just wow.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#20 Post by Greg K » August 12th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Rich Brown wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm
Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

In theory, if, on January 1st, the Fed loaned you $100, at an interest rate of -5%, then circa December 31st of that year, you would only owe the Fed $95.

And circa December 31st of the following year, you'd only owe the Fed (0.95) * (0.95) = $90.25.

And so on & so forth.

I imagine the commercial banks would implement it thusly: You deposit $100 in your savings account on January 1st, and thereafter you don't touch the account at all, for the entire year, but then circa December 31st of that year, suddenly you'd have only $95 remaining in your savings account?

But I'm still having a great deal of difficulty thinking about this [other than that the entirety of statutory & Common Law would have to be rewritten to accommodate negative interest rates, and all existing contracts would have to be voided].

BOTTOM LINE: Can you pay the Fed in Krug?

What if it's heat damaged?

Or corked?

Or prematurely-oxidized?

Will the Fed Police come knocking at your door?

And what's the Fed's relationship with the IMW?

Are there IMWs on the payroll of the Fed Police?

[Maybe I should shut up before I give them any bright ideas...]
WTF?
Ha ha! Literally was going to post the exact same thing. Just wow.
You were going to post the same thing as Nathan? Impressive!
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#21 Post by Tom Reddick » August 12th, 2019, 8:12 pm

2004 Krug is exceptional- and so is Mesnil by the way. And the really great thing about many 2004s is that they are very showy in youth and- at least so far- appear as though they will drink well most of their lives. So while the customary wait will be worth it, it will not be compulsory and I see 2004 not only as a great vintage, but one with a very broad drinking window.

I went very deep on many 2004s for this reason- and I would be backing up the truck on Krug at that price.

EDIT- in case helpful, here are my TNs for the 2004 Krug and 2004 Krug Clos du Mesnil from this spring,

2004 Krug

Served immediately after opening

good bright champagne color, a grand nose of primary fruit and mousse, toast, on the palate showing a dramatic breadth, mousse evident but the focus here is an intense core of sweet apples, pear and dark berries leading into a long and very full finish, after an hour a racy grapefruit note develops, this is already sensationally good- in fact probably the best suited vintage for early consumption I have seen in quite a long time- but it will surely get even better.

*(****), 2024++

2004 Krug Clos du Mesnil

Served immediately after opening

bright champagne color, soaring nose, brioche and a particularly intense and tightly focused note of apple, a rich bright mousse already evident, a light citrus note and an almost peppery playful dash of acids, on the palate a primary baby but already quite beautiful with the broad and showy character of the vintage, apples, a bit of pear and citrus, long fine finish that builds beautifully, with time a sweet primary fruit comes into play and the mousse- while still not fully exposed- takes on a seductive dark tone, a really lovely Mesnil that promises to be generous and showy in time. Already quite approachable, but I personally prefer to lock this one away for a while.

**(***), 2030-2050+
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#22 Post by Craig G » August 13th, 2019, 12:01 am

Brad England wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:06 pm
I want to drink what Nathan's drinking.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#23 Post by Scott Brunson » August 13th, 2019, 5:48 am

Greg K wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 8:09 pm
Rich Brown wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm


WTF?
Ha ha! Literally was going to post the exact same thing. Just wow.
You were going to post the same thing as Nathan? Impressive!
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#24 Post by Rich Brown » August 13th, 2019, 9:12 am

Greg K wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 8:09 pm
Rich Brown wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm


WTF?
Ha ha! Literally was going to post the exact same thing. Just wow.
You were going to post the same thing as Nathan? Impressive!
Ha - Exactly! We were hanging out yesterday and he posted before I could
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#25 Post by lleichtman » August 13th, 2019, 12:46 pm

The 209.99 price is not off putting as this is an amazingly good wine. Don't know what any of that other crap was about though.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#26 Post by Nathan Smyth » August 13th, 2019, 2:01 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm
WTF?
Morgan Stanley (MS.N) analysts said on Monday that they now expect the U.S. Federal Reserve to cut rates in September and then again in October.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1V21SX

When you're asking yourself what to do with your $209.99, you've gotta be thinking in terms of Zero [Percent] Interest Rates, and then Negative Interest Rates.

Zero [Percent] Interest Rates are deployed in order to flood the economy with Fake Money, so as to maintain asset prices in what would otherwise be a deflationary price cycle [because with deflation, none of the standard business models nor legal contracts make any sense anymore, and everyone wants out, and quits partaking of economic transactions, and refuses en mas to abide by their contracts, and the entire Usurious Industrial Complex vanishes overnight, which of course is forbidden to happen].

To the best of my knowledge, we've never had Negative Interest Rates in the United States [I don't know whether the idea was ever broached with FDR], but the demographic problems in Europe are now so severe that some of the European banks have already started experimenting with the Negatives.

Anyway, there's a growing consensus that the World Economy probably entered a recession circa the beginning of this summer, and after all the Fake Money which The Fed pumped into the economy circa 2008-2016, I don't whether pumping Fake Money is gonna do any good anymore.

So if you really care about your $209.99, then you ought to ask yourself what $209.99 might be worth in the next 2 to 5 to 10 years [which might also depend on how you store the $209.99, especially if your Savings Account were to start declining in nominal value, even though you hadn't actually made any withdrawals].

And, again, if you care about your $209.99, then you've gotta keep reminding yourself that the Champagne AOC seems to be able to pump out a nearly infinite supply of the bubbly stuff every year.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#27 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 13th, 2019, 2:26 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 13th, 2019, 2:01 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 2:51 pm
WTF?
Morgan Stanley (MS.N) analysts said on Monday that they now expect the U.S. Federal Reserve to cut rates in September and then again in October.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1V21SX

When you're asking yourself what to do with your $209.99, you've gotta be thinking in terms of Zero [Percent] Interest Rates, and then Negative Interest Rates.

Zero [Percent] Interest Rates are deployed in order to flood the economy with Fake Money, so as to maintain asset prices in what would otherwise be a deflationary price cycle [because with deflation, none of the standard business models nor legal contracts make any sense anymore, and everyone wants out, and quits partaking of economic transactions, and refuses en mas to abide by their contracts, and the entire Usurious Industrial Complex vanishes overnight, which of course is forbidden to happen].

To the best of my knowledge, we've never had Negative Interest Rates in the United States [I don't know whether the idea was ever broached with FDR], but the demographic problems in Europe are now so severe that some of the European banks have already started experimenting with the Negatives.

Anyway, there's a growing consensus that the World Economy probably entered a recession circa the beginning of this summer, and after all the Fake Money which The Fed pumped into the economy circa 2008-2016, I don't whether pumping Fake Money is gonna do any good anymore.

So if you really care about your $209.99, then you ought to ask yourself what $209.99 might be worth in the next 2 to 5 to 10 years [which might also depend on how you store the $209.99, especially if your Savings Account were to start declining in nominal value, even though you hadn't actually made any withdrawals].

And, again, if you care about your $209.99, then you've gotta keep reminding yourself that the Champagne AOC seems to be able to pump out a nearly infinite supply of the bubbly stuff every year.
WTF?
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#28 Post by mark rudner » August 13th, 2019, 2:43 pm

you got me neal
snorted out loud at the second wtf
cheers

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#29 Post by Rich Brown » August 13th, 2019, 3:23 pm

mark rudner wrote:
August 13th, 2019, 2:43 pm
you got me neal
snorted out loud at the second wtf
cheers
I laughed out loud as well. That was really good.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#30 Post by T. Williams » August 13th, 2019, 3:27 pm

This is a good one.

Nathan is usually just good for warning people who’ve done nothing wrong about losing professional licenses for (full in the blank).
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#31 Post by crickey » August 13th, 2019, 5:58 pm

If you ignore the fake money ranting, he's actually pointing to a real issue. If you believe there is now a deflationary environment, you are better off holding your money and buying later when prices are cheaper. If everyone does so (because it makes sense), you end up in a deflationary cycle, which is catastrophe. To head off the deflationary cycle, central banks try to inflate money. One method to do so is to lower (nominal) interest rates, even into negative territory, to try to spur inflation. Negative interest rates make it so that it costs money to hold money, and thus induce you to spend or invest the money, which is supposed to counteract the deflationary cycle. The problem is if negative interest rates do not successfully inflate and deflation continues. Then you are in a lose-lose situation: it cost you both to hold (in a bank, which is a kind of lending, so you would be "earning," i.e. paying a negative rate) and to spend money. The solution is to stuff cash in your mattress.

Back to the $210 Krug, if you believe the economy is deflationary, you are better off holding the money and wait for the continued drop in the price of the Krug. However, if nominal interest rates are negative (or nominally positive, but really negative), you might want to buy the Krug now. It depends on where the costs cross, but both are based on projections, so where they might cross, and thus whether it makes sense to go out and buy the Krug at $210, is uncertain. The fact that I actually bought the Krug at $210 might mean that (a) I do not think that the economy is deflationary, (b) I believe the economy is mildly deflationary, but I would rather buy it now at $210 rather than wait for it to drop further, (c) in a variation on (b), this was a one-time windfall opportunity to buy it cheap because the "real" clearing price is much higher, and even if the economy is deflationary I won't see that price again for a long time, (d) the market for 2004 Krug is sufficiently disintegrated from the greater economy that even if asset values in general were to decline, the price of 2004 Krug will stay high or (e) I suck at math.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#32 Post by Craig G » August 13th, 2019, 7:13 pm

If the price of Krug drops, you can get just as hammered on it. In that sense it’s a deflation hedge.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#33 Post by Ian S » August 13th, 2019, 7:20 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 13th, 2019, 2:26 pm

WTF?
Neal, I think a slight variation of that would be a better response to Nathan, i.e. STFU. [snort.gif]

Hey Nathan, what if Jonathan buys it and drinks it immediately? That should eliminate his potential losses since there's probably not any negative interest rate on pee.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#34 Post by Al Osterheld » August 13th, 2019, 7:57 pm

Well. No matter what happens, you'll want something to drink. So, buy what you want to drink. The price in the future may be higher or lower, just buy something you will continue to want to drink. If the economy tanks hard, Nathan may be drinking pruno while lording it over the poor fools drinking 2004 Krug. But, is that the worst outcome?

-Al

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#35 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 14th, 2019, 8:25 am

It ends up as deciding whether I would prefer Cristal 2008 or the Krug 2004. I think the Krug is excellent, but potentially the Cristal is better.

I drank my last bottle of the 2002 Cristal recently, and did not feel like repurchasing at double the money. But the 2008 is potentially as good or better, so for me it is a no brainer.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#36 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 14th, 2019, 8:26 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:25 am
It ends up as deciding whether I would prefer Cristal 2008 or the Krug 2004. I think the Krug is excellent, but potentially the Cristal is better.

I drank my last bottle of the 2002 Cristal recently, and did not feel like repurchasing at double the money. But the 2008 is potentially as good or better, so for me it is a no brainer.
I have one bottle of the 02 Cristal Mark. Think it is about where it is going to get?
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#37 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » August 14th, 2019, 8:46 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:26 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:25 am
It ends up as deciding whether I would prefer Cristal 2008 or the Krug 2004. I think the Krug is excellent, but potentially the Cristal is better.

I drank my last bottle of the 2002 Cristal recently, and did not feel like repurchasing at double the money. But the 2008 is potentially as good or better, so for me it is a no brainer.
I have one bottle of the 02 Cristal Mark. Think it is about where it is going to get?
Not Mark, but if I had only one bottle I would wait 5-7 years as it is still youthful.
And I agree with Mark that the '08 is potentially better and the '09 is already as good.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#38 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 14th, 2019, 9:20 am

R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:46 am
Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:26 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:25 am
It ends up as deciding whether I would prefer Cristal 2008 or the Krug 2004. I think the Krug is excellent, but potentially the Cristal is better.

I drank my last bottle of the 2002 Cristal recently, and did not feel like repurchasing at double the money. But the 2008 is potentially as good or better, so for me it is a no brainer.
I have one bottle of the 02 Cristal Mark. Think it is about where it is going to get?
Not Mark, but if I had only one bottle I would wait 5-7 years as it is still youthful.
And I agree with Mark that the '08 is potentially better and the '09 is already as good.
I was kicking myself a little that I had drunk my ‘02 a tad too young. 5-7 years is about right.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#39 Post by Jonathan Sirot » August 14th, 2019, 2:23 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:25 am
It ends up as deciding whether I would prefer Cristal 2008 or the Krug 2004. I think the Krug is excellent, but potentially the Cristal is better.

I drank my last bottle of the 2002 Cristal recently, and did not feel like repurchasing at double the money. But the 2008 is potentially as good or better, so for me it is a no brainer.
I can agree with that Mark. Fortunately pretty early on I did pick up 6 btls of 08 Cristal at $199. Wish I had bought a case, but am happy. Now the lowest I can find, would likely be around $250. Although the Cristal is a little better, I have never had a vintage Krug I did not enjoy immensely, and they do go the distance. I think on account of the price and my love of Krug am in for 3 more 04s giving me a total of 6. Thanks everyone for their input, and mostly rational replies !

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#40 Post by R. Frankel » August 14th, 2019, 3:06 pm

Guessing at potential future deflationary periods or recessions is pretty difficult. What are far more predictable are two general pricing cycles. They are: price reductions for large volume wines like Krug when a new release is arriving soon (i.e. clearing out old inventory) and end of year sales (more clearing out, plus competition to catch holiday wine buying). I wish I had the will power to focus more buying on these cycles.

My guess is that this $210 price for 2004 Krug is about as it will go.
Rich Frankel

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#41 Post by William Anzalone » August 15th, 2019, 6:47 am

I bought 1 bottle of the Krug 2004 at the $209 because of the reviews and updates on this thread. I don't have a large champagne collection. Only a few prized bottles for special occasions. This past Friday, I popped a Krug 164 (2008 base wine) with my family to celebrate my son's 1st birthday. It was fantastic!!! I had a bottle of the 2006 Dom when he was born and the 2008 on my wedding anniv this past May. Since I had the Krug 164 so recently in time to the 2 Doms, I slightly prefer the Krug style but I've never had a vintage Krug. I've had several other NV Krug's but that was before they designated the base year and a few half bottles that didn't designate either. I have a 2006 and 2008 Dom left but the rest of my collection is NV, such as Ruinart.

My question is, if I want to purchase a few more bottles, am I I better served purchasing a few more Dom 2008 at at price point below $170, the Krug at $209 or the Krug 164 (prices have risen and not many 750 bottles out there that ship.to PA for less than $180)?

I have the space to age these if I choose but I would need a deeper collection to do so, which is why I'm starting to build my champagne collection a little. I've never had a well aged Dom or Krug but have the capability to do so.

Thanks for the advice and thanks for starting this thread. I would have never come across a vintage Krug for $209!

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#42 Post by R. Frankel » August 15th, 2019, 10:18 am

William - very hard to answer your question about how you would be better served. So much depends on your budget and appetite for champagne.

Like you I started out loving the big names like Krug and Taittinger Comte and bought a handful. I bought both vintage and MV Krug. But the big shift for me is changing my attitude towards Champagne from a special occasion wine to a deliciously regular part of my wine consumption. That had me looking for other brands that scratched that yummy itch at lower price points. Turns out that there are a lot between $50 and $80 that are excellent and drink nicely younger. Many threads here on this subject.

But ... if you only want more pricey bottles to drink rarely, then buy what you like best.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#43 Post by Troy Stark » August 15th, 2019, 3:24 pm

crickey wrote:
August 13th, 2019, 5:58 pm
Then you are in a lose-lose situation: it cost you both to hold (in a bank, which is a kind of lending, so you would be "earning," i.e. paying a negative rate) and to spend money. The solution is to stuff cash in your mattress.
Which is why negative interest rates won't work or stick around. It would cause a run on the banks and the entire economy would collapse just like it did in the 30s. I don't see that happening.

Edit; Also, just buy the Krug.
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#44 Post by David Glasser » August 15th, 2019, 5:51 pm

William, the answer depends on whether you like vintage Krug $40 more than Dom. Since you haven’t had vintage Krug, you can’t answer the question. Therefore, your options are:

1) Pop the vintage Krug or find some way to taste it and decide if it’s worth buying vs. the Dom.
Or
2) Hedge your bets and buy some of both.

I think $210 is as good a price as will be seen for 2004 Krug.

I often buy a few bottles of both Dom and vintage Krug, and the MV, but your preferences may differ.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#45 Post by William Anzalone » August 15th, 2019, 7:03 pm

Thanks for the guidance. I think I'll hedge my bets and buy a few more of the Dom 2008 and Krug 2004 but lean a bit heavier on the Krug since it's a great deal for that bottle and I can probably find the Dom at a decent price point closer to years end. I appreciate everyone's comments!

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#46 Post by Nathan Smyth » August 21st, 2019, 10:42 am

.
Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negative Yields
Aug. 21, 2019 11:33 am ET
https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-fo ... 1566385847
Google News Link

Now ask yourself how in Hades can the Keller G-Max continue to sell for more than $2000 per bottle if the greater Germanic Usury Industrial Complex can only offer negative outlooks on 30-year horizons?
.
keller-gmax.png
.
None of this makes any sense, unless you're willing to entertain some very dark, ugly, frankly rather apocalyptic thoughts about the necessary consequences of all this Fake Money having been pumped into the system since forever.

Personally, I'm having difficulty envisioning the Happy Ending.
.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#47 Post by Eric Lundblad » August 21st, 2019, 10:51 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

...

Or corked?

...
With NIR, in a year it'd be 5% less corked!
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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#48 Post by Nathan Smyth » August 21st, 2019, 10:54 am

Eric Lundblad wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 10:51 am
Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Negative interest rates are very, very difficult to think about.

...

Or corked?

...
With NIR, in a year it'd be 5% less corked!
LOL'ed.

Oh, man, I suspect we're all gonna need some proper Gallows Humor like that in that not-so-distant future.

But I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#49 Post by Robert M yers » August 21st, 2019, 10:54 am

Because the monthly tune up on a 100 ft yacht cost more than all the g max available in the world. We think wine is expensive...it’s not to some who all the sudden decide they want it. Just hope what you like stays off their radar.

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Re: 2004 krug buy more st 209.99 ?

#50 Post by Mark Y » August 21st, 2019, 10:55 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 10:42 am
Now ask yourself how in Hades can the Keller G-Max continue to sell for more than $2000 per bottle if the greater Germanic Usury Industrial Complex can only offer negative outlooks on 30-year horizons?
I get that you are troll, but at least make some sense in trolling?

billionaires don't give a shit about negative interest rate or $2000 wine..$2000 is like 20 cents to some folks.. if you wanted something for 20 cents, do you care about what the interest rate is in the market? or do you just go buy it?

I actually think there is some merit to some of the points you make, but the trolling aspect is just getting old.
Y.e.

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