The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

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Yup....

#101 Post by TomHill »

Ken Zinns wrote: December 12th, 2020, 4:46 pm
Andrew Hall wrote: December 12th, 2020, 3:56 pm The 2019 Bichi "Listan" is really great. Super crunchy, but clean. A bit of funk. More acids than usual and really balanced. All the current release of Bichi are really good.
Good to hear - I’ll keep an eye out for it. I’ve had such mixed experience with Bichi wines in the past - they’ve ranged from very good to undrinkable Brett bombs. Don’t mind a “bit of funk” but it can go too far. Thanks for posting the note.
Yup, Ken...me as well. They are "natural" wines. The '18 I had was soooo funky/natty/brett-laden/Kansas outhouse that I couldn't drink it. I'll not revisit Bichi again.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#102 Post by Ken Zinns »

Just spotted this recent VinePair article:
Here’s Why Sommeliers Love País
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#103 Post by Andrew Hall »

I got a "blind box" from a natty wine group and there was something pretty cool in it : Cacique Maravilla (mentioned above) has a Pet-Nat Pais. Looking forward to trying it.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#104 Post by Ken Zinns »

Andrew Hall wrote: December 19th, 2020, 9:21 am I got a "blind box" from a natty wine group and there was something pretty cool in it : Cacique Maravilla (mentioned above) has a Pet-Nat Pais. Looking forward to trying it.
Had a Pet-Nat Pais from Louis-Antoine Luyt last year that was quite nice.

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#105 Post by Adam Frisch »

Just had some sad news.

Got a call from Toby Riolo and the Riolo family about their 75-year old head trained Mission vineyard in El Dorado/Placer County. Last year they pulled out half of them and took a wait-and-see approach (as it had been hard to find customers for the fruit). Pruning costs on old head trained vines are pretty high, as one can understand, so when one last buyer fell through, Richard Riolo said he'd had enough and they pulled out all the vines this year. Breaks my heart to hear about such old vines getting torn out, but I also understand the plight of the farmers and the reality they face daily. It's extra sad that they couldn't hold off just a little bit longer, because I know for a fact that demand for Mission has increased considerably last few years. I myself was interested in buying from them, but never got a call back in time to change any outcome. Anyway, the vineyard is now a cow pasture instead, so didn't even get replanted. Too bad. The Mission vineyards are falling by the wayside. [beg.gif]
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#106 Post by K N Haque »

For those looking for more Mission/Pais: Parcelle Wine has the 2019 Catalina Ugarte Pais for $29 as their daily offer (these last anywhere from 1-4 days in my experience). If you have Parcelle Wines as a $20 off $75 offer on your Amex card, this may be a good offer.

If you are a new customer at Parcelle, you can save another $10 through this link: http://parcellewine.refr.cc/kbnhaque
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#107 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

As mentioned by Adam, in Argentina the grape Mission is known as Criolla Chica, but we also have two other varieties that are crossings between Mission and Muscat of Alexandria: Criolla Grande (Red) and Cereza (Pink skinned), being the later one widely planted in Argentina. Unfortunately, as what happened with Mission in the US, these 3 grapes were deeply underappreciated and used for bulk wine making. The good news is that with a new generation of wine makers this is changing for good and we now have some fine examples of wines made of these 3 varieties. Here are a couple of my favorites:

- Passionate Wines Via Revolucionaria La Criolla Grande (Mostly Criolla Grande with some % of Criolla Chica and Cereza)
https://www.wine.com/product/passionate ... 019/733910

- Durigutti “Cara Sucia“ Tinto de Rivadavia Cereza (100% Cereza)
https://shop.independentspiritsinc.com/ ... ereza.html

Cheers!

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#108 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

Adam Frisch wrote: September 11th, 2019, 8:51 am TN: 2018 Cara Sur Criolla. One of the most expressive ones I’ve had and my first ever from Argentina. Very little of that pepperiness I get with the Chilean ones, but lots of fruit and a powerful mid. Light colored, like most Missions, but an underlying strength that belies the lightness in color. And a great bargain here in the US, too. Under $20.
I have to try that one, 80 year old vine trained using the "Parral" method. I haven't seen any "Parrales" in CA, it's very common in the province of San Juan in Argentina. This is how a typical Parral would look like.
uv1.jpg
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#109 Post by Wes Barton »

Mariano Chiaramonte wrote: April 29th, 2021, 8:32 pm As mentioned by Adam, in Argentina the grape Mission is known as Criolla Chica, but we also have two other varieties that are crossings between Mission and Muscat of Alexandria: Criolla Grande (Red) and Cereza (Pink skinned), being the later one widely planted in Argentina. Unfortunately, as what happened with Mission in the US, these 3 grapes were deeply underappreciated and used for bulk wine making. The good news is that with a new generation of wine makers this is changing for good and we now have some fine examples of wines made of these 3 varieties. Here are a couple of my favorites:

- Passionate Wines Via Revolucionaria La Criolla Grande (Mostly Criolla Grande with some % of Criolla Chica and Cereza)
https://www.wine.com/product/passionate ... 019/733910

- Durigutti “Cara Sucia“ Tinto de Rivadavia Cereza (100% Cereza)
https://shop.independentspiritsinc.com/ ... ereza.html

Cheers!
The white varieties Torrontes Riojano and Torrontes Sanjuanito are also Muscat of Alexandria x Criolla Chica. The former is quite good, and there are a few examples findable here in the U.S. K&L has the 2019 Colomé Torrontes Valle Calchaquí Salta, which is high elevation old vines for $12.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#110 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

Wes Barton wrote: April 30th, 2021, 2:53 pm The white varieties Torrontes Riojano and Torrontes Sanjuanito are also Muscat of Alexandria x Criolla Chica. The former is quite good, and there are a few examples findable here in the U.S. K&L has the 2019 Colomé Torrontes Valle Calchaquí Salta, which is high elevation old vines for $12.
You are right! My unconscious bias against Torrontés made me forget to mention it. As all the rest of the "Criollas", Torrontés was deeply neglected for decades, mainly associated with semi sweet wine in Tetra-Pack containers, but the re discovery of this variety as capable of producing good wines started much earlier than their cousins, around the mid '90s, and today you have good quality wine produced by large wineries and exported in big volumes.
Colomé is a great example. I know that the skin contact white wine (aka orange wine) subject can be controversial, but I tried this wine and in my opinion it takes Torrontés to a complete different level (specially the level of acidity that it's pleasantly high).

- Passionate Wines Via Revolucionaria Torrontes Brutal

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/pass ... tina/1/usa

Cheers!

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#111 Post by Andrew Hall »

James Sligh / Children's Atlas of Wine is doing another "Give Pais a Chance" on-line tasting at the end of May. The one last year was super informative as well as a nice spread in the 3 wines. There is plenty of time to order and ship : https://leonandsonwine.com/530-james-sl ... 30-7pm-est (I am doing it but won't be on the Zoom as I will likely be very off-grid.)

I love that Brutal Torrontes! Has at a restaurant in Panama some time ago and was super stoked to see it came to Ohio last year.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#112 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

I have a question about Listan Prieto vs Listan Negro. Is it the same variety?

According to Wikipedia is not: I the first paragraph it reads "Listán Prieto (not to be confused with Listán Negro)". But the interesting (or confusing) part comes in the second paragraph, were it links both grapes to the Californian Mission variety.

So I tried a second approach to the research and I googled "Listan Prieto" using the Spanish version of the search engine and I found this page, which is a Canary Islands grape varieties database: http://vitiscanarias.com (unfortunately it's only in Spanish, fortunately Spanish is my native language). This it what it says about Listán Prieto/Negro:

"Los tres términos usados en Canarias, que por el trabajo de campo entendimos que eran sinónimos, son: Listán Prieto en La Palma, Listán Negro en El Hierro y Negra Legítima en Vilaflor. Encontramos ejemplares también en Gran Canaria pero el nombre que utilizan es indistintamente Negra Legítima o Listán Prieto"

Quick translation: It's the same variety, It's called Listán Prieto in La Palma, Listán Negro in El Hierro, Negra Legítima in Vilaflor and Negra Legítima or Listán Prieto indistinctly in Gran Canaria.

An it makes sense, at least linguistically speaking, because in certain parts of the Canaries and in Cuba "Prieto" = "Negro" = "Black" ("Preto" in Portuguese).

Any thoughts?

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#113 Post by Al Osterheld »

According to the tome Wine Grapes by Jancis Robinson and others, Listan Negro and Listan Prieto have distinct DNA profiles, and Mission in California (and Mexico and South America) is genetically identical to Listan Prieto.

-Al

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#114 Post by Ken Zinns »

Mariano Chiaramonte wrote: May 6th, 2021, 3:02 pm I have a question about Listan Prieto vs Listan Negro. Is it the same variety?

According to Wikipedia is not: I the first paragraph it reads "Listán Prieto (not to be confused with Listán Negro)". But the interesting (or confusing) part comes in the second paragraph, were it links both grapes to the Californian Mission variety.

So I tried a second approach to the research and I googled "Listan Prieto" using the Spanish version of the search engine and I found this page, which is a Canary Islands grape varieties database: http://vitiscanarias.com (unfortunately it's only in Spanish, fortunately Spanish is my native language). This it what it says about Listán Prieto/Negro:

"Los tres términos usados en Canarias, que por el trabajo de campo entendimos que eran sinónimos, son: Listán Prieto en La Palma, Listán Negro en El Hierro y Negra Legítima en Vilaflor. Encontramos ejemplares también en Gran Canaria pero el nombre que utilizan es indistintamente Negra Legítima o Listán Prieto"

Quick translation: It's the same variety, It's called Listán Prieto in La Palma, Listán Negro in El Hierro, Negra Legítima in Vilaflor and Negra Legítima or Listán Prieto indistinctly in Gran Canaria.

An it makes sense, at least linguistically speaking, because in certain parts of the Canaries and in Cuba "Prieto" = "Negro" = "Black" ("Preto" in Portuguese).

Any thoughts?
According to the Jancis Robinson et al. book “Wine Grapes”, Listán Negro and Listán Prieto are two distinct varieties with different DNA profiles. I haven’t seen any recent article from any sort of authoritative source that disputes this.

It’s possible that some localities in the Canary Islands may refer to Listán Negro as Listán Prieto but true Listán Prieto is a different variety. Also very possible that both varieties grow on the islands and that this particular article is simply incorrect in asserting that they’re the same.
Last edited by Ken Zinns on May 6th, 2021, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#115 Post by Al Osterheld »

It's no surprise people sometimes call me Ken (but they never call him Al).

-Al

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#116 Post by Ken Zinns »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 6th, 2021, 3:52 pm It's no surprise people sometimes call me Ken (but they never call him Al).

-Al
I’ve been called Al a few times!
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#117 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

Ken Zinns wrote: May 6th, 2021, 3:50 pm
It’s possible that some localities in the Canary Islands may refer to Listán Negro as Listán Prieto but true Listán Prieto is a different variety. Also very possible that both varieties grow on the islands and that this particular article is simply incorrect in asserting that they’re the same.
Right, an it looks like the confusion comes from El Hierro, where they grow Listán Prieto but they call it Listán Negro.

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#118 Post by Drew Goin »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 6th, 2021, 3:49 pm According to the tome Wine Grapes by Jancis Robinson and others, Listan Negro and Listan Prieto have distinct DNA profiles, and Mission in California (and Mexico and South America) is genetically identical to Listan Prieto.

-Al

Thanks for the insight, Al! [cheers.gif]


When in doubt, I go to the Vitis International Variety Catalogue (VIVC) website...

· "Listán Negro"

- Parentage: "Mollar Cano" x "Palomino Fino"


· "Listán Prieto"

- Synonyms include: "Mission", "Criolla Chica", "Listán Negro/a", etc...

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#119 Post by Drew Goin »

I doubt this is news to the hardcore fans, but Hendry in Napa Valley has been bottling some Mission from the family's estate vineyard. The most recent release was from the 2019 vintage.


Bohemian
"First in Napa: Hendry Wines is on a Mission"

by James Knight
April 19, 2017


"...When [Mike] Hendry happened upon a varietal Mission wine from Guadalupe Valley, Mexico, he thought it was pretty OK. For an experiment, he chose 20 buds each of four Mission clones that Foundation Plant Services at UC Davis maintains in its collection. The hard part was convincing his Uncle George, who began replanting the vineyard in the 1970s (and still leads tours of the winery and vineyards), to bud over four rows of his Napa Valley Cabernet Franc—which sells for top dollar—to the now-obscure and maligned Mission.

"One of the clones performed best, with lower yields than typical—indeed, a vine that threw a crop of biblical proportions was likely a top draw for the friars. 'It’s like a nice Gamay,' Hendry says of the wine it makes. 'I think everyone in the wine business at least ought to taste it'...".


Hendry Vineyards website:
http://www.hendrywines.com/

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#120 Post by Ken Zinns »

I brought a bottle of the 2019 Pax Somers Vineyard Mission to share with the crew at a Broc Cellars bottling day lunch yesterday - first time I've tried the Pax rendition of Mission. It reminded me quite a bit of the Harrington Mission bottlings from the same vineyard, especially in the distinctive Mission aromatics. I may have only opened one Broc Mission from this vineyard so I don't have as much experience with that one, but I recall it being similar too.

The winemaking notes I've seen for the Pax bottling mention 100% whole-cluster fermentation, and I wonder how much (if any) of that was carbonic, since the wine reminded me so much of the Harrington, which was 50% carbonic and 50% lightly foot-trod whole-cluster. Most whole-cluster fermentations that are not heavily foot-trod will have some carbonic character but we did the whole "toss the clusters into a tank with dry ice and seal it for a few weeks" route for the carbonic component of the Harrington Missions.

Anyway, I enjoyed the Pax quite a bit - light and refreshing with enough structure to hold it together and those distinctive Mission aromatics.

pax 2019 mission 2.jpg
pax 2019 mission 1.jpg
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#121 Post by Drew Goin »

Ken Zinns wrote: May 7th, 2021, 7:07 am I brought a bottle of the 2019 Pax Somers Vineyard Mission to share with the crew at a Broc Cellars bottling day lunch yesterday...

The winemaking notes I've seen for the Pax bottling mention 100% whole-cluster fermentation, and I wonder how much (if any) of that was carbonic, since the wine reminded me so much of the Harrington, which was 50% carbonic and 50% lightly foot-trod whole-cluster. Most whole-cluster fermentations that are not heavily foot-trod will have some carbonic character but we did the whole "toss the clusters into a tank with dry ice and seal it for a few weeks" route for the carbonic component of the Harrington Missions.

Anyway, I enjoyed the Pax quite a bit - light and refreshing with enough structure to hold it together and those distinctive Mission aromatics.
Thanks for the tasting note, Ken!!! [cheers.gif]

Out of curiosity...

· What do you personally consider to be "those distinctive Mission aromatics"? Not a test, just wanted your opinion.


· There has been a bit a of pushback against ultra-gentle handling of Mission. Adam of Sabelli-Frisch, for example, opts for greater extraction in his Mission winemaking procedures. I do scratch my head at the idea of scouting the state for a high-quality, old-vine fruit source, sweating over picking at an optimal date, then adopting a winemaking process that rarely gives the grapes a strong voice. In your opinion, does carbonic maceration get a bad wrap with respect to Mission wines?


· Did the Harrington Corvina receive the same treatment as the Mission? I recall being struck by the darker-shade-of-rosé quality of Harrington's Corvina. I assumed it was whole-cluster/carbonic at the time, although I don't recall picking up signature "Banana Runtz and Cotton Candy" notes in the glass. Does blending in whole-cluster juice counter the heavy-handed effects of carbonic in the final wine?

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#122 Post by Ken Zinns »

Drew Goin wrote: May 7th, 2021, 12:29 pm
Ken Zinns wrote: May 7th, 2021, 7:07 am I brought a bottle of the 2019 Pax Somers Vineyard Mission to share with the crew at a Broc Cellars bottling day lunch yesterday...

The winemaking notes I've seen for the Pax bottling mention 100% whole-cluster fermentation, and I wonder how much (if any) of that was carbonic, since the wine reminded me so much of the Harrington, which was 50% carbonic and 50% lightly foot-trod whole-cluster. Most whole-cluster fermentations that are not heavily foot-trod will have some carbonic character but we did the whole "toss the clusters into a tank with dry ice and seal it for a few weeks" route for the carbonic component of the Harrington Missions.

Anyway, I enjoyed the Pax quite a bit - light and refreshing with enough structure to hold it together and those distinctive Mission aromatics.
Thanks for the tasting note, Ken!!! [cheers.gif]

Out of curiosity...

· What do you personally consider to be "those distinctive Mission aromatics"? Not a test, just wanted your opinion.


· There has been a bit a of pushback against ultra-gentle handling of Mission. Adam of Sabelli-Frisch, for example, opts for greater extraction in his Mission winemaking procedures. I do scratch my head at the idea of scouting the state for a high-quality, old-vine fruit source, sweating over picking at an optimal date, then adopting a winemaking process that rarely gives the grapes a strong voice. In your opinion, does carbonic maceration get a bad wrap with respect to Mission wines?


· Did the Harrington Corvina receive the same treatment as the Mission? I recall being struck by the darker-shade-of-rosé quality of Harrington's Corvina. I assumed it was whole-cluster/carbonic at the time, although I don't recall picking up signature "Banana Runtz and Cotton Candy" notes in the glass. Does blending in whole-cluster juice counter the heavy-handed effects of carbonic in the final wine?
Drew, it's sort of hard to describe the Mission aromatics, but to me they're immediately distinctive, not really like any other variety I'm familiar with. It's basically a delicate red-fruited profile, but different than other varieties. Try a few, and I think you'll pick up the distinctive character as well - I've found it in a broad range of Mission and Pais wines. Now that delicate aromatic character can be overshadowed by other things - a number of Mission / Pais bottlings I've had from outside of California have had unfortunate levels of Brett that dominated the wine to its detriment. And the one bottle of Adam's Mission, while a fine wine for sure, didn't have what I think of as the variety's distinctive aromatics either - in a blind tasting, nearly everyone thought it was a Pinot Noir.

We went with a carbonic component to the Harrington Mission since the Pais bottlings several of us had liked all used either partly or entirely carbonic fermentation. Carbonic, when used judiciously, can bring out the fruit and aromatics from a variety, and that's what we were aiming for. But in the initial trials of different fermentation techniques in 2015, we felt that 100% carbonic was too much, and the foot-trod whole-cluster component brought the carbonic part back into balance. The wine was always meant as a short-term, fun wine, never anything profound. I don't know that the variety is capable of making profound wines (except for Angelica) though I'll certainly be interested to see how Adam's Mission bottlings develop - I'd be happy to see him prove me wrong! :-)

The Harrington Corvina never had any carbonic fermentation as far as I can recall - I believe it was always entirely destemmed.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#123 Post by Al Osterheld »

I haven't had Adam's Mission, made in a different style. As far as Bryan's, I liked it for near term drinking with the fresh fruit and spice aromatics and medium body. The carbonic component definitely added to that profile, I don't think it would have been nearly as appealing without it. As I recall, it was always the first wine to sell out and was very popular by the glass in restaurants (remember those?), Bryan even sold some in small kegs.

The Somers vineyard has very old vines, but it's not what most would consider classic dirt for a vineyard, it's basically river bottom sandy silt and very rich by standards of a typical vineyard. You don't want to step on the varietal character, and I think the carbonic accentuates rather than dominates, but I don't think there is any special terroir.

BTW, I think the banana aromas in some Beaujolais comes from a particular yeast more than from the carbonic maceration.

-Al

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#124 Post by Wes Barton »

+1 to what Al said. CM got a bad rap from a crappy yeast strain in cheap Bojo. There are fantastic wines being made around the world employing partial or full CM. It can create wonderful aromatics that make a wine enjoyable young. Much of the characteristics fade away pretty quickly, but if the wine is built to age well it will.

Imo, the serious wine from Mission is Angelica that sees a decade or so in barrel. Though, the comparison we got was a current/young release with short barrel aging vs a barrel sample with a decade on it. We'll have to wait how our bottles age.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#125 Post by Adam Frisch »

Drew Goin wrote: May 7th, 2021, 12:29 pm

· What do you personally consider to be "those distinctive Mission aromatics"? Not a test, just wanted your opinion.
I think Raj Parr put it best: Campari notes. That's a very good summary of the kind of tannic and fruity combo Mission tends to throw up. But it differs from region to region. I get a lot more peppery notes from the South American ones, I get Campari from North American ones and I get dirt, mushroom and a little more closedness from the Canary Islands one. The one exception is the recently mentioned Hendry - that feels much earthier and more like the Canary Island ones. A bit of anomaly in the NA lineup. Other notes are normally a very pronounced strawberry vibe and in some cases veering towards a tawny note.

The Pax one is excellent.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#126 Post by Al Osterheld »

The Canary Island wines are in that volcanic soil, but also most of the ones I've seen are mostly Listan Negro. I think I've only had one 100% Listan Prieto from the Canary Islands.

Also, the vines in Canary Islands, North America, and South America have been isolated from each other for a very long time.

-Al

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#127 Post by Adam Frisch »

For me, Mission throws up so much fruit that I personally don't see the need to enhance that with carbonic (although I do enjoy that style when done by other producers). I suppose I'm taking a slightly more long term view of Mission. I think in order to grow acceptance of it and also the long term viability beyond being a "hipster re-discovery grape", it needs to step away from the glou-glou bracket it often finds itself in. I wanted to treat it like any other age-worthy grape and apply classic winemaking practices to it. The jury's still out on if this grape is well suited to that. I'm betting it is, but I could be wrong.

BTW, I was just a few weeks ago at an impromptu wine-tasting of 6 different producers here in LA who all make Mission from Somers Vineyard. It was extremely interesting to see the wildly various different expressions, all from the same place. Out of all 6 of the wines, only 1 of them I would say did not quite cut it - most of them were very enjoyable. Wines were:

2019 Nue Wilde
2020 Free Your Soul - Wonderwerk
2019 El Bebote
???? Broc Cellars
2020 Belafonte - VDC Wine
2019 La Malinche

I'm just happy there are so many producers making wine from it again. Only by having more producers can quality and acceptance grow. And one more thing - Mission is unique in it's flavor profile. Nothing quite tastes like it. That might put a few people off, of course, but it's also its USP and brings in people.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#128 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

My first encounter with the Mission/Pais/Listán Prieto/Criolla Chica variety: 2019 Cara Sur Criolla Chica, Calingasta Valley, San Juan, Argentina.

Served slightly chilled by the glass at Tigre Restaurant & Bar, Miami. From memory, translucent bright ruby color, a little cloudiness but almost imperceptible. The aroma was pure ripe watermelon, not the type of watermelon bubblegum that I get in certain Bojos, this was pure fruit aromas, didn't get much else on the nose but I think that the low serving temperature might have muted the wine a little bit. What really got me was the palate, as I was expecting a light glou glou type of wine. Instead it presented a fairly serious structure, with assertive fine tannins and mouth watering but not overwhelming acidity. This combination of light color/simple fruity nose with an unexpected structured palate remained me of the Piedmontese variety grignolino. The overall experience was a serious fun-to-drink wine, that didn't come shy compared with a (really) serious 2011 Christophe Buisson Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Argillieres that we drank side-by-side.
IMG_5171.jpg
Technical Notes

Vineyard: 1 acre, planted in the 1930s at altitude 4920ft, trained using the Parral (Pergola) method, Yield: 4 tons/acre
Winemaking: 20 day fermentation using native yeasts, 30% whole cluster. Élevage: 8 months in concrete egg w/ lees contact, bottled unfiltered and unfined.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#129 Post by Adam Frisch »

Mariano Chiaramonte wrote: May 8th, 2021, 3:05 pm My first encounter with the Mission/Pais/Listán Prieto/Criolla Chica variety: 2019 Cara Sur Criolla Chica, Calingasta Valley, San Juan, Argentina.

Served slightly chilled by the glass at Tigre Restaurant & Bar, Miami. From memory, translucent bright ruby color, a little cloudiness but almost imperceptible. The aroma was pure ripe watermelon, not the type of watermelon bubblegum that I get in certain Bojos, this was pure fruit aromas, didn't get much else on the nose but I think that the low serving temperature might have muted the wine a little bit. What really got me was the palate, as I was expecting a light glou glou type of wine. Instead it presented a fairly serious structure, with assertive fine tannins and mouth watering but not overwhelming acidity. This combination of light color/simple fruity nose with an unexpected structured palate remained me of the Piedmontese variety grignolino. The overall experience was a serious fun-to-drink wine, that didn't come shy compared with a (really) serious 2011 Christophe Buisson Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Argillieres that we drank side-by-side.

IMG_5171.jpg

Technical Notes

Vineyard: 1 acre, planted in the 1930s at altitude 4920ft, trained using the Parral (Pergola) method, Yield: 4 tons/acre
Winemaking: 20 day fermentation using native yeasts, 30% whole cluster. Élevage: 8 months in concrete egg w/ lees contact, bottled unfiltered and unfined.
Have a bottle hanging in cellar still and really enjoyed the first one I had. Looks like that high elevation does some interesting things to Mission. This is certainly one of the best ones I've had.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#130 Post by Mariano Chiaramonte »

Adam Frisch wrote: May 8th, 2021, 9:53 pm Have a bottle hanging in cellar still and really enjoyed the first one I had. Looks like that high elevation does some interesting things to Mission. This is certainly one of the best ones I've had.
My next bottle of Mission will be either La Malinche or Hernan [cheers.gif]

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#131 Post by Andrew Hall »

Mariano Chiaramonte wrote: May 8th, 2021, 3:05 pm My first encounter with the Mission/Pais/Listán Prieto/Criolla Chica variety: 2019 Cara Sur Criolla Chica, Calingasta Valley, San Juan, Argentina.
I had this back in September as part of the Children's Atlas of Wine tasting. Really liked it.
  • 2019 Cara Sur Criolla Chica - Argentina, San Juan, Calingasta Valley (9/29/2020)
    Beautiful glowy light red color. Cinnamon nose. Good texture. Amarena. Nano tannin + all fruit and acid structure. Compact and precise. Really bright and leading to floral. Slight bitters, more Amarena to finish. Lovely and lively.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#132 Post by Drew Goin »

Mission remains subject to so many regionally distinct names. By no means is the phenomenon unique to this grape variety, but it made me wonder how much work has been invested in determining how many of the vine plantings are the real deal.


Research Gate website: American Journal of Enology and Viticulture, Vol. 58
"Determining the Spanish Origin of Representative Ancient American Grapevine Varieties"

Authors: Milla, Alejandra, Cabezas; Jose Antonio; Cabello, Félix; Lacombe, Thierry; Martínez-Zapater, José; Hinrichsen, Patricio; Cervera, Maria Teresa
January 1, 2007

Abstract:

"Genotypic analysis of ancient grapevine accessions from Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Peru, and the United States reveals that most correspond to two ancient cultivars still cultivated in Spain: Muscat of Alexandria and Listán Prieto. The latter is grown throughout North and South America under different names such as País, Criolla Chica, Negra Peruana, Misión, and Mission. Most remaining ancient American cultivar genotypes analyzed correspond to hybrid progeny of Muscat of Alexandria, Listán Prieto, or both. We conclude that these two cultivars are major founders of ancient American viticulture."

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