Complex wines and simple ingredients are kind of boring!

A Friday, Edenesque troll.

Lately I realized that as I serve wine with most dinners, I am missing out on some ingredients I really love. Artichokes, cucumber, asparagus, and also with savory courses, anything with vinegar, citrus, or sugar. I do have Indian food, but less often than I would because it doesn’t work (for my palate) with wine, and Thai and Chinese food I find are best with Champagne, which is fine but again quite limiting.

If I am drinking aged Bordeaux, which is most of the time, the choices are even more limited, mostly simple dishes that don’t clash with the complexity of the wine. Burgundy is a little bit more forgiving, but as it has become so incredibly expensive, I am careful with what I serve with the good ones. I cannot even eat cheese except after the meal.

The obvious answer is to drink other wines, and I do, mostly Roses, Champagnes, and some Italian reds like Chianti, but I miss the complexity of older wines. So I have come to drink much more beer and iced tea. I like wines that are complex, but that is precisely the characteristic that clashes with complex food, so if I cannot drink an interesting wine, I would rather drink something else.

Screw the wine, EAT THE FOOD YOU LIKE.

That is why I have never bought into the whole wine and food paradox. I enjoy wine much more with friends in casual settings than in a table with food. Must be the tropics…

I love wine with food. I love wine without food. I have no problem drinking a beer, cheap rosé, or cocktail with dinner and opening something nice afterward to sip on its own. I think the best wines are often best without food anyway. Plus, artichokes, vinegar, really spicy foods, etc. are so delicious. I can’t imagine being such a slave to food and wine pairing as to deprive myself of those. Plus, there’s lunch, right? Savory breakfast?

food/wine pairing is overrated. just drink what you like… and eat what you want.
outside of some obvious disaster pairings to avoid, i think generally you can eat any food, with any good wine.
shitty wine is shitty regardless of food. likewise with great wine.

I have to agree with sentiment of others here - drink what you like and eat what you like. Are there pairing that are ‘magical’ and truly make for a unique combination? Of course - and all of you probably have discovered you own. But in reality, a good chef to make any wine ‘go’ with any good based on spice, texture, etc. Will the pairing be ‘magical’? Perhaps not, but it will work.

This reminds me of a seminar I took part in a number of years back when the moderator asked the 6 winemakers on the panel what they would pair their wines with. The winemaker in front of me, pouring a Sta Rita Hills Pinot Noir, said that he would pair it with salmon - specifically line caught salmon from a particular river. I was up next and was pouring a syrah. The moderator asked what I’d pair it with and I looked out at the crowd, slowly pulled the mic close, and said that I’d pair with nachos.

Now as you can imagine, everyone started laughing hysterically, and 15 seconds later, the moderator asked me to clarify. I pulled the mic close and said ‘I like Nachos and don’t like to complicate things too much.’ At least 2 dozen folks came up to me afterwards and thanked me for my frankness . . .

Cheers.

And it would be far better than that salmon thing! PN does NOT pair with salmon, no matter how many people in Oregon and Washington seem to be desperate to believe that since they’re growing Pinot Noir, it’s a perfect match to salmon. Ugh.

I understand Mark’s problem, but the solution is not to have both in your mouth at the same time. And if you’re eating something really spicy that gives you a lingering burn, don’t drink until that’s gone.

I’m with the chorus of replies here. WBers overthink this to absurdity. The threads where people smugly assert that you shouldn’t drink wine with the cuisine of 90+% of the world are the worst thing about this board, by far.

“I miss the complexity of older wines. So I have come to drink much more beer and iced tea. I like wines that are complex, but that is precisely the characteristic that clashes with complex food, so if I cannot drink an interesting wine, I would rather drink something else.”

Are beer and tea really (a) such a better pairing with all non-bland foods than any wine you could come up with, and (b) actually more complex than the wines you could drink? I always chuckle when WBers nitpick how you can’t have wine because this one side dish or this one flavor, but then “any beer” or “Tsing Tao” or “Dos Equis” is perfect. There is this absurdly high bar to clear for wine, alongside this absurdly low bar to clear for any other beverage. Why such a different standard, especially if you’re a Wine Berserker?

What? :smiley: If I am pairing a red with salmon, the first thing I’d grab is a Pinot Noir! I have no thorough experience with Oregon Pinot Noir, but any lighter French, German or Austrian Pinot Noir goes really well with lots of different salmon dishes. Perhaps not with all of them, but still it’s a reliable choice. And believe me, I know it, since we eat like tons of salmon per capita here in Finland!

(Of course there are lots of great alternatives to Pinot Noir if looking for a red with salmon, like Poulsard, Pelaverga, Kadarka, Pineau d’Aunis… but a solid bottle of delicate Pinot Noir is much easier to come by.)

Well said, Doug. I do try to pair when possible, but I don’t worry about getting it perfect.

So true. I find the whole PN and salmon thing to be completely absurd. Several times, I’ve tried Oregon PN or red Burgundy, alongside a white wine, with salmon. Even when I far prefer the red wine, the white is such a better pairing that there’s really no comparison. Sure, you can pair them. You can drink anything with anything, but it doesn’t make it a good pairing. People feel the need to argue this point all the time. I find those people have almost never done the type of comparisons I’ve done.

I fully agree with most of the responses. We way overthink the wine with food thing. Frankly, most of my meals last about 15-20 minutes, whereas the wine portion can last several hours, so if the food doesn’t “match” the wine, I can just pause on the wine for a few minutes.

Oh, and BTW, with regard to Pinot noir and salmon, I think it depends upon what kind of salmon you are talking about. Richer, fattier, or more strongly flavored salmon (Taku, Yukon, or Copper River king and sockeye) go quite well with Oregon Pinot and burgundy (although I probably would still prefer a Good white burg or richer chablis if I had the choice).

Eat more cheese. champagne.gif

I do care a lot about matching, but quite enjoy tasting a variety of wines, including those that work more with diverse foods such as Riesling (young or mature), rose, Beaujolais, etc. If we are serving mature claret, Burg, Piedmont I do generally suggest that we stay away from the more problematic foods, but that’s generally once or twice a week. We usually have 2-4 no alcohol nights a week, so plenty of opportunities to eat artichokes and fiery dishes. Even if we are having a fine old Bordeaux I’m ok if Betsy really wants to include say asparagus, I’ll just make sure I have some seltzer before I drink more wine (artichokes are the one that seem to alter my perception of wine even if i have h2O).

Riesling, Chablis and white Burgundy.

get drunk and order pizza

“Salmon and Pinot Noir”… sucks / kills
You rarely see the method of preparation described when people make these broad generalisations.

Gently poached in wine (and Tarragon perhaps), lose the PN!
Cedar planked on BBQ, PN ( Oregon say) can work well.
IMHO !

Keep your eye on Verdicchio.

It’s making a hard charge towards the Big Leagues.

Captures it in a nutshell. Great job.