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Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm
by Brandon R
Yeah, yeah, I know this is a very subjective and difficult question, but a TN I saw in CT got me thinking. I'm wondering what people think is the best food wine. In other words, what wine is only so-so most of the time, but absolutely blossoms when paired with food? I know there will always be outliers (e.g. I had THIS Chianti Classico that was amazing on it's own, but was also amazing with food...) and exceptions, but I'm curious what others think. I have my hunch of what will win (even if I don't agree necessarily): Champagne. I voted for Chianti. To me, it's a supremely versatile food wine and is mostly good but not great on its own (unlike Champagne, which is often epic on its own and also with food), but is awesome with the right food.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 8:24 pm
by Rory K.
I mean you can't really choose a region like this. Good acid and moderate abv are +++, heavier, higher abv, more extracted wines limit you and also you just can't drink as much of those! Champagne and Chianti are the most likely (and versatile) choices for me.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 8:27 pm
by Robert.A.Jr.
I would have said Beaujolais for red and Kabinett for white, and then saw the comment in your post about the wine that is “so-so” on it’s own and then blossoms with food. These wines are excellent either way. I’m not aware of a wine that is only good with food, at least I don’t drink a wine that cannot be very good to excellent on its own.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 8:28 pm
by Yao C
No Riesling kabinett? For shame

Edit: bah, pre-empted [truce.gif]

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 8:30 pm
by Russell Faulkner
Yes. I don’t eat much meat so Kabinett for me. And Champagne. Obviously.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 8:46 pm
by Gerhard P.
Gruener Veltliner - matches with almost everything

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 9:42 pm
by Ben M a n d l e r
I voted for Champagne because of course it is, but White Bordeaux gets a hat-tip from me, too.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm
by GregT
Sorry but the question as posed makes no sense at all. The best food wine is whatever you happen to like with whatever you happen to be eating. And it changes from day to day.

There's no characteristic that makes one wine food-friendly and another food-antagonistic. And it's an extremely limited selection, which means "other" has to be the default. None of those are wines I drink with any frequency. And Champagne is probably the last thing I'd reach for. In thirty plus years, I've never bought a bottle for myself.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 4:27 am
by Markus S
GregT wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm
...Champagne is probably the last thing I'd reach for. In thirty plus years, I've never bought a bottle for myself.
I think you're the outlier here.... champagne.gif neener

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 4:58 am
by Jason T
GregT wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm
Sorry but the question as posed makes no sense at all. The best food wine is whatever you happen to like with whatever you happen to be eating. And it changes from day to day.

There's no characteristic that makes one wine food-friendly and another food-antagonistic. And it's an extremely limited selection, which means "other" has to be the default. None of those are wines I drink with any frequency. And Champagne is probably the last thing I'd reach for. In thirty plus years, I've never bought a bottle for myself.
Greg, I largely agree with this though I might tweak it a bit. Prefaced with 'it depends on the food and person's palate', I do think there are some characteristics that matter. For example, big, gloopy, alcoholic messes of wines don't pair with much, in my experience. They can just overwhelm the food, even a big steak.

Certain characteristics 'can' be food-friendly; well-structured wines to cut the fat in a steak, for example. Or a bit of residual sugar to pair with spicy food (but, of course 'not in all cases').

In that regard I think the part that of the OP that doesn't make sense is it's maybe the wrong question. Because it's less about regions and more about styles/characteristics, and those can cross region.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 5:01 am
by D@vid Bu3ker
Champagne is the most versatile, but the question makes little sense...

The only thing that I generally try to avoid is high alcohol. For me that's anything north of 14.5%. I can look past that for a zin to go with my burger, but in most cases, high alcohol mars food - or at least mars me such that I can't taste the food.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 5:02 am
by Gerhard P.
Ben M a n d l e r wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:42 pm
I voted for Champagne because of course it is, but White Bordeaux gets a hat-tip from me, too.
Maybe Champagne is the choice without too much fantasy ... [snort.gif]

I agree with GregT that the best wine is the one one likes best ... but that doesn't fit with any poll ...

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 5:48 am
by EHeffner
Champagne or rose champagne or rose is what I reach for when I need to pair with food

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 6:25 am
by Jim Stewart
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:27 pm
I would have said Beaujolais for red and Kabinett for white, and then saw the comment in your post about the wine that is “so-so” on it’s own and then blossoms with food. These wines are excellent either way. I’m not aware of a wine that is only good with food, at least I don’t drink a wine that cannot be very good to excellent on its own.
With these three words, you have pretty much nailed what I especially enjoy in a wine: I can enjoy a glass or two (maybe more) by itself, and the wine is just as enjoyable when paired with a pretty wide range of food. As to your specific recommendations, I am "on the learning curve" with both, but can already see your point.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 6:58 am
by RichardFlack
With respect, I’m struggling with the concept here. The results will be biased by what foods people like.

I also don’t see why wines that are good without food should be discounted. Yes there are specific wines that could be meh on their own but come alive with food (we had a Greek rose the other day that filled that brief). It’s a useful thing to know of an individual wine. But I’m not sure I’d apply the concept to a whole category. I struggle with the thought of white burgundy not being good on its own for example.

Many categories missing. Rioja. Rhône. Alsace. Sherry. Dry Riesling. To name but a few.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 7:14 am
by Scott Brunson
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:27 pm
I would have said Beaujolais for red and Kabinett for white, and then saw the comment in your post about the wine that is “so-so” on it’s own and then blossoms with food. These wines are excellent either way. I’m not aware of a wine that is only good with food, at least I don’t drink a wine that cannot be very good to excellent on its own.
Robert A. Alfert Jr. is right (again). [cheers.gif]

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 7:57 am
by Robert.A.Jr.
Scott Brunson wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 7:14 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:27 pm
I would have said Beaujolais for red and Kabinett for white, and then saw the comment in your post about the wine that is “so-so” on it’s own and then blossoms with food. These wines are excellent either way. I’m not aware of a wine that is only good with food, at least I don’t drink a wine that cannot be very good to excellent on its own.
Robert A. Alfert Jr. is right (again). [cheers.gif]
Please jump on the shoe thread and help me out there as well. I am dealing with Birkenstock-wearing style-heathens. It's crushing.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 8:02 am
by Chris Foley
I voted Bordeaux because I drink Bordeaux with food nearly every day.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 8:06 am
by Hank Victor
High acid

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 8:19 am
by Victor Hong
Good wine.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 8:37 am
by michael ottesen
Barbera Can be a
good food companion.but it very much depends of what the dish is.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 8:48 am
by Brandon R
Flawed poll. The OP is an idiot.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 9:03 am
by Scott Brunson
Brandon R wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 8:48 am
Flawed poll. The OP is an idiot.
champagne.gif
Was that one of the poll options?
(Jk)

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 9:15 am
by Doug Schulman
Brandon R wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm
In other words, what wine is only so-so most of the time, but absolutely blossoms when paired with food?
This part makes no sense to me.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 9:26 am
by YLee
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 9:15 am
Brandon R wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm
In other words, what wine is only so-so most of the time, but absolutely blossoms when paired with food?
This part makes no sense to me.
Magical wine.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 10:09 am
by Jim Stewart
Brandon R wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm
what wine is only so-so most of the time, but absolutely blossoms when paired with food? . . . I voted for Chianti. To me, it's a supremely versatile food wine and is mostly good but not great on its own . . . but is awesome with the right food.
Brandon, I agree with you and I have had wines like this. Chianti is a great example.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156058&p=2619940&hi ... t#p2619940

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 10:23 am
by GregT
Markus S wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 4:27 am
GregT wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm
...Champagne is probably the last thing I'd reach for. In thirty plus years, I've never bought a bottle for myself.
I think you're the outlier here.... champagne.gif neener
Yeah I know. There's a lot of love for it! But while it's OK, I never buy it - seems too much like a cross between beer and wine that can't quite decide what it wants to be. And I'm not a fan of beer, which I've been told is un-American!

But seriously, the alcohol level doesn't really matter if the wine is good. I've had some shockingly high-alcohol wine that turned out to be really good and had I looked at the ABV beforehand, I might have had a bias that wasn't merited. A lot of people have alcoholic drinks with dinner and they seem pretty happy.

Nor does acid seem to have all that much to do with it although I know it's received wisdom to believe that a wine with high apparent acidity is a better wine for food than another wine. That's another blanket statement that is very dependent on the particulars. Sometimes those wines just suck and you need a strong flavor in your food to kill the taste! And sometimes you just don't want that acidity. Riesling for example. I love the stuff but if I had to drink it every day, or even every week, I'd be pretty unhappy. Many things are like that, chocolate for example - it's good once in a while.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 10:46 am
by JLee
I don't question the conventional wisdom that Champagne is the most flexible pairing.

However, if the question is what wine benefits the most from being paired with food, I find that food improves white burgundy and other high acid dry whites the most.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 8:05 pm
by Paul Fountain
GregT wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 10:23 am
Markus S wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 4:27 am
GregT wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm
...Champagne is probably the last thing I'd reach for. In thirty plus years, I've never bought a bottle for myself.
I think you're the outlier here.... champagne.gif neener
Yeah I know. There's a lot of love for it! But while it's OK, I never buy it - seems too much like a cross between beer and wine that can't quite decide what it wants to be. And I'm not a fan of beer, which I've been told is un-American!
I'm with Greg here on Champagne or any other sparkling white for that matter. It's not that I won't drink it, but I don't seek it out. I do like beer though.... a lot, although not the generic macro so called lagers which is what brought me to wine in the first place.

Back to the Original question though, there is no single drink or style of drink that works across all the foods I regularly cook and eat so it is pointless being generic.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 3:31 am
by dvansteenderen
Riesling Kabinett and Barbera come to mind...

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 7:51 am
by Claus Jeppesen
Riesling covers it all

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:01 am
by mike pobega
Wine with acidity. Ask Bob Mondavi. :)

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:26 am
by James Sanders
"Generally speaking," Champagne. It is good with just about everything.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:43 am
by Marc Hauser
Wine that’s dead at retail.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:53 am
by Paul McCourt
An almost impossible question to answer, but if I had to choose one wine that would be the only wine I would have available to drink with food it would probably be be a pinot edging out a Kabinett.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 9:37 am
by A. So
Jim: Question, what kind of bear is best?
Dwight: That's a ridiculous question.
Jim: False. Black bear.
Dwight: That's debatable. There are basically two schools of thought.
Jim: Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 10:15 am
by Markus S
A. So wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 9:37 am
Jim: Question, what kind of bear is best?
Dwight: That's a ridiculous question.
Jim: False. Black bear.
Dwight: That's debatable. There are basically two schools of thought.
Jim: Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
93 points! [snort.gif]

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 2:41 pm
by David Glasser
So, the correct answer is 93-point wine?

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:08 pm
by Paul McCourt
Impossible to answer. Totally depends on which reviewer gave the 93 points

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:27 pm
by Ian S
There's no mention of young Vintage Port. It's much too tannic by itself, but pair it with a steak covered in gorgonzola sauce with caramelized onions and it's heaven.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 13th, 2019, 7:44 am
by Alan Eden
GregT wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm
Sorry but the question as posed makes no sense at all. The best food wine is whatever you happen to like with whatever you happen to be eating. And it changes from day to day.

There's no characteristic that makes one wine food-friendly and another food-antagonistic. And it's an extremely limited selection, which means "other" has to be the default. None of those are wines I drink with any frequency. And Champagne is probably the last thing I'd reach for. In thirty plus years, I've never bought a bottle for myself.
This explains why your such a miserable cynical person always looking to be critical and belittle people.

But some bubbly and cheer up

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 13th, 2019, 3:10 pm
by Wes Barton
Cornalin, which should be planted up and down the west coast.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 13th, 2019, 3:49 pm
by Greg K
Jim Stewart wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 10:09 am
Brandon R wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm
what wine is only so-so most of the time, but absolutely blossoms when paired with food? . . . I voted for Chianti. To me, it's a supremely versatile food wine and is mostly good but not great on its own . . . but is awesome with the right food.
Brandon, I agree with you and I have had wines like this. Chianti is a great example.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156058&p=2619940&hi ... t#p2619940
I actually agree with this and understand the op’s question. I’m not generally a big Sangiovese fan, but I think it’s a lot better with food.

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 13th, 2019, 4:32 pm
by GregT
This explains why your such a miserable cynical person always looking to be critical and belittle people.

But some bubbly and cheer up

[wow.gif]

Awesome!

But will it affect my spelling, punctuation, and syntax?

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 13th, 2019, 6:10 pm
by Ian S
Greg, stop teasing Alan, go but some bubbly, and don't worry about being late or the taxes.

Alan, we luv ewe man!

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 14th, 2019, 8:35 am
by Chris Foley
Is that what the youngsters call boofing?

Re: Generally speaking, what type of wine is the best food wine?

Posted: July 14th, 2019, 10:59 am
by GregT
Chris Foley wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 8:35 am
Is that what the youngsters call boofing?
[wow.gif]

Hey Chris - exit only!

I did have some sparkling Sauv Blanc from New Zealand a couple weeks ago. Didn't but it though. [cheers.gif]