The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

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Kelly Walker
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The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#1 Post by Kelly Walker » August 5th, 2019, 10:09 pm

For your consideration:

Liber Pater

https://ukinvestormagazine.co.uk/the-vi ... 8DXCGeMGTY
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#2 Post by Craig G » August 5th, 2019, 10:28 pm

I’m in for a case.
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#3 Post by Ryan A » August 5th, 2019, 10:32 pm

$1,500/oz- I am sure it is worth it... yet part of me says I have to try it. Damn it. I hope I am never offered the chance to buy an oz.
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Marcu$ Stanley
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#4 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » August 6th, 2019, 3:53 am

You've got to admire this guy...he realized that the market segment of zillionaires who want to ostentatiously piss away their money was underserved, and he stepped up to the plate. There are thousands of billionaires on the planet and the only wine available at a price they would even notice was DRC. Any owner of a decent winery could have chosen to start pricing at five figures a bottle, all you need is a good line of BS and maybe a few props like his 150 year old plow. But only he had the guts to do it!

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#5 Post by Corey N. » August 6th, 2019, 4:21 am

Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#6 Post by SteveG » August 6th, 2019, 4:38 am

Not that I have any experience in excessible ballering, but certainly I would not drink this wine from the pictured Burgundy glass...
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#7 Post by G. Shields » August 6th, 2019, 5:17 am

Frequently receive more than 90 point scores from critics... wow, the wines must be really amazing in that case and worth every penny!
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#8 Post by Dale Williams » August 6th, 2019, 5:26 am

I've seen a couple of articles about this. But the term "worth" in title is misleading.
His release price is his release price. But the comparables they are using are bached by auction pricing.
It's possible that he does sell out his 220 released bottles. But who would know? Only when there are multiple bottles at auction do you get a real idea of demand.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#9 Post by Peter Valiquette » August 6th, 2019, 5:52 am

Leve only gave the 2018 a 94 so it must be plonk.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#10 Post by RichardFlack » August 6th, 2019, 6:14 am

Let me guess - Suckling 105 points?

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#11 Post by G. Bienstock » August 6th, 2019, 6:30 am

" In 2016 the estate was targeted by vandals who prevented the winery from processing that year’s grapes. "
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#12 Post by julianseersmartin » August 6th, 2019, 7:38 am

The story behind it is quite interesting. 2015 is the first vintage in which they've used varietals not approved by INAO - Castet, Marselan and Tarney Coulant. Given the step change in climate conditions between now and when they were "outlawed", can they honestly claim they're a true representation of pre-phylloxera BDX? It strikes me that it'd be physically impossible to recreate the right conditions.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#13 Post by Jürgen Steinke » August 6th, 2019, 7:56 am

Maybe a few people think its a good investment and the price will be 100.000 bucks a bottle in the future. The rarest things on earth seem to have no price limit.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#14 Post by Yao C » August 6th, 2019, 8:38 am

Courtesy of the entertaining dude from Craft and Curd
BFF1707F-2A5B-4E7E-BF4A-A40466484895.png
C h 0 o n 6

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#15 Post by Matt Fleming » August 6th, 2019, 9:44 am

Loic’s success is also good news for the Bordeaux region in general, proving that the city’s top producers can hold their own against their Burgundian rivals in the fine wine arena
That is quite the statement. I'll ring up the Rothschild's and let them know they can move DefCon status to yellow.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#16 Post by David K o l i n » August 6th, 2019, 9:59 am

Suckers

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#17 Post by Paul McCourt » August 6th, 2019, 10:02 am

Is it dead at retail?
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#18 Post by Dale Williams » August 6th, 2019, 10:18 am

It does seem to have gotten more attention from luxury/investor sites than wine-centric ones
It's interesting that he was convicted of fraud by misusing EU funds(he's appealing)
Two serious wine questions:
One reason he was challenged by the INAO was his plan to plant 30,000 plants per acre. He scaled back to allowable 20,000 (5,000 to 10,000 is Graves norm). I wouldn't think that would be conducive to high quality wine, but maybe the competition stresses the vines? I really don't understand viticulture. :(
Also, several articles talk about the old vines on property. But what was the property called before Pasquet bought it?

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#19 Post by M. Meer » August 6th, 2019, 10:37 am

"In 2005, about 5 kilometers northwest of Landiras (see map above), he found and bought what looked like an abandoned parcel of old vines planted on gravel and sandy soils, atop a small mound at about 80 meters above sea level, which became Liber Pater."

https://www.ledomduvin.com/2018/11/libe ... c.html?m=1
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#20 Post by Philip Ente » August 6th, 2019, 11:56 am

Marcu$ Stanley wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 3:53 am
You've got to admire this guy...he realized that the market segment of zillionaires who want to ostentatiously piss away their money was underserved, and he stepped up to the plate. There are thousands of billionaires on the planet and the only wine available at a price they would even notice was DRC. Any owner of a decent winery could have chosen to start pricing at five figures a bottle, all you need is a good line of BS and maybe a few props like his 150 year old plow. But only he had the guts to do it!
Well stated.
Remember the helicopter FOAF and the guy who bragged to me that he drank up all the Petrus at some exclusive restaurant
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#21 Post by Dale Williams » August 6th, 2019, 12:07 pm

M. Meer wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 10:37 am
"In 2005, about 5 kilometers northwest of Landiras (see map above), he found and bought what looked like an abandoned parcel of old vines planted on gravel and sandy soils, atop a small mound at about 80 meters above sea level, which became Liber Pater."

https://www.ledomduvin.com/2018/11/libe ... c.html?m=1
Thanks for that. Well south of P-L, so well outside historic (well, at least last couple centuries, who knows re Roman) areas considered best for dry wines. All his neighbors seem to be in the $7-15 market.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#22 Post by Kelly Walker » August 6th, 2019, 12:20 pm

Philip Ente wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 11:56 am
Marcu$ Stanley wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 3:53 am
You've got to admire this guy...he realized that the market segment of zillionaires who want to ostentatiously piss away their money was underserved, and he stepped up to the plate. There are thousands of billionaires on the planet and the only wine available at a price they would even notice was DRC. Any owner of a decent winery could have chosen to start pricing at five figures a bottle, all you need is a good line of BS and maybe a few props like his 150 year old plow. But only he had the guts to do it!
Well stated.
Remember the helicopter FOAF and the guy who bragged to me that he drank up all the Petrus at some exclusive restaurant
My experiences in wine are leading me to socialism

Kelly- see you at WWF?
Not sure yet. May have to be in Abu Dhabi blush
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#23 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 6th, 2019, 12:26 pm

I'm more interested in his 150-year old horse.

deadhorse
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#24 Post by Freek S u i j v e r » August 6th, 2019, 12:50 pm

Since founding Liber Pater, Loic Pasquet has focused on reviving forgotten Bordeaux varietals and producing the finest wines possible from his well-sited vineyards which frequently receive ratings over 90 points by top wine critics. He insists on farming organically and only uses a 150 year old plough and horse in the vineyards to avoid disturbing the ecosystem any more than is necessary. His is a true success story against a wider trend [....]
Sounds a lot like a guy I remember mailing a lot with in Burgundy around 2012-2013-2014. He also was taking the road least traveled... What was his name????

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#25 Post by M. Meer » August 6th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Dale Williams wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 12:07 pm

Thanks for that. Well south of P-L, so well outside historic (well, at least last couple centuries, who knows re Roman) areas considered best for dry wines. All his neighbors seem to be in the $7-15 market.
That is true. I wonder how the wines will fare as the climate changes, given the terroir he has chosen for those varieties.

The second wine looks to be around $80, which is still above the norm for the appellation, but a bit more palatable (at least price-wise).

It's amazing he can choose to declassify multiple years, but he does only have to find 100 takers/year, and I can't imagine he paid the going rate for a top left bank vineyard.
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#26 Post by Marcus Dean » August 6th, 2019, 1:27 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 12:26 pm
I'm more interested in his 150-year old horse.

deadhorse
LOL me to.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#27 Post by Mattstolz » August 6th, 2019, 3:37 pm

if you buy it, be very careful about posting a TN.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#28 Post by Dale Williams » August 6th, 2019, 5:35 pm

julianseersmartin wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 7:38 am
The story behind it is quite interesting. 2015 is the first vintage in which they've used varietals not approved by INAO - Castet, Marselan and Tarney Coulant. Given the step change in climate conditions between now and when they were "outlawed", can they honestly claim they're a true representation of pre-phylloxera BDX? It strikes me that it'd be physically impossible to recreate the right conditions.
They should have waited- Marselan is one of the grapes now approved for Bordeaux (but not Graves or any more prestigous appellation)
But I am confused because they talk of historic Bdx varieties, but Marselan seems to have been bred in 1961?
G. Bienstock wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 6:30 am
" In 2016 the estate was targeted by vandals who prevented the winery from processing that year’s grapes. "
Yet Leve gave it yet another 94!
M. Meer wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 1:20 pm
It's amazing he can choose to declassify multiple years, but he does only have to find 100 takers/year, and I can't imagine he paid the going rate for a top left bank vineyard.
I'd assume that abandoned vineyards in a non-wine area NEAR some wineries that get $7-15 bottle was pretty close to free. And he's only need to sell 10-20 bottles to net more than his neighbors would gross for 5,000+ cases

So the question is are billionaires/centi-millionaires really that gullible?
I know there are people who will buy anything for prestige.
But they usually go for something with proven track record for prestige.

If they do any due diligence:
Winemaker with little record (but fraud convictions)
Area that does not produce any prestige wines
Grapes that are typically in cheap wines
Wines that have no history of aging
Wines with no history of appreciation/resale
Wines with no critic scores except lots of Leve press releases in low to mid 90s (and one Vinuous I can't see as non-subscriber)

Leve gives mostly 94s but read like PR releases. The great thing is the new oak- till they switch to amphora- how traditional!

Get in on the ground floor baby.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#29 Post by julianseersmartin » August 7th, 2019, 10:29 am

Dale Williams wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 5:35 pm
So the question is are billionaires/centi-millionaires really that gullible?
I know there are people who will buy anything for prestige.
But they usually go for something with proven track record for prestige.
Le Secret des Grands Chefs (‘SGC’) is a good example of this sort of thing. As far as I can tell, SGC only lasted two vintages. A massive amount of hype around them but very little in terms of real tasting notes.
The great thing is the new oak- till they switch to amphora- how traditional!
Yeah, this really made me laugh.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#30 Post by Dale Williams » August 7th, 2019, 11:13 am

julianseersmartin wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 10:29 am

Le Secret des Grands Chefs (‘SGC’) is a good example of this sort of thing. As far as I can tell, SGC only lasted two vintages. A massive amount of hype around them but very little in terms of real tasting notes.
I'd never heard of this, just read Jancis and Decanter articles, from CT looks like only 2009 and 2010 released (and 1 late 2006). But maybe it's a secret. [snort.gif]

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#31 Post by Dale Bowers » August 7th, 2019, 1:00 pm

35 bottles in CellarTracker [wow.gif]
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#32 Post by Alain M » August 13th, 2019, 1:06 am

For those who can read French, there's an interesting thread on La Passion du Vin forum on Liber Pater. Loic Pasquet participated in it initially, but stopped responding when the hard questions came up.
Guy is a fraud, pure and simple.

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#33 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 13th, 2019, 6:11 am

Alain, can you post a link please. Could not find it when I googled.
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#34 Post by Alain M » August 13th, 2019, 9:07 am

M ï c h € l

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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#35 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 13th, 2019, 10:56 am

Thanks
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Re: The ultimate in excessibe ballerness

#36 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 13th, 2019, 6:21 pm

Tout ce qui est excessif est insignifiant.
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