TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

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Robert.A.Jr.
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TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#1 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 9th, 2019, 4:27 pm

I am surprised by this wine, it is not what I expected.

With a Leve 99, I was thinking blood sugar liquid sex mocha magix.

It’s not that at all. In fact, I’m surprised Jeffois is 99 on this. This is not Lascombes, Troplong Mondot, Smith Haut Lafite, Cos, and all those other wines that have gone Frankenstein on us.

This wine is quite fresh and medium weight on the palate. Finesse and silk. And ready to go. While the nose is a bit reticent, it is quite open on the palate.

I just got in the 375s that I ordered at Leve’s insistence. This has been a long-standing favorite Chateau of mine, and for a very long time, quite a sleeper. I have always adored its Cab Franc profile. I have always been surprised that Levenberg was not as big a fan of this wine, in the past, as was I. I am a big fan of 2010, 2005, 2000, 1999 and so on. And it has always been quite a value.

New ownership brought about substantial changes both in facilities and winemaking. Some new amphora techniques, whole cluster, changes in the cepage, and voila, we have a whole new wine. This is not the Les Carmes of the past, with its dusty, often herbaceous notes with crisp red fruits. This wine reeks less of Pessac-Leognan, and it is definitely leaning international in style, but still feels like Bordeaux. Polished Bordeaux, but not over the top. The palate has a broad range of red to wild dark fruits, but it’s the structure, acid and freshness that abounds. It’s interesting that I had the 2016 Ovid Hexameter a couple days ago, with its near equal cut of Cab Franc. This Les Carmes is substantially better. Less presence of new oak, no abrasive astringency. The Les Carmes still has a tangy red-fruit quality about it. Neither express Cab Franc the way I like it, with its tobacco and green streak, which is what Les Carmes expressed in the past (a Loire fan’s Bordeaux). But the Cab Franc cut clearly defines this wine, giving it lift and acid. Finishes with a crisp, dusty chocolate note.

This 2016 is better than its 2014 version, and substantially better than 2012. It seems like 2012 was more about new techniques than the materials, the 2014 is pulling it all together (I like it), and 2016 is when the wine really hits. If this is the expression of Les Carmes’ new style, this is an impressive modern Bordeaux. This is international done well. That said, I would still backfill over new purchases. The 2010 has more soul and truly expresses its terroir, while this 2016 is just flat out delicious. Chose what you like, but I want a connection in wine. A sense of place. New Bordeaux is losing that quality.

As a side note, I just grabbed more 2000 for about $100 per, which is less than 2018 futures and substantially less that current pricing on 2016. That’s a no-brainer, in my book. By the way, I went by Total Wine to grab these 2016s, and they still had 2014 on the shelves for $59.00. Not a bad purchase at all.

Sorry for the wishy-washy note here, but I am wishy-washy on this wine. The pleasure senses love it, the brain wants more.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#2 Post by Sh@n A » August 9th, 2019, 4:48 pm

Your note does not ready wishy washy to me? Your note sounds like you got engaged for the right reasons, and are rationalizing why not to get married. Sounds like you love it.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#3 Post by Marc Frontario » August 9th, 2019, 5:01 pm

First he's in bed at Ovid, infiltrating all his senses with magic of Rolland...and now this...he quickly retreats back to his safe harbor in an attempt to regain his fleeting wine street cred....instead Bobby ends up fawning all over a Leve special...the emperor has no clothes....this is all just happening too fast...just way too fast
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#4 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 9th, 2019, 5:02 pm

But perhaps it’s the one or several night stand over the long-term marriage? I’d still go back to 2010, and not just for the price. But yes, I liked it very very much.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#5 Post by Sh@n A » August 9th, 2019, 6:46 pm

Ahh yes it reads like a guilty affair
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 9th, 2019, 7:14 pm

Marc Frontario wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 5:01 pm
First he's in bed at Ovid, infiltrating all his senses with magic of Rolland...and now this...he quickly retreats back to his safe harbor in an attempt to regain his fleeting wine street cred....instead Bobby ends up fawning all over a Leve special...the emperor has no clothes....this is all just happening too fast...just way too fast
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#7 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 9th, 2019, 7:18 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 7:14 pm
Marc Frontario wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 5:01 pm
First he's in bed at Ovid, infiltrating all his senses with magic of Rolland...and now this...he quickly retreats back to his safe harbor in an attempt to regain his fleeting wine street cred....instead Bobby ends up fawning all over a Leve special...the emperor has no clothes....this is all just happening too fast...just way too fast
I'm so disillusioned. You think you know someone . . . .
And to think, you were still reeling from my Bedrock disclosure . . . .

Such a hooker . . . .

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#8 Post by C Chen » August 9th, 2019, 7:31 pm

Loved the insight. Thanks for the details and musings.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#9 Post by Dav1d S@wyer » August 9th, 2019, 9:19 pm

Thanks for the note! I went long on LCHB in '16 so this is encouraging. I don't mind ripe fruit but tend to prefer more elegant wines most of the time.

What about aging potential and drinking window?

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#10 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » August 9th, 2019, 9:36 pm

I get what Robert is saying. "Interesting" and "good" are not the same things, and they're not always found together. In fact, sometimes you get more of one in exchange for less of the other.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#11 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 3:08 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 9:36 pm
I get what Robert is saying. "Interesting" and "good" are not the same things, and they're not always found together. In fact, sometimes you get more of one in exchange for less of the other.
I have always said that I value “distinction” and a “sense of place” over most other qualities in a wine. Just look at the wines that dominate my cellar and notes: Sociando, Levet, Rougeard, Juge, Lanessan, Bel Air Marquis, Baudry, Plouzeau, Gonon, et al. Making delicious wines is easy. Making wines that reflect who they are and why they are distinct, not necessarily quite so easy. Les Carmes was once that and is now just more in the delicious camp, but if I wrote my note clearly enough, it works, and works quite well.

To David’s question, I was also surprised how approachable this wine was. I am just starting to try some 2016s, initially holding off on purchases given that I am 53 and tend to prefer Bordeaux with time on them, but those that I have opened, are more approachable than expected. I assume this is an attribute of the vintage, but have not opened enough to really make that call. I bet this one is in optimum drinking in 12-15 but will go 25+. It has the structure and fruit to go that distance. If you have more than a few, crack one open. You will not be disappointed for doing so.

PS. I so miss the distinct old label. The new label is a yawner.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#12 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 10th, 2019, 5:17 am

Given I have a limited number of dollars, delicious alone will never cut it. There are plenty of other wines which show terroir and taste good at the same price, Haut Bailly for one. I have not tasted the 2016, but have tasted both the 2014 and 2015. They fit your description, a certain richness but anonymity at the same time. Not surprising with the 2015, but a 2014 should show its origins, and didn’t. I wrote off the chateau from those two tastings.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#13 Post by Howard Cooper » August 10th, 2019, 5:19 am

Marc Frontario wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 5:01 pm
First he's in bed at Ovid, infiltrating all his senses with magic of Rolland...and now this...he quickly retreats back to his safe harbor in an attempt to regain his fleeting wine street cred....instead Bobby ends up fawning all over a Leve special...the emperor has no clothes....this is all just happening too fast...just way too fast
Just what I was thinking. But, to be fair, as I understand it as some people get older their palate gets less sensitive and they can no longer taste the nuance in wine. They start going to richer and richer wines as those are the ones they can still taste. [bleh.gif] [oops.gif] [help.gif]
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#14 Post by Charlie Carnes » August 10th, 2019, 6:48 am

Sh@n A wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 4:48 pm
Your note does not ready wishy washy to me? Your note sounds like you got engaged for the right reasons, and are rationalizing why not to get married. Sounds like you love it.
Well said shan. I would have said skanky hot, but that’s crass!
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#15 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 10th, 2019, 7:05 am

I don't know. While Robert was selling his soul (again), I was enjoying a 90 La Louviere, which was correct and proper and adheres to all known regulatory requirements for the AFWE. And I loved it.

Someone has to maintain standards around this place.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#16 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 8:18 am

I know, I know. Scandalous.

In my defense, I went from right coast to left coast, delirious from the time differential and lack of humidity, no batteries or cell phones. So confusing.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#17 Post by Jeff Leve » August 10th, 2019, 12:31 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 4:27 pm
I am surprised by this wine, it is not what I expected.

With a Leve 99, I was thinking blood sugar liquid sex mocha magix. It’s not that at all. In fact, I’m surprised Jeffois is 99 on this. This is not Lascombes, Troplong Mondot, Smith Haut Lafite, Cos, and all those other wines that have gone Frankenstein on us.

This wine is quite fresh and medium weight on the palate. Finesse and silk. And ready to go. While the nose is a bit reticent, it is quite open on the palate. I just got in the 375s that I ordered at Leve’s insistence.
I am beyond happy you liked the wine because you bought it on my recommendation. And the wine is just great! As for typicity, the wine is pure Pessac Leognan. Like all wines, it will come through as it ages.

FWIW, it is a strong possibility that the 2018 is going to be even better. It is similar in style, but texturally, it is richer, silkier and more complex. https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/bo ... aut-brion/

So, now you know you can always TIL, "Trust in Leve!" champagne.gif

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#18 Post by Marc Frontario » August 10th, 2019, 4:01 pm

'18?...Jeff we prefer our Bordeaux 13.5%alc or less
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#19 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 4:14 pm

Marc Frontario wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 4:01 pm
'18?...Jeff we prefer our Bordeaux 13.5%alc or less
Marc I have some 16.5% Martinelli for you and the boys, at our next tasting. It will be our starter, on the rocks, with those big ice balls you like.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#20 Post by Pat Martin » August 10th, 2019, 5:44 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 5:17 am
Given I have a limited number of dollars, delicious alone will never cut it. There are plenty of other wines which show terroir and taste good at the same price, Haut Bailly for one. I have not tasted the 2016, but have tasted both the 2014 and 2015. They fit your description, a certain richness but anonymity at the same time. Not surprising with the 2015, but a 2014 should show its origins, and didn’t. I wrote off the chateau from those two tastings.
I had the 08 Haut Bailly recently and it fits this description too, for my palate. Delicious and very very good, but lacking in a little soul. Maybe it gains that with more time, I dunno.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#21 Post by Pat Martin » August 10th, 2019, 5:55 pm

As we’ve lamented many a time, who’s left in Bordeaux making wine with a sense of tradition, place, individuality?

Sociando Mallet, maybe some Pomerol, GPL (?), who else? The ranks are thin these days.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#22 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 7:07 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 5:55 pm
As we’ve lamented many a time, who’s left in Bordeaux making wine with a sense of tradition, place, individuality?

Sociando Mallet, maybe some Pomerol, GPL (?), who else? The ranks are thin these days.

Bel Air Marquis! [wow.gif]

I still think some of the major Classified Growths, like Montrose, Leoville Barton, GPL, Lalande, Haut Brion, et al., not to mention La Mission Haut Brion, are making spectacular wines that remain consistent with their traditions and place. My issue there is cost and them needing so much time, that I am better off back-filling. I did buy a fairly broad range of 2014s, but now am I only barely tipping my toes into a few 2015s and 2016s. Shocking to me that wines like Figeac and Conseillante - wines that had major followings - would have gone to the modernists. I have not tried them in 2015 or 2016 to see how that is reflected in the wine, but the scores and rave critics’ reviews do speak volumes. I bought both in 2014, however.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#23 Post by Marc Frontario » August 10th, 2019, 7:43 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 4:14 pm
Marc Frontario wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 4:01 pm
'18?...Jeff we prefer our Bordeaux 13.5%alc or less
Marc I have some 16.5% Martinelli for you and the boys, at our next tasting. It will be our starter, on the rocks, with those big ice balls you like.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#24 Post by Alan Rath » August 10th, 2019, 8:19 pm

Fwiw, my note from UGC back in January:

2016 Château Les Carmes Haut-Brion - France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan (1/28/2019)
medium dark, medium body, slightly lighter style, very nice dusty dark red fruit, has richness but maintains some elegance with good acidity, some fine rocky tannins, almost a volcanic note. Leaning more lush and modern but quite delicious. (92 pts.)

Assuming 2018 is “more” of everything than 16, I’d probably skip it even if I wasn’t already out of my buying window due to age.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#25 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 10th, 2019, 8:23 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 5:55 pm
As we’ve lamented many a time, who’s left in Bordeaux making wine with a sense of tradition, place, individuality?

Sociando Mallet, maybe some Pomerol, GPL (?), who else? The ranks are thin these days.
I am pretty fond of the 2008 Haut Bailly, and recently had it from both bottle and magnum. The magnum was completely shut down, but in my notes from the fifth I found some cedar, brick dust and a little bit of leather, which I think may become more pronounced with age.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#26 Post by Pat Martin » August 10th, 2019, 8:41 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 8:23 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 5:55 pm
As we’ve lamented many a time, who’s left in Bordeaux making wine with a sense of tradition, place, individuality?

Sociando Mallet, maybe some Pomerol, GPL (?), who else? The ranks are thin these days.
I am pretty fond of the 2008 Haut Bailly, and recently had it from both bottle and magnum. The magnum was completely shut down, but in my notes from the fifth I found some cedar, brick dust and a little bit of leather, which I think may become more pronounced with age.
Good to hear, I’ll avoid the 15 and 16.

I didn’t find the 08 modern really, except for the structure as it was wide open already in that regard. It was more that it seemed just a bit too refined if that’s possible, not slick really, but almost corporate. Again, it was super delicious, a super wine, but not a super Graves (at least yet).
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#27 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 9:01 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 7:05 am
I don't know. While Robert was selling his soul (again), I was enjoying a 90 La Louviere, which was correct and proper and adheres to all known regulatory requirements for the AFWE. And I loved it.

Someone has to maintain standards around this place.
An irony here, it is that very own 1990 La Louviere that was my Bordeaux epiphany wine. Had it on release in 1994. Classic dusty, smoky, earthy Pessac-Leognan. I have since had more than two cases of that wine, including one last year. It has never ever once disappointed, and has always been true.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#28 Post by Pat Martin » August 10th, 2019, 9:17 pm

I’m gonna pull a page from the critics’ play book, and declare the 1990 Louviere the best ever at that address.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#29 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 11th, 2019, 6:21 am

Pat Martin wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 9:17 pm
I’m gonna pull a page from the critics’ play book, and declare the 1990 Louviere the best ever at that address.
I’m a big fan of this Chateau, at least was until they recently went dark, but concur 100%. The 1990 is the finest wine that they have made. And like you, I have had lots of this vintage and others.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#30 Post by Carlos Delpin » August 11th, 2019, 6:29 am

I’m more concerned about the state of Roberto’s cellar. What the hell is he doing drinking 2016 Bordeaux? Even in the tropics we know that the stuff needs to be aged. In our wine circle it is frowned upon if a Bordeaux from this century is opened.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#31 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 11th, 2019, 6:34 am

Carlos Delpin wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 6:29 am
I’m more concerned about the state of Roberto’s cellar. What the hell is he doing drinking 2016 Bordeaux? Even in the tropics we know that the stuff needs to be aged. In our wine circle it is frowned upon if a Bordeaux from this century is opened.
LOL. One must try in order to discern what to buy, or one could end up with drek in this era of ever-changing wine styles and musical chairs with consultants. The days of yore when we could rely on a singular critic, and the historic consistency of the great estates, is a thing of the past, for the most part.

And this was more or less a science experiment. It’s not like I’m stocking up on 16s at my age, but was very curious where a perrenial fave of mine had gone. Plus, I wanted to rub it in Leve’s face that I hated it. But I didn’t.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#32 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 11th, 2019, 7:04 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 6:21 am
Pat Martin wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 9:17 pm
I’m gonna pull a page from the critics’ play book, and declare the 1990 Louviere the best ever at that address.
I’m a big fan of this Chateau, at least was until they recently went dark, but concur 100%. The 1990 is the finest wine that they have made. And like you, I have had lots of this vintage and others.
Hmmm. Maybe. Probably. The 83 and 85 are also very fine
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#33 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 11th, 2019, 7:14 am

I think you sent me a bottle of the 1983, yes? I did indeed enjoy it, as I have some 1982. I still think the 1990 is a step up, but I’m curious of your most recent experience.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#34 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 11th, 2019, 7:24 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 7:14 am
I think you sent me a bottle of the 1983, yes? I did indeed enjoy it, as I have some 1982. I still think the 1990 is a step up, but I’m curious of your most recent experience.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#35 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 11th, 2019, 7:41 am

Carlos Delpin wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 6:29 am
I’m more concerned about the state of Roberto’s cellar. What the hell is he doing drinking 2016 Bordeaux? Even in the tropics we know that the stuff needs to be aged. In our wine circle it is frowned upon if a Bordeaux from this century is opened.
By this century, are you including 2000? Beginning to open and enjoy.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#36 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 11th, 2019, 7:56 am

No shame in opening 2001s now, and I am just about done with my 2003s (some of which were delicious). 04s and 02s are rounding into shape.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#37 Post by Jeff Leve » August 11th, 2019, 8:29 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 6:34 am
It’s not like I’m stocking up on 16s at my age, but was very curious where a perrenial fave of mine had gone. Plus, I wanted to rub it in Leve’s face that I hated it. But I didn’t.
There is hope for you yet Robert. neener Wait until you taste the 2016 Figeac! It is pricey. But it's also a remarkable wine.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leogna

#38 Post by Carlos Delpin » August 11th, 2019, 9:03 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 7:41 am
Carlos Delpin wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 6:29 am
I’m more concerned about the state of Roberto’s cellar. What the hell is he doing drinking 2016 Bordeaux? Even in the tropics we know that the stuff needs to be aged. In our wine circle it is frowned upon if a Bordeaux from this century is opened.
By this century, are you including 2000? Beginning to open and enjoy.
Haven’t started on my 2000’s yet. Planning to organize a tasting next year to look in. As a group we have been enjoying the 88, 89, 90, 95, 96 and 98 RB. Once in a while we dip into the reserves of 82 and 85. Opened a bottle last week of the 85 Haut Bages Averous that was outstanding.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#39 Post by Bret D!sk!n » August 11th, 2019, 10:41 am

If anyone is in Illinois Binny's is selling the 2016 for $99/bottle (though the website says there is only limited availability at certain stores, so it might all be gone already). I cleaned out their Lincoln Park location yesterday of the 6 it said they had in stock and they even gave me a case discount (knocking it down to $89/bottle!) which was a steal.

https://www.binnys.com/catalogsearch/re ... armes+haut

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#40 Post by Mike Grammer » August 11th, 2019, 5:56 pm

I got to this relatively late in the UGC tasting back in January. My note seems to accord with uncle Bob's.

"2016 Chateau Les Carmes-Haut Brion

Pretty. That’s the word for this bouquet. Real leather component with black raspberry and black plum. Compelling. What a nice change of pace—very fresh indeed with tannins and acid well integrated. Cranberry and redcurrant, lots of interest and a chance to grow into something very good (although the price, at C$375 a bottle is a bit crazy now)."


I have a 98 up to bat for next July as part of a 98s table tasting.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#41 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 11th, 2019, 6:00 pm

Looking foreword to seeing a note on that 98! I really liked 99 and 00, but have not tried 98.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#42 Post by David Glasser » August 12th, 2019, 7:13 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 5:17 am
Given I have a limited number of dollars, delicious alone will never cut it. There are plenty of other wines which show terroir and taste good at the same price, Haut Bailly for one. I have not tasted the 2016, but have tasted both the 2014 and 2015. They fit your description, a certain richness but anonymity at the same time. Not surprising with the 2015, but a 2014 should show its origins, and didn’t. I wrote off the chateau from those two tastings.
Mark, is the bolded portion referring to Carmes Haut Brion or Haut Bailly?

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#43 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 12th, 2019, 7:16 am

LCHB.
Haut Bailly really nailed it in 2014.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#44 Post by Mike Grammer » August 12th, 2019, 8:23 am

I like Haut Bailly in general as, for me, a fine traditional-style house.
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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#45 Post by David Glasser » August 12th, 2019, 6:43 pm

Thanks Mark.
I agree Mike. Haut Bailly has become my go-to in Pessac-Léognan.

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Re: TN: 2016 Chateau Les Carmes Haut Brion, Pessac-Leognan

#46 Post by Howard Cooper » August 13th, 2019, 6:05 am

Carlos Delpin wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 6:29 am
I’m more concerned about the state of Roberto’s cellar. What the hell is he doing drinking 2016 Bordeaux? Even in the tropics we know that the stuff needs to be aged. In our wine circle it is frowned upon if a Bordeaux from this century is opened.
You don't drink 2001s and 2004s???
Howard

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