Older Bordeauxs 50+ years vs newer <50 year old?

Hi all, new member here starting to get involved. Question: was there a difference in winemaking/barreling in the Bordeauxs of the 40’s and 50’s vs 1960s and beyond that would make older Bordeauxs taste lighter and sweeter vs newer ones. A Seattle Somm told me that something had changed that raised the sugars of the older ones but not the more “recent” vintages, which have more the woodsy/mushroom flavors. Background: I recently had the great pleasure of sharing a 1947 Chateau Haut Brion and 1981 Chateau Haut Brion side by side, both from WineBid. (Why 1947 and 1981? Birthday vintages for my mother and my fiance, shared on Mother’s Day!) We had them at https://canlis.com/ in Seattle- HIGHLY recommended. The Somms there are great, and our somm was amazed at the condition and flavor of both bottles. We opened both, decanted, let sit for 30min-1 hour and enjoyed over another 1.5 hours. We were all amazed at how fresh and light the 1947 was- gorgeous, beautiful, and complex, soft spice and mushroom. But actually a little lighter/sweeter/a little more like a burgundy than the 1981, which was a true, full Bordeaux with lots of earth, smoke, deep mushroom, velvet. The Somm said that some of the winemaking/barreling techniques had changed through the 50s and 60s such that the older wine might show a little lighter and fresher than the newer one, or maybe it was just that one bottle. Would appreciate anyone’s read on that. Either way, both bottles were highly enjoyed and appreciated by Mom and wife-to-be!

Russ,

If this is a legitimate question, as the new CEO of Winebid, I would have left out “both from WineBid, both with perfect provenance and condition” from your post since it has no relevance to your query.

But since you posted it, can you give details about the perfect provenance of the '47?

Looking forward to your continued participation on this board.

As I understand it, 1947 was a very ripe vintage for the time. 1981 was a fairly good but not great vintage.

A correct bottle of the 1947 should be quite a lot richer and more muscular than the 1981, and look like this:

My experience with great Bordeaux is it ages by eventually “shedding” its tannins and the brawniness of youth and gaining bottle sweetness, which all just means a slow set of chemical reactions in bottle, often getting fresher and more detailed and more open with age. And ‘47 was a riper vintage than ‘81 to begin with as observed above.

Your take therefore is probably spot on but also isn’t very surprising. I’ve had 81 Haut Brion a couple times, and it’s maybe the best 1981 Bordeaux. Or at least the best of a couple dozen I’ve had. I wouldn’t be surprised if good bottles age for a long time and become fresher and sweeter.

That’s beautiful!

Something’s not adding up here -

A Seattle Somm told me that something had changed that raised the sugars of the older ones but not the more “recent” vintages

vs.

We were all amazed at how fresh and light the 1947 was



actually a little lighter/sweeter/a little more like a burgundy than the 1981, which was a true, full Bordeaux

No doubt '47 is a vintage with higher sugars than '81, which is the kind of year that used to get the faint praise of “typical.” But higher sugars translate to a fuller body, not a lighter one, and a well-kept '47 should still be very full.

Also no doubt a lot changed between '47 and '81, usually for the worse. This was the period of industrialization, chemicals, overcropping, etc. Many from the '60s and '70s taste older than their counterparts from the '40s and '50s.

It tastes as good as it looks!

You just happened to have a photo at hand…

As was this . . . .

This may all be true Keith, including your implication that the somm was full of #%^* on his sugar theory as a general phenom, but 81 Haut Brion is also a really good wine and far from done maturing.

yep, people with perfect provenance '47 First Growth sell them through Winebid.
That’s the ticket!

I get the take on the perfect provenance claim, but it is possible that we’ll-stored old wines get placed on WineBid.

It could be considered, as well: do the best placements get snapped up by insiders?

We know WK don’t mess around when it comes to Saturday night wine choices.

I think the interesting question will not be the aging of seventy year old versus forty year olds, but whether the current crop of Bordeaux (post 2000) will age as well as their predecessors.

Good point.

(Someone archive this post.)

Russ,
You might want to take this opportunity to explain your comment. How did Winebid authenticate provenance and genuineness? It’s not generally assumed that your company receives consignments like a perfect bottle of 1947 Haut Brion.
Thanks,
Peter

Hiya R@y. I understand you post a lot and this was my first attempt to start getting more involved. Simply trying to ask a wine question of all the knowledgeable folks here. Per your comment, I’ve deleted the part about perfect provenance- you are correct that was imprecise language. The provenance “established provenance” by WineBid published standards of knowing where the consignment came from and the conditions of storage etc, as described on the site. I was simply trying to establish the background of the wine and the conditions it was opened and poured. If you have any thoughts on the question itself of older vs newer ones, I’m very interested to hear. Thanks.

Answered just now. Sorry that I used the word “perfect,” that was imprecise and has been deleted. The bottles were of good provenance to the standards and descriptions as posted on the WineBid site. My question, though, was whether other folks had similar experiences with older vs newer Bordeaux like that or Haut Brions in particular. It was my first time having something that aged, and I know folks here on WB have a lot more experience. Thanks for any thoughts on that topic.

Great follow on question Mark. Is there a reason that we think post 2000 Bordeaux will age differently? Different techniques/new technology? Changes in climate? New generation of winemakers at the historic Chateaux?