Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

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Stephen Pepe
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Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#1 Post by Stephen Pepe » July 11th, 2019, 8:57 am

For purposes of this query, assume the cannabis smell is controlled and is no worse than broccoli or brussels sprouts. Should cannabis be grown in vineyard country? The Santa Barbara County Board of Supervisors voted 4-1 to ban cannabis on AG parcels of 20 acres less. Even greenhouses with no odor emissions are banned. Any thoughts or reactions?
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#2 Post by Doug Schulman » July 11th, 2019, 9:20 am

I'd love to see some studies done on this. My gut says it can matter, but not in nearly as many cases as a lot of grape growers believe. That's a wild guess, though. I will say that if someone works with cannabis, the smell can permeate their clothes and be very noticeable hours after they've been around those plants. I don't think that's the case with most other crops.

Side question: is a greenhouse with no odor emissions really possible?
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#3 Post by Stephen Pepe » July 11th, 2019, 10:06 am

Doug. The cannabis growers who spoke at the Board of Supervisors said yes to your question. As a farmer I was troubled by the BOS ban on cannabis, as a crop, with no exceptions. We have broccoli and Brussels Sprouts growing across the road from our vineyard. When it is harvested three-four times per year it smells for a couple of days. No big deal to us. We would never think of asking the BOS to ban it.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#4 Post by Rboinski » July 11th, 2019, 10:22 am

I would say the smell can be absolutely intense and is not compatible in the vicinity of tasting rooms at a minimum. Additionally, there are long standing regions that are remote and perfect for cultivation with families that have relied on it for their livlihood over multiple generations that are hurting due to a permitting process favoring large growers and the subsequent overcultivation. I don't know how the location debate should be resolved as I am fully in support of doing what you want on your own land and personally feel indoor growing is a complete waste of resources, but come mid to late flowering stage outdoor WILL permeate any tasting rooms that aren't filtering their incoming air the same way an indoor grow would be required to filter their exhaust.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#5 Post by GregT » July 11th, 2019, 10:31 am

Interesting question. Would it affect the taste of the finished wine? If so, then maybe it's an issue. And the cannabis that I smell today really stinks like a skunk, whereas the pot of my childhood pretty much smelled like burning grass. I have no clue what the growing plants are like.

As for the workers - people have been smoking around wineries for centuries. Cigars and cigarettes and if you're a non-smoker, the smell is disgusting and the people who smell are usually completely oblivious to their odor. But did it ever affect the taste of the wine? And until emission controls were established, there were diesel fueled trucks and cars driving around vineyards, and prior to that horses crapping around vineyards. So if the aromas are just carried in the wind from time to time, it doesn't seem like it's fair to prohibit one crop in favor of another.

The questions for me would be the resources needed in terms of water, fertilizer, etc., and the effect on the neighbors. It's a problem in several places that I know of - one vineyard wants to be organic and the guy next door grows some cereal crop and dumps pesticides and fertilizers on his field that run off into the vineyard. As a result, the vineyard can't be certified.

Anyway I thought the main problem was competition for workers?
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#6 Post by Markus S » July 11th, 2019, 11:48 am

I don't think Santa Barbara is the right terroir for cannabis. Cab't it be grown in the desert of the Central Valley or bordering the Mojave, Palm Springs area?
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#7 Post by Casey Hartlip » July 11th, 2019, 12:01 pm

In our area (the emerald triangle) weed has been grown since the late 60's. Without getting into the underground economy that was created, it's trying to become mainstream now.

Lots of the folks who have been in the shadows for so long are NOT adjusting well to gov't intervention and taxation to their scene. Workers comp, water issues and all of the things grape growers have been juggling forever are weeding out (sorry too easy) some folks. The mom/pop growers are trying to stay in the shadows and are taking bigger risks.

The fight for labor is very real. I'd say in the last 3 years our costs are up 20% as we compete for farm workers.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#8 Post by Doug Schulman » July 11th, 2019, 12:55 pm

Stephen Pepe wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 10:06 am
Doug. The cannabis growers who spoke at the Board of Supervisors said yes to your question. As a farmer I was troubled by the BOS ban on cannabis, as a crop, with no exceptions. We have broccoli and Brussels Sprouts growing across the road from our vineyard. When it is harvested three-four times per year it smells for a couple of days. No big deal to us. We would never think of asking the BOS to ban it.
I would have serious questions as to whether or not that claim was true. Come harvest time, it seems unlikely. A blanket ban on anything under 20 acres does seem to go way too far, though.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#9 Post by larry schaffer » July 11th, 2019, 4:56 pm

One of the issues that is brought up often is the use of sprays within vineyards - and the possibility of these drifting over into cannabis grows. This could lead to lawsuits filed by the cannabis growers - and this appears to be a real issue.

I posed the question in the past why Napa has not allowed ANY grow to take place - and how they've managed to do that in the face of the new laws.

In addition, one thing that needs to be mentioned is that at present there is no limit to the size of potential cannabis farms in SB County - something that is not common with 'legal' grows at all. Therefore, there are 50+ acre cannabis farms in the area - what other county 'legally' allows that? And from what I understand, there are enough acres planned to plant in SB County alone to fulfill the entire state's cannabis needs . . .

This will be a long and drawn out 'battle' me thinks . . .
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#10 Post by Wes Barton » July 11th, 2019, 5:07 pm

It's been grown indoors in large-scale operations in urban areas for decades. Preventing the aromas from escaping has been a necessary cost of doing business for such operations.

I'm sure its volatile aromatic oils can be drawn into the grape tissue just like so many others are.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#11 Post by Chris Seiber » July 11th, 2019, 5:30 pm

Yet another issue is the low-end armed security that pot growers employ to protect their crop. Another unwelcome sight in wine country.

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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#12 Post by larry schaffer » July 11th, 2019, 5:43 pm

Anyone ITB from Napa or Sonoms want to chime in here?
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#13 Post by H Wallace Jr » July 11th, 2019, 7:40 pm

Stephen Pepe wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:57 am
For purposes of this query, assume the cannabis smell is controlled and is no worse than broccoli or brussels sprouts. Should cannabis be grown in vineyard country?

Yes.

There is plenty of weed grown in the vicinity of several of our vineyards. If there is any side effect, it probably makes me more relaxed with those tricky picking decisions ;)
Stephen Pepe wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:57 am
The Santa Barbara County Board of Supervisors voted 4-1 to ban cannabis on AG parcels of 20 acres less. Even greenhouses with no odor emissions are banned. Any thoughts or reactions?
Reaction- That it is ridiculous. It would seemingly make more sense the other way around (less than 20). Napa's total ban is also nuts.

At a time where the premium wine industry is going through (and will be going through even more) generational & consumer change, allowing cannabis and establishing a healthy coexistence will be a huge win to the region(s) that pull it off.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#14 Post by Alan Rath » July 11th, 2019, 8:02 pm

I hope wine regions everywhere disallow growing of cannabis. It makes zero sense to be using land, water, and human resources that compete with high end grape growing.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#15 Post by Jason T » July 11th, 2019, 8:51 pm

Well, one could argue that it makes little sense to use resources on high-end grape growing that compete with...”real” needs. High-end grapes are a decidedly “first world” phenomenon. But here we are.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#16 Post by C. Mc Cart » July 12th, 2019, 5:02 am

Several winery (ok a few) winery operations in Niagara Ontario have been sold to Cannabis operations so they can grub up the vines and put up greenhouses. Lots of money being thrown around in the province right now.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#17 Post by Doug Schulman » July 12th, 2019, 10:31 am

Alan Rath wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:02 pm
I hope wine regions everywhere disallow growing of cannabis. It makes zero sense to be using land, water, and human resources that compete with high end grape growing.
This is an arbitrary argument that could easily be used in reverse. In fact, I think there are probably far more cannabis consumers in California than fine wine consumers, so the reverse might make more sense. Plus, if there is no problem in many cases, why make a problem?
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#18 Post by Alan Rath » July 12th, 2019, 10:59 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:31 am
Alan Rath wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:02 pm
I hope wine regions everywhere disallow growing of cannabis. It makes zero sense to be using land, water, and human resources that compete with high end grape growing.
This is an arbitrary argument that could easily be used in reverse. In fact, I think there are probably far more cannabis consumers in California than fine wine consumers, so the reverse might make more sense. Plus, if there is no problem in many cases, why make a problem?
I'd like to see some statistics on that. I'm positive I know more people who drink wine than who smoke, but that's probably just my circle of friends. My underlying point is that you need great terroir to grow great wine, but you can grow cannabis anywhere. I'm not listening to arguments that "terroir" is somehow as important to cannabis as it is to wine grapes.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#19 Post by Steve Crawford » July 12th, 2019, 11:25 am

Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:59 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:31 am
Alan Rath wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:02 pm
I hope wine regions everywhere disallow growing of cannabis. It makes zero sense to be using land, water, and human resources that compete with high end grape growing.
This is an arbitrary argument that could easily be used in reverse. In fact, I think there are probably far more cannabis consumers in California than fine wine consumers, so the reverse might make more sense. Plus, if there is no problem in many cases, why make a problem?
I'd like to see some statistics on that. I'm positive I know more people who drink wine than who smoke, but that's probably just my circle of friends. My underlying point is that you need great terroir to grow great wine, but you can grow cannabis anywhere. I'm not listening to arguments that "terroir" is somehow as important to cannabis as it is to wine grapes.
not sure what price point 'fine' is, but I'd say this is correct.

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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#20 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » July 12th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:59 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:31 am
Alan Rath wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:02 pm
I hope wine regions everywhere disallow growing of cannabis. It makes zero sense to be using land, water, and human resources that compete with high end grape growing.
This is an arbitrary argument that could easily be used in reverse. In fact, I think there are probably far more cannabis consumers in California than fine wine consumers, so the reverse might make more sense. Plus, if there is no problem in many cases, why make a problem?
I'd like to see some statistics on that. I'm positive I know more people who drink wine than who smoke, but that's probably just my circle of friends. My underlying point is that you need great terroir to grow great wine, but you can grow cannabis anywhere. I'm not listening to arguments that "terroir" is somehow as important to cannabis as it is to wine grapes.
Let's talk about real numbers. Assume you have a low cropping but high quality Napa Vineyard. What can you get, about $5k per ton, so $10k per acre for the grapes?
You can probably get four crops of cannabis per year off an acre and earn $1-2M. Case closed.

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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#21 Post by Dave McCloskey » July 12th, 2019, 12:23 pm

Stephen Pepe wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 10:06 am
Doug. The cannabis growers who spoke at the Board of Supervisors said yes to your question. As a farmer I was troubled by the BOS ban on cannabis, as a crop, with no exceptions. We have broccoli and Brussels Sprouts growing across the road from our vineyard. When it is harvested three-four times per year it smells for a couple of days. No big deal to us. We would never think of asking the BOS to ban it.
Broccoli and Brussel Sprouts are not FEDERALLY banned plants. Cannibis maybe legal in some states, but not to the Federal government. I'm not weighing in on whether that should be the case, just illustrating a significant distinction.

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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#22 Post by Doug Schulman » July 12th, 2019, 1:05 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:59 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:31 am
Alan Rath wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:02 pm
I hope wine regions everywhere disallow growing of cannabis. It makes zero sense to be using land, water, and human resources that compete with high end grape growing.
This is an arbitrary argument that could easily be used in reverse. In fact, I think there are probably far more cannabis consumers in California than fine wine consumers, so the reverse might make more sense. Plus, if there is no problem in many cases, why make a problem?
I'd like to see some statistics on that. I'm positive I know more people who drink wine than who smoke, but that's probably just my circle of friends. My underlying point is that you need great terroir to grow great wine, but you can grow cannabis anywhere. I'm not listening to arguments that "terroir" is somehow as important to cannabis as it is to wine grapes.
I don't think the bolded statement is true, at least not for high quality (marketable) cannabis on a commercial scale. Now you're talking about the importance of terroir to wine grapes, which the vast majority of wine consumers don't care about. Again, I think you're calling something a problem that doesn't have to be. When it comes to popularity and money, cannabis is going to have a serious advantage over fine wine (see Brent's post), so I think it makes the most sense to try to get along instead of arbitrarily saying one thing "deserves" the land and resources more than the other. Turn it into a fight and cannabis will eventually win in many places. Once national legalization happens (I know it will be a while still, but it will happen), the cannabis industry will include truly big business with FAR more money and resulting political power than wine growers have.

I'm still not seeing a logical argument to support your stance, which is unlike you. Do you just have a problem with cannabis? The thread started as a question about whether these two things can live harmoniously near each other, and you've come out and basically said they shouldn't rather than addressing the question. I don't understand.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#23 Post by Alan Rath » July 12th, 2019, 1:27 pm

Doug, appreciate the compliment, thanks. My comment was more in response to Hardy's post just before mine re Napa/Sonoma. I would be disappointed to see mass turnover of prime vineyard land to cannabis in those areas. Although that might be better than having a huge "Prisoner" tasting room on Hwy 29, lol.

I don't know what fraction of cannabis is grown indoors, or in greenhouses, as opposed to outdoor fields. Obviously you don't need to site greenhouses or indoor growing facilities on land suitable for growing crops, fruit, grapes, etc. Nor (I claim) does it make sense to grow cannabis on what could otherwise be prime vineyard land. My point is that I hope areas known for grape growing resist the switch to cannabis, because cannabis can be grown many more places than can top quality grapes.

I also think it's too early to really know how the economics are going to shake out with cannabis. I would think prices will come down as the market is saturated, making it much a less desirable industry. Eventually it has to become a commodity crop, just like most other produce.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#24 Post by Doug Schulman » July 12th, 2019, 1:40 pm

I see. I do understand what you're saying now. Still, I think there's a big difference between resisting switching prime vineyard land (even if only potentially prime) to cannabis land and banning cannabis cultivation completely in wine regions. Greenhouses will work best in areas that fit certain environmental parameters, and indoor growing is a terrible drain on electricity and other resources (so much more equipment is necessary, for instance). I truly hope the two find ways to coexist. I think that would be best for wine regions. I see a fair amount of sensationalism from people in the wine industry, now supported by a local government in this case, and it isn't helping anything. There's plenty of opportunity now to learn what can work and how, so that everyone prospers.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#25 Post by Alan Rath » July 12th, 2019, 1:45 pm

But why even consider allowing cannabis growing in existing wine regions? Why is more open farmland not equally, or more, suitable? Surely the factors that create great growing conditions for high quality wine grapes aren't the same conditions that produce the "best" cannabis? I get that the answer is $$$, but hopefully that's not the only driving force.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#26 Post by Chris Foley » July 12th, 2019, 2:01 pm

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 12:06 pm
...
You can probably get four crops of cannabis per year
...
I don't think so. Cannabis depends on change in length of daylight to initiate flowering. So really one crop per year. I don't believe the auto flower varieties are all that viable from a commercial perspective.
Indoors you might squeeze 3 crops per year into the same space but that's pushing it. 10 weeks of growth plus 8 weeks of flowering, starting from rooted clones, is a pretty short turnaround.
My knowledge could be behind the times. I haven't tried to keep up with current trends in hybridization.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#27 Post by Doug Schulman » July 12th, 2019, 2:03 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:45 pm
But why even consider allowing cannabis growing in existing wine regions? Why is more open farmland not equally, or more, suitable? Surely the factors that create great growing conditions for high quality wine grapes aren't the same conditions that produce the "best" cannabis? I get that the answer is $$$, but hopefully that's not the only driving force.
Availability of labor and supplies comes to mind. I realize that the wine industry has not had plentiful labor, but that doesn't mean cannabis growers can set up in far more remote areas and magically have plenty of workers. If everyone has a "not in my back yard" stance, we're left with the black market as it is rather than learning how to make it work legally, with huge amounts of tax revenue and employment opportunity that go along with that.

I think a better question is: why not consider it? I still haven't seen any good reason. I would hope our government's default would be to allow things rather than disallow them when there isn't a rational and unavoidable reason to do the latter.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#28 Post by Chris Foley » July 12th, 2019, 2:04 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:40 pm
...
and indoor growing is a terrible drain on electricity
...
LED technology makes indoor growing very efficient.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#29 Post by Doug Schulman » July 12th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Chris Foley wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 2:04 pm
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:40 pm
...
and indoor growing is a terrible drain on electricity
...
LED technology makes indoor growing very efficient.
Compared to the old technology, yes. Compared to the sun, not at all. Even LEDs use a lot of electricity when you're talking about large scale operations.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#30 Post by lleichtman » July 12th, 2019, 2:06 pm

My son is still working on the case of Maysara suing a cannabis grower attempting to block him. This case has been ongoing for 2.5 years with no settlement in sight. My son is defending the cannabis grower.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#31 Post by Stephen Pepe » July 12th, 2019, 2:20 pm

While it is hard to find reliable data, the impression in Santa Barbara County is that most of the cannabis is grown in canyons where grapes are not grown because the sides are too steep or the canyons too narrow or they are not very long. Most grapes grown here are on the flatland or slopping hills of 30 degrees or less. So far there have been no reports of vineyard land being converted to cannabis. Historically, most vineyard land here replaced pasture land for cattle or horses which became unprofitable. Solvang was started by Danish dairy farmers and there 30 dairies in the middle of the last century. None exist now.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#32 Post by Chris Foley » July 12th, 2019, 2:41 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 2:06 pm
Chris Foley wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 2:04 pm
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:40 pm
...
and indoor growing is a terrible drain on electricity
...
LED technology makes indoor growing very efficient.
Compared to the old technology, yes. Compared to the sun, not at all. Even LEDs use a lot of electricity when you're talking about large scale operations.
I bet electricity for lighting is only 10% of total cost of indoor production.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#33 Post by Sean_S » July 12th, 2019, 2:54 pm

Chris Foley wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 2:01 pm
Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 12:06 pm
...
You can probably get four crops of cannabis per year
...
I don't think so. Cannabis depends on change in length of daylight to initiate flowering. So really one crop per year. I don't believe the auto flower varieties are all that viable from a commercial perspective.
Indoors you might squeeze 3 crops per year into the same space but that's pushing it. 10 weeks of growth plus 8 weeks of flowering, starting from rooted clones, is a pretty short turnaround.
My knowledge could be behind the times. I haven't tried to keep up with current trends in hybridization.
This problem was solved long ago with a technique called Light Deprivation or light dep. In the simplest cases growers lierally put tarps over their greenhouses in summer time to create the desired light cycle. In more high tech scenarios this is all automated so 4 crops a year is not stretching it. Indoors 6 or more crops a year is not uncommon.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#34 Post by Alan Rath » July 12th, 2019, 3:22 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 2:03 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:45 pm
But why even consider allowing cannabis growing in existing wine regions? Why is more open farmland not equally, or more, suitable? Surely the factors that create great growing conditions for high quality wine grapes aren't the same conditions that produce the "best" cannabis? I get that the answer is $$$, but hopefully that's not the only driving force.
Availability of labor and supplies comes to mind. I realize that the wine industry has not had plentiful labor, but that doesn't mean cannabis growers can set up in far more remote areas and magically have plenty of workers. If everyone has a "not in my back yard" stance, we're left with the black market as it is rather than learning how to make it work legally, with huge amounts of tax revenue and employment opportunity that go along with that.

I think a better question is: why not consider it? I still haven't seen any good reason. I would hope our government's default would be to allow things rather than disallow them when there isn't a rational and unavoidable reason to do the latter.
From what I can glean, California has about 9 million acres of "quality" farm land, growing crops of various kinds. In comparison, it seems there are maybe 600,000 acres of quality grape growing land (and probably a lot less "prime" wine growing). Surely there is a lot more labor available in farmland regions than in wine growing regions, as well as a a lot more profit to be gained - while sacrificing little in total acreage to farmland needed to deliver the food we need.

We know there are cannabis farms scattered around wine regions, particularly Sonoma and Mendocino counties, no doubt others. We've already seen a number of old vine vineyards pulled up to plant other varieties, or just to build housing. I'm just saying I hope pressure doesn't mount to tear up large swaths of vineyard land to plant cannabis.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#35 Post by Doug Schulman » July 12th, 2019, 3:24 pm

I agree with that last sentence. I don't think it will ever happen.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#36 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » July 12th, 2019, 8:38 pm

I wonder what percentage of WBers smoke weed (or vape, or edibles).

I'd be very surprised if the answer was anything less than 10%.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#37 Post by William Segui » July 12th, 2019, 9:08 pm

Unless there is a marked difference between sun grown weed & indoor grown weed, I fail to see why anyone would pay up for vineyard quality land when there are plenty of warehouse or like equivalent places that are far cheaper.

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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#38 Post by Alan Rath » July 12th, 2019, 9:14 pm

William Segui wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 9:08 pm
Unless there is a marked difference between sun grown weed & indoor grown weed, I fail to see why anyone would pay up for vineyard quality land when there are plenty of warehouse or like equivalent places that are far cheaper.
Will, someone's going to tell you there is, and connoisseurs can tell the difference, but they also think Hostess Ding Dongs are great, so I'm not sure I trust them [snort.gif]
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#39 Post by Wes Barton » July 13th, 2019, 12:50 am

Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 9:14 pm
William Segui wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 9:08 pm
Unless there is a marked difference between sun grown weed & indoor grown weed, I fail to see why anyone would pay up for vineyard quality land when there are plenty of warehouse or like equivalent places that are far cheaper.
Will, someone's going to tell you there is, and connoisseurs can tell the difference, but they also think Hostess Ding Dongs are great, so I'm not sure I trust them [snort.gif]
If you look at what Stephen and Sean said above... Consider that volatile oils are prized here. Consider this is by far the most researched and manipulated crop in human history, by far. Maybe coffee is a good comparison, where full sun and rich farmland are marks of very low quality. Consider all the offerings at dispenseries. Strain and terroir are crucial. (Think cigar tobacco, in that way.) This is the most intested-in crop in human history. High tech grow houses provide ideal growing conditions, with all the inputs a sort of synthetically idealized terroir to achieve a desired result.

The issue here is more proximity. I agree the best use of the best vineyard sites is growing grapes. I doubt this is a threat to recognized great sites. On the other hand, a large-scale operation might target lesser vineyard sites. Someone was just talking about how some vineyards in Oregon are being converted to growing hops. I'd assume those weren't great vineyards, so perhaps hops is the best use.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#40 Post by Markus S » July 13th, 2019, 7:59 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:05 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:59 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 10:31 am

This is an arbitrary argument that could easily be used in reverse. In fact, I think there are probably far more cannabis consumers in California than fine wine consumers, so the reverse might make more sense. Plus, if there is no problem in many cases, why make a problem?
I'd like to see some statistics on that. I'm positive I know more people who drink wine than who smoke, but that's probably just my circle of friends. My underlying point is that you need great terroir to grow great wine, but you can grow cannabis anywhere. I'm not listening to arguments that "terroir" is somehow as important to cannabis as it is to wine grapes.
I don't think the bolded statement is true, at least not for high quality (marketable) cannabis on a commercial scale.
But consider where it is grown now: in basements, in greenhouses (similar to hothouse tomatoes or microgreens), in factory warehouses...cannabis doesn't need land. Terroir is as far from a discussion of weed from any kind of land-based crop.
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Re: Are vineyards and cannabis growers compatible?

#41 Post by Yao C » July 13th, 2019, 8:10 am

Markus S wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 7:59 am
But consider where it is grown now: in basements, in greenhouses (similar to hothouse tomatoes or microgreens), in factory warehouses...cannabis doesn't need land. Terroir is as far from a discussion of weed from any kind of land-based crop.
I think this is the crux of it. I’ve got several friends who are more or less weed connoisseurs. They discuss specific strains at length, but not once have I heard them talk about terroir
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