TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

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Todd Tucker
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TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#1 Post by Todd Tucker » July 11th, 2019, 10:08 pm

  • 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken - Germany, Nahe (6/28/2019)
    Bright fresh and clean on the nose. This is as much a geologic as enologic experience. Stony, and electric on the palate, but not shrill (at least for me). It 's like licking rocks and drinking mineral water with some citrus pith and oyster shell, along with a side car of subtle fruit and florals. This has great cut, terrific freshness and clarity. Mouthwatering, vibrant, and youthful. A Rockhead's dream. Love it. (93 pts.)
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Michael Heinrich
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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#2 Post by Michael Heinrich » July 12th, 2019, 10:32 pm

Also ridiculously cheap at ~15€ per bottle. One of the best values in the world.

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Mattstolz
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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#3 Post by Mattstolz » July 13th, 2019, 9:50 am

i would love to hear a little more feedback on the Schafer-Frohlich wines in general if anyone is willing. Ive been eyeing a few bottles of these for a while but never pulled the trigger. are the GGs pretty good value prospects?

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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#4 Post by Doug Schulman » July 13th, 2019, 9:56 am

Mattstolz wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 9:50 am
i would love to hear a little more feedback on the Schafer-Frohlich wines in general if anyone is willing. Ive been eyeing a few bottles of these for a while but never pulled the trigger. are the GGs pretty good value prospects?
I've had Felseneck GG a few times (multiple vintages), and it has always been too big for me. Many people are avid fans and will not agree. It reminds me of FX Pichler's Smaragds: impressive, but tiresome to drink. It seems the price has gotten very high in recent vintages, but as I'm not a buyer, maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#5 Post by Mattstolz » July 13th, 2019, 10:27 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 9:56 am
Mattstolz wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 9:50 am
i would love to hear a little more feedback on the Schafer-Frohlich wines in general if anyone is willing. Ive been eyeing a few bottles of these for a while but never pulled the trigger. are the GGs pretty good value prospects?
I've had Felseneck GG a few times (multiple vintages), and it has always been too big for me. Many people are avid fans and will not agree. It reminds me of FX Pichler's Smaragds: impressive, but tiresome to drink. It seems the price has gotten very high in recent vintages, but as I'm not a buyer, maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
this is why i was curious. ive been looking on JJBuckley and they tend to range from $60-90 which is still a moderately priced GG seems like, but thats also the price i just paid for a Scharzhofberger Kabinett so....

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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#6 Post by Doug Schulman » July 13th, 2019, 10:32 am

I had recently seen an offer for the '17 at $100. Now I see it can be had for significantly less. I guess this isn't relevant after all, but I can only think of a couple of GGs that are above $90.
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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#7 Post by Robert Panzer » July 13th, 2019, 10:44 am

Doug, what vintages of Felseneck are you speaking of when describing them to be too big?
12.5% alcohol for the '16 and '17 and '18, 13% for the '15, all of which have some 8g/L acidity.
If that is too big, what are examples of GGs that you do enjoy?
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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#8 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » July 13th, 2019, 11:13 am

Mattstolz wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 9:50 am
i would love to hear a little more feedback on the Schafer-Frohlich wines in general if anyone is willing. Ive been eyeing a few bottles of these for a while but never pulled the trigger. are the GGs pretty good value prospects?
Schafer-Frohlich makes some of the best wines in the Nahe, in my opinion. There's occasionally some spritziness when young and the GGs in particular need time, but the quality is absolutely there. I have had many bottles across numerous vintages and think the GGs are worth the money, though I don't think they have quite the elegance, depth and balance of Emrich-Schonleber from the same region and even some of the same vineyards. I'm not sure exactly what Doug means by "big," but I have not found them tiring to drink when they have a bit of age on them.

Judging value for anyone else is difficult. Why not just grab a bottle or two and see? The kabinetts and spats are very reasonably priced and, while not GGs, obviously, can give you a solid idea of house style. There's very little risk when you're talking ~$30. If you like Riesling, while I cannot say it will turn out match your preferred profile, I can almost guarantee you won't end up pouring it down the sink!

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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#9 Post by Mattstolz » July 13th, 2019, 11:18 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 11:13 am
Mattstolz wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 9:50 am
i would love to hear a little more feedback on the Schafer-Frohlich wines in general if anyone is willing. Ive been eyeing a few bottles of these for a while but never pulled the trigger. are the GGs pretty good value prospects?
Schafer-Frohlich makes some of the best wines in the Nahe, in my opinion. There's occasionally some spritziness when young and the GGs in particular need time, but the quality is absolutely there. I have had many bottles across numerous vintages and think the GGs are worth the money, though I don't think they have quite the elegance, depth and balance of Emrich-Schonleber from the same region and even some of the same vineyards. I'm not sure exactly what Doug means by "big," but I have not found them tiring to drink when they have a bit of age on them.

Judging value for anyone else is difficult. Why not just grab a bottle or two and see? The kabinetts and spats are very reasonably priced and, while not GGs, obviously, can give you a solid idea of house style. There's very little risk when you're talking ~$30. If you like Riesling, while I cannot say it will turn out match your preferred profile, I can almost guarantee you won't end up pouring it down the sink!
thanks!

Ive always tended to agree with your riesling preferences. I have seen the GGs more often than the Kabis and spats, but if I ever see those from one of my regular shops I will definitely grab and try. what would you consider a good amount of time for the GGs (in general at least, of course will vary depending on vintage!)

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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#10 Post by Doug Schulman » July 13th, 2019, 11:27 am

Robert Panzer wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 10:44 am
Doug, what vintages of Felseneck are you speaking of when describing them to be too big?
12.5% alcohol for the '16 and '17 and '18, 13% for the '15, all of which have some 8g/L acidity.
If that is too big, what are examples of GGs that you do enjoy?
It has been a while. I definitely tried the 2011, as well as (I think) the '10 and maybe the '12. ABV and TA don't tell the whole story. The wines were very ripe and concentrated, lacking the elegance and subtlety that I find in my favorite GGs. A couple of my favorite producers are Keller and Donnhoff.
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Re: TN: 2016 Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Vulkangestein trocken (Germany, Nahe)

#11 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » July 13th, 2019, 11:45 am

Mattstolz wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 11:18 am
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 11:13 am
Mattstolz wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 9:50 am
i would love to hear a little more feedback on the Schafer-Frohlich wines in general if anyone is willing. Ive been eyeing a few bottles of these for a while but never pulled the trigger. are the GGs pretty good value prospects?
Schafer-Frohlich makes some of the best wines in the Nahe, in my opinion. There's occasionally some spritziness when young and the GGs in particular need time, but the quality is absolutely there. I have had many bottles across numerous vintages and think the GGs are worth the money, though I don't think they have quite the elegance, depth and balance of Emrich-Schonleber from the same region and even some of the same vineyards. I'm not sure exactly what Doug means by "big," but I have not found them tiring to drink when they have a bit of age on them.

Judging value for anyone else is difficult. Why not just grab a bottle or two and see? The kabinetts and spats are very reasonably priced and, while not GGs, obviously, can give you a solid idea of house style. There's very little risk when you're talking ~$30. If you like Riesling, while I cannot say it will turn out match your preferred profile, I can almost guarantee you won't end up pouring it down the sink!
thanks!

Ive always tended to agree with your riesling preferences. I have seen the GGs more often than the Kabis and spats, but if I ever see those from one of my regular shops I will definitely grab and try. what would you consider a good amount of time for the GGs (in general at least, of course will vary depending on vintage!)
It's a moving target since the GG classification hasn't been around that long, and most people don't have any examples from those early days. I've always thought 10 years is getting into the sweet spot for most GGs from good vintages, but I'm now coming to think longer might very well be better. We've recently tasted a few GGs from various producers (not S-F, sadly) from 2004 and they have been simply phenomenal, hard to imagine them getting much better. So maybe 15 is more like it? It's tough to call, and is one of the reasons I'm such a huge fan of buying in multiples, when possible. If you're only buying 1 GG bottle, though, I'd use the same protocol as for grand cru white burgundy before premox changed everything. Those wanted 10 - 15 years. If you can't wait that long, I'd try to at least make it 5-7.

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