The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

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Sean S y d n e y
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#51 Post by Sean S y d n e y » March 7th, 2020, 6:11 am

What a wonderful & incredibly informative thread.

We're currently pouring two of the Gonzalez Bastias selections by the glass at the wine bar I work at and it's my first real experience with Pais. The Tinaja is sort of like gamay gone bad (in a good way) with a lovely wild, spicy quality - great with a slight chill on it - and the Naranjo skin contact is like elderflower juice; has incredible freshness missing from so many orange wines that I crave if I'm going to have more than a few sips and people of all levels of experience with wine seem to absolutely adore it. I've also had their Matorral which seems to have a bit more oomph, rusticity and pepperiness.

I would love the chance to try some of the California expressions mentioned here.

Thanks to all again for showcasing this beguiling grape!
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#52 Post by Hank Victor » March 12th, 2020, 6:17 pm

2976D83D-9B27-4706-B70B-7473ED22DD90.jpeg
Pax 2019 Mission
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#53 Post by Ken Zinns » March 12th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Criolla Chica from Argentina. Notes below from a tasting I attended this past Saturday.

35104654-6BCA-4248-8C42-DEA6C0DA5642.jpeg

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This century-old Argentine family winery from the Mendoza region launched a new “La Marchigiana” program of natural wines in 2019 with three bottlings – Chardonnay, Criolla Chica, and Bonarda. These wines are fermented in tinajas – traditional clay vessels similar to amphorae or qvevri. They poured one wine at the event, the 2017 “La Marchigiana” Criolla Chica, from Mendoza, with no added sulfur. Criolla Chica is the same grape variety as País in Chile and Mission in California, and the similar character was evident – light color with upfront red fruit, undertones of earth and herbs, and fairly light body with a lively texture and finish.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#54 Post by Hank Victor » March 13th, 2020, 6:36 am

Ken Zinns wrote:
March 6th, 2020, 1:06 pm
Hank Victor wrote:
March 6th, 2020, 10:32 am
Pax just released a new Mission wine today in his Spring Release. (Adam mentioned him buying 20 tons in post #26)

2019 Pax Mission, Somer’s Vineyard

Savory and spicy on the nose this light red adds copious floral and fruity notes on the palate that mix with hints of pepper and umami to make for a deliciously quaffable red that has just enough crunchy tannin to keep everything in check.

100% Mission
100% Somers Vineyard, Mokelumne River, Lodi
100% Whole Cluster Fermentation
4-Month élevage in Neutral French Oak and one month in Concrete
Free So2 @ Bottling – 4ppm
3.6 pH
12.5% Abv

Planted in the dry riverbed at a sharp bend of the Lower Mokelumne River and presumed to date back to the the early 1900s, these old vines have exceptionally large trunks and many are over six feet tall. The deep sandy loam soils are incredibly well suited to dry farming and these vines have been farmed with organic products since day one. Delicious with tacos or tikka masala, Burgers or Bahn Mis, this light red is just about perfect with everything we’ve paired it with to date.

A photo to give you an idea of how tall some of the old Mission vines are at Somers Vineyard (it’s Somers, not Somer’s, BTW) - that’s Bryan Harrington checking out the vines on our first visit there in 2015.


9569A60F-10BC-46F0-9532-FDED845180E7.jpeg

I have to take some credit for finding this vineyard source, when I was working with Bryan Harrington. I was looking for Mission fruit in 2015 to make Angelica, and asked Marco Cappelli (the most knowledgeable winemaker regarding Angelica) if he had any tips. He mentioned Deaver but thought they would not have any fruit available, and then mentioned this vineyard, which didn’t even have a name at that time. I got in touch with the vineyard manager, and they did have fruit available. Most of their fruit at that time was going to a larger outfit - can’t recall who it was - and they weren’t doing anything very interesting with it.

I got Bryan Harrington to take a look at the vineyard with me and he loved it - sandy alluvial soil right in the Mokelumne River bottom - and decided to take some Mission fruit himself to see if we could make a good wine from it. We experimented with several different fermentation techniques and what we liked best was 50% each carbonic and foot-trod whole cluster. The wine was then aged for a few months in neutral French oak and bottled in early Spring. Made some good early-drinking 2015 Mission wine from that, and the Angelica turned out really well too. Likely the first “serious” dry Mission wine to come from that site (IIRC Marco had made some Angelica from here).The Somers name comes from the vineyard property owner.

I help out with bottling at Broc Cellars and got Chris Brockway connected with the vineyard manager in 2016 - I believe he’s continuing to work with fruit from there. Now that Bryan is no longer making wine, it’s great to see Chris, Adam, and now Pax continue working with Somers Vineyard Mission.
They misspelled the vineyard on the label.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#55 Post by Adam Frisch » March 13th, 2020, 9:25 am

So, how is the Pax one?
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#56 Post by Ken Zinns » March 13th, 2020, 9:29 am

Hank Victor wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 6:36 am
Ken Zinns wrote:
March 6th, 2020, 1:06 pm
it’s Somers, not Somer’s, BTW
They misspelled the vineyard on the label.
Well, I've seen vineyard names, AVAs, even grape varieties misspelled on wine labels. I know some were typos that didn't get caught when checking the label proofs, but I'm sure that others were due to not knowing how things were properly spelled. It happens.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#57 Post by Hank Victor » March 14th, 2020, 7:56 am

Adam Frisch wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 9:25 am
So, how is the Pax one?
Pretty neat wine. 12.5 abv but a pretty intense tannin structure. A lot of spicy , floral and savory notes not much fruit. Served chilled and with food. I bought a 6 pack for a buddy and took one bottle but I don’t see myself seeking this out again. Still a very interesting and good wine for $18.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#58 Post by Ken Zinns » March 14th, 2020, 10:03 am

Hank Victor wrote:
March 14th, 2020, 7:56 am
Adam Frisch wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 9:25 am
So, how is the Pax one?
Pretty neat wine. 12.5 abv but a pretty intense tannin structure. A lot of spicy , floral and savory notes not much fruit. Served chilled and with food. I bought a 6 pack for a buddy and took one bottle but I don’t see myself seeking this out again. Still a very interesting and good wine for $18.
Thanks for the note, Hank. It would be interesting to taste this alongside the other Missions from Somers Vineyard - Sabelli-Frisch, Broc, and Harrington. Though I don't know whether there's any Harrington Mission still available anywhere - 2017 was the last vintage we released and it was always meant for early drinking.

The "not much fruit" aspect of your tasting note is largely why we did 50% whole cluster and 50% carbonic with the Mission at Harrington - whole cluster to provide structure and complexity and carbonic to bring out the fruit. We experimented with several fermentation techniques the first year we got the fruit (2015) and that combination worked best for giving us what we were looking for. Mission does tend to have more tannin than you'd expect for such a light-colored red.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#59 Post by Adam Frisch » March 14th, 2020, 11:43 am

Yes, Mission is more tannic than it would appear.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#60 Post by Tom DeBiase » March 23rd, 2020, 7:40 am

Cross Post.

From a Vineyard planted in 1854!! Now those are some old vines

2017 Sandlands Mission Amador County Wine:

Fruity raspberry candy, spicy nose. Cranberry-raspberry red fruit flavors, big hit of cinnamon stick and hints of sweet orange. Fruit is plenty ripe but not overdone. Low on acidity but not clumsy as there is some tannin to help keep it fresh. 2017 vintage shows here. Fruit is ripe but still staying on the "red" side. Overall, not a profound wine but very drinkable and enjoyable. I can see putting a slight chill on this for the hot summer weather. 12.9% ABV for those interested. After having this I would love to try the 2018 version to see vintage differences.
IMG_20200322_183010.jpg

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#61 Post by Ken Zinns » March 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am

Thanks for posting your note, Tom. I'd be really curious to try this one. Any info on how the wine was made?

I'm sure I've posted the photo below farther up in this thread, but this is one of the old Mission vines at Deaver Ranch, where the fruit for this wine was sourced, from a visit there with Ken Deaver last May. As far as is known, these are the oldest continuously-producing commercial winegrape vines in California.

04 deaver mission vines.jpg
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#62 Post by Adam Frisch » March 25th, 2020, 6:02 pm

I think I've managed to get Tegan to agree to swap one of his for one of mine, but not sure... [thumbs-up.gif]

It's been awhile since I had his Mission. Think it was the first vintage, so can't really recall how it was, but I remember it as good.
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Re: Here's One..

#63 Post by Ken Zinns » June 17th, 2020, 5:47 pm

TomHill wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 8:10 am
Tried this last weekend:
2. Bichi Listan Tacate/BajaCalif/MX (12.5%; U; www.JosePastorSelections) Tellez & Luyt/Tecate 2016: Light garnet bit browning rather cloudy/murky color; quite pretty floral/rose petal rather spicy/cinammon light pencilly/old oak some earthy/dusty/OV very fragrant/attractive nose rather soft/underacid/fat some old oak/pencilly very strong floral/rose petal slight natty/coarse/rustic rather earthy/dusty/OV some tangy/mature complex flavor w/ light coarse/tangy tannins; very long floral/rose petal/spicy/cinammon slight natty/mousey/hantavirus finish w/ light tangy tannins; very lovely/attractive floral nose but a bit too natty/hantavirus/unclean on the palate for my taste.
Next day: Bit more browning in color; still some pretty/Mission/rose petal aromatics but the natty/hantavirus character showing in the nose; very light floral/rose petal rather natty/hantavirus flavor w/ a dreadful mousey/natty/hantavirus/stale mouse poop finish that went on & on for several minutes; difficult to extinguish that foul taste left in the mouth even w/ sparkling water; maybe the foulest wine I have ever tasted. $23.00 (KK)
_______________________________
A wee BloodyPulpit:
1. "Bichi" means "naked" in the Sonoran dialect. It reflects that Bichi produces "natural" wines, since 2014. From 100 yo vines. Fermeted in large tinajas. Bttld w/ 10 ppm SO2.
When tasted as a P&P, the aromatics demonstrated what a pretty wine Mission (Listan Prieta) can give, in the right hands. These were not the right hands for this wine.
When I tasted it the naxt day, it was probably the foulest wine I've ever tasted. The hantavirus was not an aftertaste you could get rid of. The wine is definitely headed South at a breakneck pace. I will probably buy another btl and age it for a few yrs just to find out how really bad this wine will become.
Tom
Tom, I happened to have the 2017 Bichi Listan yesterday at lunch at a Broc Cellars bottling. I've had really mixed luck with Bichi wines, very hit or miss. But the bottle we had at lunch was very nice, certainly among the best (and cleanest) Bichi wines I've tried.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#64 Post by Adam Frisch » June 23rd, 2020, 8:29 pm

For the nerds and Ken:

Just had word via social media that 3 of the Angeleno wineries that take fruit exclusively from Los Angeles County have found a dormant Mission vineyard in northern part of the County and are reviving it. It's apparently planted in 1899, which should make it one of the oldest surviving (after the Mission San Gabriel and Olvera St "mother vine" stem). Anyway, it probably wont yield much initially as it's been seriously neglected, but maybe for 2021 harvest.

It's fun that traditionally much more classically focused wineries are now trying their hands with Mission. Gives it more legitimacy. I can see it filling a little domestic Gamay or Nebbiolo niche in the future, maybe. The more the merrier. [thumbs-up.gif]
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#65 Post by Ken Zinns » June 23rd, 2020, 8:49 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:29 pm
For the nerds and Ken:

Just had word via social media that 3 of the Angeleno wineries that take fruit exclusively from Los Angeles County have found a dormant Mission vineyard in northern part of the County and are reviving it. It's apparently planted in 1899, which should make it one of the oldest surviving (after the Mission San Gabriel and Olvera St "mother vine" stem). Anyway, it probably wont yield much initially as it's been seriously neglected, but maybe for 2021 harvest.

It's fun that traditionally much more classically focused wineries are now trying their hands with Mission. Gives it more legitimacy. I can see it filling a little domestic Gamay or Nebbiolo niche in the future, maybe. The more the merrier. [thumbs-up.gif]
Nice - sounds intriguing! I should have another Mission report in a couple of days.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#66 Post by Ken Zinns » June 25th, 2020, 9:40 pm

I wanted to post a brief note on two Mission wines tasted over the past week - Sandlands 2017 and 2018, both sourced from Deaver Ranch in Amador County's Shenandoah Valley. The vines are believed to be the oldest continuously producing commercial winegrape vines in California, possibly dating from 1853 or 1854.

I really enjoyed both of these wines - both were lighter in color and body and had lots of red fruit. The 2017 showed more herbal notes in support and the 2018 had more floral notes, along with an undercurrent of herbs and maybe a touch of orangepeel. Mission is known for not having high acidity, but both of these had pleasant acidity and fairly mild tannins. Both were made from destemmed fruit, and had no additions other than some SO2. Opened both during bottling days at Broc Cellars in Berkeley and in both cases the wines were slightly chilled, which I think is a good way to enjoy them. The 2018 was the consensus favorite of the two, seemed a bit more pure and focused - most Mission wines are not really built for aging so it may be the younger one had a built-in edge there. The Sandlands 2018 Mission was certainly among the best California Mission wines I've tried - nice work from Tegan!

sandlands 2017 mission b.jpg
sandlands 2018 mission.jpg
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#67 Post by Adam Frisch » June 26th, 2020, 7:32 am

Nice! Trying to get my hands on some of the new 2018 Sandlands Mission as I've only had the 2017.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#68 Post by Adam Frisch » July 1st, 2020, 4:53 am

Although reviewed in another thread, though I'd post it here for posterity, too:

2019 Pax Mission: Harvested on the same day I took my 2019 from the same Somers Vineyard in the Mokelumne River AVA. They were around 24 Brix, roughly. Pax and Cappiello took about 20tons between the two of them, which is a pretty respectable amount, considering. Shows that they're confident they can sell it. Wine has the tell-tale sign of Mission: great tannins and smoky, enveloped nature. This wine was probably carbonically fermented, as it seems to retain a bit more fruit than mine in comparison (or maybe fermented at lower temps?). In any case, it's more of a glou-glou approach and a wonderful summer drinker. Straddling that fine line between a serious wine and a summer indulgence. Delicious. 91pts.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#69 Post by larry schaffer » July 1st, 2020, 8:03 am

Rusack has just released their first Mission wine, using grapes from their Ballard Canyon estate from cuttings gathered on Santa Cruz Island from an old island vineyard that was planted at the turn of the 19th Century:

https://www.independent.com/2020/06/30/ ... rape-wine/
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#70 Post by Adam Frisch » July 1st, 2020, 12:53 pm

That's so interesting, Larry, because I spoke to Steven Gerbac, the winemaker, last year trying to source some Mission from him. Someone had told me that they had a little growing in their unique vineyard on Catalina island and weren't interested in using it, but it turns out I got that wrong (there is none growing in Catalina). But we did talk about his Mission growing in Ballard Canyon. He said he'd made a few barrels but wasn't sure "he liked it" or it would ever "get released". But I'm glad to see this years vintage did get bottled! Now I need to get my hands on some!
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#71 Post by Ken Zinns » July 16th, 2020, 2:44 pm

Bottled today at Broc Cellars in Berkeley. 2018 Mission plus two other wines.

7FC6B92D-832C-4631-AA15-9AF42ADE8961.jpeg
CE3C8209-8B69-4879-BDF8-4D003A3D56D9.jpeg
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#72 Post by Adam Frisch » July 16th, 2020, 11:17 pm

Wunderbar! I've had the previous Broc Mission, and it was great. BTW Ken, managed to snatch a Rusack Mission as well (from the winemaker), despite being officially sold out. I have quite a few of various Missions on shelf, by now, be fun to do a little tasting or dinner one time with them. I'm sure only 3 people would turn up (2 being us), but nevertheless... [wink.gif]
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#73 Post by Ken Zinns » July 17th, 2020, 6:19 am

Adam Frisch wrote:
July 16th, 2020, 11:17 pm
Wunderbar! I've had the previous Broc Mission, and it was great. BTW Ken, managed to snatch a Rusack Mission as well (from the winemaker), despite being officially sold out. I have quite a few of various Missions on shelf, by now, be fun to do a little tasting or dinner one time with them. I'm sure only 3 people would turn up (2 being us), but nevertheless... [wink.gif]
[thumbs-up.gif] [cheers.gif]
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#74 Post by Mark Y » July 17th, 2020, 11:18 pm

Timely thread. Tried the Raj Parr Pais tonight.

It’s aight... light. Fruity. Bright lively rose like. A little natty funk thrown in. What I didn’t like was a hollow mid palate, a rather abrupt end with bitter finish.

Good for a chilled $15-20 casual drinker. How much is the club prices? I hear it’s $75+ which would be uh... not as appealing...😂.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#75 Post by Geoff F. » July 18th, 2020, 1:19 am

It's $30ish, no club membership needed.

Having tasted it with Mark tonight, I agree. It's a crushable summer red best served chilled. I wouldn't drop $35+ on it again though.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#76 Post by Mark Y » July 18th, 2020, 2:02 pm

Geoff F. wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 1:19 am
It's $30ish, no club membership needed.

Having tasted it with Mark tonight, I agree. It's a crushable summer red best served chilled. I wouldn't drop $35+ on it again though.
Ahh ok $30ish makes sense... overpriced, but at least not obscene. ;)
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#77 Post by Andrew Hall » July 18th, 2020, 2:18 pm

Is Harrington Mission still a thing? I had it a couple years ago at Augustine in LA and loved it. Not seen an entry in CT past the 2017, so wasn't sure if it was still made.

Loved the Pax the other night and the Bichi (when on) is absolutely amazing.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#78 Post by Ken Zinns » July 18th, 2020, 6:34 pm

Andrew Hall wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 2:18 pm
Is Harrington Mission still a thing? I had it a couple years ago at Augustine in LA and loved it. Not seen an entry in CT past the 2017, so wasn't sure if it was still made.

Loved the Pax the other night and the Bichi (when on) is absolutely amazing.
Bryan Harrington closed down his winery prior to last year’s harvest and he didn’t release a Mission from 2018, so 2017 was the last vintage of Harrington Mission. Glad you enjoyed it!

Haven’t tried the Pax, and I agree about the Bichi - really nice when you get a good bottle, but my experience has been hit and miss.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#79 Post by Ken Zinns » July 18th, 2020, 6:39 pm

Tasted the Sabelli-Frisch Mission today, thanks to Sean Smith. It was a bagged mystery wine, and I think most people guessed it was a Pinot Noir. Noticeably different from other California Mission wines I’ve tried, but quite good. Nice work, Adam! [cheers.gif]
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#80 Post by Adam Frisch » July 18th, 2020, 7:10 pm

Thanks Ken! And interesting that Sean blinded it - would have loved to be fly on the wall for that. Had another wine tasting group down here do the same with and they also came to the Pinot conclusion, which is interesting. I can kind of see it and not. Maybe it's the lightness that gets people there. [cheers.gif]
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#81 Post by Andrew Hall » July 20th, 2020, 3:06 pm

Ken Zinns wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 6:34 pm
Andrew Hall wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 2:18 pm
Is Harrington Mission still a thing? I had it a couple years ago at Augustine in LA and loved it. Not seen an entry in CT past the 2017, so wasn't sure if it was still made.

Loved the Pax the other night and the Bichi (when on) is absolutely amazing.
Bryan Harrington closed down his winery prior to last year’s harvest and he didn’t release a Mission from 2018, so 2017 was the last vintage of Harrington Mission. Glad you enjoyed it!

Haven’t tried the Pax, and I agree about the Bichi - really nice when you get a good bottle, but my experience has been hit and miss.
Thanks. I thought that but I saw a thread here 'down but not out' on Harrington, so I was confused.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#82 Post by Ken Zinns » July 20th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Andrew Hall wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 3:06 pm
Ken Zinns wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 6:34 pm
Andrew Hall wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 2:18 pm
Is Harrington Mission still a thing? I had it a couple years ago at Augustine in LA and loved it. Not seen an entry in CT past the 2017, so wasn't sure if it was still made.

Loved the Pax the other night and the Bichi (when on) is absolutely amazing.
Bryan Harrington closed down his winery prior to last year’s harvest and he didn’t release a Mission from 2018, so 2017 was the last vintage of Harrington Mission. Glad you enjoyed it!

Haven’t tried the Pax, and I agree about the Bichi - really nice when you get a good bottle, but my experience has been hit and miss.
Thanks. I thought that but I saw a thread here 'down but not out' on Harrington, so I was confused.
Bryan has indeed closed his winery but he still has some wine left to sell! He put together a few 6-pack options on that "down but not out" offering but he's open to working with people if they're interested in specific wines that he still has in stock. I do think he's sold out of all the dry Mission wines but I think he still has some of the Mission Angelica sweet wines available.
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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#83 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » July 31st, 2020, 4:07 pm

A1175AC9-4768-4EC5-8D04-40EBC06658E8.jpeg
Adam Frisch wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 4:53 am
Although reviewed in another thread, though I'd post it here for posterity, too:

2019 Pax Mission: Harvested on the same day I took my 2019 from the same Somers Vineyard in the Mokelumne River AVA. They were around 24 Brix, roughly. Pax and Cappiello took about 20tons between the two of them, which is a pretty respectable amount, considering. Shows that they're confident they can sell it. Wine has the tell-tale sign of Mission: great tannins and smoky, enveloped nature. This wine was probably carbonically fermented, as it seems to retain a bit more fruit than mine in comparison (or maybe fermented at lower temps?). In any case, it's more of a glou-glou approach and a wonderful summer drinker. Straddling that fine line between a serious wine and a summer indulgence. Delicious. 91pts.
Pax is Definitely more glou glou, a light red my wife mistook for a rose. Served at 60F indoors.
A1175AC9-4768-4EC5-8D04-40EBC06658E8.jpeg

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Re: The big Mission/Pais/Listan Prieto thread.

#84 Post by Adam Frisch » August 10th, 2020, 9:43 am

Tried the 2019 Russack Mission in this thread. Loved it.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=172375
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Owner, proprietor and winemaker (with a little help) at Sabelli-Frisch Wines. I make wine from low-impact vineyards, focus on rare, forgotten, under-appreciated or historic grape varietals. Mission grape is my main red focus. IG: sabellifrisch

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