Downstream Wines

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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Robert.A.Jr.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#101 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 14th, 2019, 4:33 pm

Steve Crawford wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 3:14 pm
larry schaffer wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 8:01 am
Steve Crawford wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 4:49 am



that score is from william kelly who is as reliable as a $5 whore. jeb gave the 2016 97 points and the '17 96-98.
Steve,

Curious why you make this statement? You obviously have 'issues' with William's scoring - just curious where it's coming from? I find his reviews quite interesting and illuminating, and do not find he 'bounces around' with his scores. He definitely has different opinions about some producers than others, but that's his opinion based on his palate.

Cheers.
I am a self admitted jeb loyalist and I don't hide this.
I've tasted more than 15 wines both men have scored and haven't found a bottle yet where I agree with WK.
like you said, his scores reflect his palate.
Not only that, but a 93 is a pretty damn strong rating as well.

That’s cool you align with Jeb. He’s an awesome guy. Our palates are quite different, but I like him very much. He fears cycling with me, though, as do you. ;)

William is fantastic. Not just his perception of wine, but how he places wine, makers and regions into context. He’s a brilliant writer. I am drinking a 2017 Beaujolais right now that he reviewed very highly, higher than 95, and while I might be a couple points lower, his detail is dead on point. Actually, his reviews on 2017 Bojo are excellent across the board.

I do not get the fascination with Cambie. I personally he think he has ruined every Chateauneuf du Pape estate that he has touched. His style is way OTT. Consultants like him, like Rolland, stylize the region, making the wines totally ubiquitous, glossy, soul-less. What he will do with Zin - another grape that I really like - is nothing I want to get near. Has he ever worked with Zin? Yet another high alcohol wine that will become bigger in scale than it really needs to be, or should be.

But then again, none of us have tasted it.

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Scott G r u n e r
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Re: Downstream Wines

#102 Post by Scott G r u n e r » July 14th, 2019, 5:03 pm

After reading this and the faethm thread I think I am finally cured of FOMO as I felt nothing. I suppose Cambie’s name involved helped somewhat too. Add Rolland for the trifecta.
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Rich Brown
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Re: Downstream Wines

#103 Post by Rich Brown » July 14th, 2019, 5:47 pm

Love this thread! Can you imagine the banter that will ensue after someone actually tastes the wine!

If I do end up getting an allocation and the price is 'reasonable', I am absolutley going to Pobega the sh*t out of a bottle just so I can add a note here!!

Ok....carry on ;)

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Re: Downstream Wines

#104 Post by Michel D. » July 17th, 2019, 10:07 am

Anybody got an offer today?
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Re: Downstream Wines

#105 Post by AD Northup » July 17th, 2019, 10:38 am

Michel D. wrote:
July 17th, 2019, 10:07 am
Anybody got an offer today?
Though the invitation email said they'd come in the fall?
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larry schaffer
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Re: Downstream Wines

#106 Post by larry schaffer » July 17th, 2019, 2:45 pm

Scott G r u n e r wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 5:03 pm
After reading this and the faethm thread I think I am finally cured of FOMO as I felt nothing. I suppose Cambie’s name involved helped somewhat too. Add Rolland for the trifecta.
That's pretty funny, my friend . . .

Cheers.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#107 Post by crickey » August 14th, 2019, 6:13 am

For those guessing $200/bottle, you win!

https://jebdunnuck.com/2019/08/floating ... tin-smith/
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Re: Downstream Wines

#108 Post by Peter Valiquette » August 14th, 2019, 6:44 am

crickey wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 6:13 am
For those guessing $200/bottle, you win!

https://jebdunnuck.com/2019/08/floating ... tin-smith/
And if you're not willing to pay up, you may be guilty of "grape racism" according to Jeb.

I wonder how much the "formidable and delicate" and "ethereal" packaging adds to the cost.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#109 Post by Vic G » August 18th, 2019, 8:16 am

In fairness, the "grape racism" comment/article was written by R.H. Drexel, not Jeb.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#110 Post by Robert M yers » August 18th, 2019, 12:09 pm

That’s a lot of coin for what Smith makes sound like 20 minutes of Cambie’s time before the mic drop. Good for him though for donating his proceeds.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#111 Post by M. Eidelstein » October 3rd, 2019, 2:29 pm

Anyone hear any updates?
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Re: Downstream Wines

#112 Post by Jeff P » October 17th, 2019, 11:16 am

4 pack. 3 750s and 1 magnum. $995 in a wooden box.
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Mark Y
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Re: Downstream Wines

#113 Post by Mark Y » October 17th, 2019, 11:30 am

Jeff P wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 11:16 am
4 pack. 3 750s and 1 magnum. $995 in a wooden box.
well it's a lot cheaper than Salon!
Y.e.

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Billy Norris
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Re: Downstream Wines

#114 Post by Billy Norris » October 17th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Ouch. Steep. Would love to take a flyer on it, but no money left in the wine budget. I’ll be a buyer in the future, but for now will be posting my allocation at cost on commerce corner if anyone missed out who wanted.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#115 Post by matt d » October 17th, 2019, 12:20 pm

I got an allocation as well. Now i need to find anyone in cleveland, ohio, pittsburgh etc who wants to split an allocation
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Re: Downstream Wines

#116 Post by jordan whitehead » October 17th, 2019, 12:31 pm

Jeff P wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 11:16 am
4 pack. 3 750s and 1 magnum. $995 in a wooden box.
tax and shipping brings it to around 1200?
www.annaswish.org

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Re: Downstream Wines

#117 Post by M. Eidelstein » October 17th, 2019, 12:36 pm

Did letters go out or emails?
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Re: Downstream Wines

#118 Post by jeffruggels » October 17th, 2019, 1:03 pm

Looking forward to trying one of these but i will be passing on allocation and looking to buy a single 750 down the road

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Re: Downstream Wines

#119 Post by Jeff P » October 17th, 2019, 1:21 pm

M. Eidelstein wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 12:36 pm
Did letters go out or emails?
Emails
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Leonard Taylor
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Re: Downstream Wines

#120 Post by Leonard Taylor » October 17th, 2019, 3:00 pm

Pricing is bordering on absurd. Very easy pass.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#121 Post by Gil H » October 18th, 2019, 4:44 am

Happy to offer my allocation to anyone here
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Re: Downstream Wines

#122 Post by Harvey Kornicks » October 18th, 2019, 6:28 am

If anyone changes their minds I was not offered , but would like to purchase

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Re: Downstream Wines

#123 Post by Gil H » October 18th, 2019, 8:07 am

Harvey Kornicks wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 6:28 am
If anyone changes their minds I was not offered , but would like to purchase
Harvey PM me. Happy to give you my allocation.
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larry schaffer
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Re: Downstream Wines

#124 Post by larry schaffer » October 18th, 2019, 11:26 am

I'm wondering why some would find this pricing 'absurd' and yet so many wines mentioned here on WB are equally if not more expensive? Is it because this isn't a Napa Cab? Just curious for the rationale here . . .

Cheers.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#125 Post by Steve Crawford » October 18th, 2019, 12:51 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 11:26 am
I'm wondering why some would find this pricing 'absurd' and yet so many wines mentioned here on WB are equally if not more expensive? Is it because this isn't a Napa Cab? Just curious for the rationale here . . .

Cheers.
to play devils advocate, i think the issue is comparative pricing for similar offerings in the area, or from saxum itself.
im rather neutral on this, but i am not buying.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#126 Post by Mark Y » October 18th, 2019, 12:59 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 11:26 am
I'm wondering why some would find this pricing 'absurd' and yet so many wines mentioned here on WB are equally if not more expensive? Is it because this isn't a Napa Cab? Just curious for the rationale here . . .

Cheers.
No dogs in the hunt.. but the wine has no track record and its essentially $200/bottle.
Yes it has a well established wine maker.. but that wine maker's established line of wines (saxum) are $100/btl..

it doesn't really make sense from an outsider looking in perspective..
Y.e.

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Andrew Dodd
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Re: Downstream Wines

#127 Post by Andrew Dodd » October 22nd, 2019, 10:07 am

Surprised to be on the Saxum Subscription list, but not get invited to Downsteam

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Re: Downstream Wines

#128 Post by BLittle » October 22nd, 2019, 11:44 am

Ditto, but saves me from making a decision
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Re: Downstream Wines

#129 Post by adam landa » October 22nd, 2019, 1:03 pm

Ditto for both above posts.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#130 Post by mmoyer » October 22nd, 2019, 9:25 pm

I just wish they told me I wasn’t getting an allocation vs reading others did. Have been buying Saxum since 04.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#131 Post by Philip N. Jones » October 23rd, 2019, 7:19 pm

I refuse to buy wine from someone who says it’s a partnership between “Heather and myself.”

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Re: Downstream Wines

#132 Post by Tom Futey » October 24th, 2019, 9:54 am

Excited for the offer and gladly purchased.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#133 Post by Michael Martin » October 24th, 2019, 1:15 pm

mmoyer wrote:
October 22nd, 2019, 9:25 pm
I just wish they told me I wasn’t getting an allocation vs reading others did. Have been buying Saxum since 04.
If I remember correctly, there was an original email from Justin that then required you to sign up for the Downstream allocation. If you missed the first one, you would not have gotten an allocation.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#134 Post by Steve Crawford » October 24th, 2019, 1:16 pm

this is correct. that email essentially said downstream would be a separate list from saxum and being on one wouldn't affect the other.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#135 Post by Chris Seiber » October 24th, 2019, 1:53 pm

Mark Y wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 12:59 pm
larry schaffer wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 11:26 am
I'm wondering why some would find this pricing 'absurd' and yet so many wines mentioned here on WB are equally if not more expensive? Is it because this isn't a Napa Cab? Just curious for the rationale here . . .

Cheers.
No dogs in the hunt.. but the wine has no track record and its essentially $200/bottle.
Yes it has a well established wine maker.. but that wine maker's established line of wines (saxum) are $100/btl..

it doesn't really make sense from an outsider looking in perspective..
That's how it looks to me, as well.

If you actually tried it, and it was good enough to be worth buying at that price, then that would be that. But nobody has yet, and just judging from external factors like the prices of other top wines from that region and the price of Saxum, it's hard to understand the pricing.

It seems from my armchair that you'd offer this at somewhere around $100, get praise, excitement, reviews, message board discussion, an eager waiting list, and then let the price migrate up from there if and when demand and secondary pricing warrant it. If you come out of the gates at $200 and demand is soft after a year or two, where do you go from there? Lower your prices?

But it's easy for me to say, I don't know what their costs are and research says.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#136 Post by J. Rock » October 24th, 2019, 2:07 pm

I'm looking forward to this thread containing TNs instead of comments on the price.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#137 Post by Tom Lee » October 25th, 2019, 12:29 pm

I got an offer today. Must be in the second wave.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#138 Post by J. Rock » October 25th, 2019, 12:32 pm

Also got an offer. I can't spend that kind of money on this wine though. If I knew it'd be $1,000, I wouldn't have signed up for the list.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#139 Post by Al R » October 25th, 2019, 12:36 pm

Purchased, and hey, at least they are only charging $25 for ground shipping unlike some others (cough Schrader cough).

Something is off in their tax calculations though. My confirmation email says 995 for the box of wine, 25 for shipping, and 63.75 for tax....but a total of 1085.31. The numbers don't add up. I'm guessing they charged tax on the shipping too but forgot to show it on the Tax line. Oh well.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#140 Post by AD Northup » October 25th, 2019, 12:50 pm

Got one too but not biting. PM me if interested.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#141 Post by MBerto » October 25th, 2019, 12:51 pm

As much as I want to support US zin makers, I can't do $1,000 for 5 bottles of something I've never tasted.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#142 Post by Dan.Gord0n » October 25th, 2019, 1:12 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
October 24th, 2019, 1:53 pm

That's how it looks to me, as well.

If you actually tried it, and it was good enough to be worth buying at that price, then that would be that. But nobody has yet, and just judging from external factors like the prices of other top wines from that region and the price of Saxum, it's hard to understand the pricing.

It seems from my armchair that you'd offer this at somewhere around $100, get praise, excitement, reviews, message board discussion, an eager waiting list, and then let the price migrate up from there if and when demand and secondary pricing warrant it. If you come out of the gates at $200 and demand is soft after a year or two, where do you go from there? Lower your prices?

But it's easy for me to say, I don't know what their costs are and research says.
When I signed up, I was pretty excited to try the project....but then I saw the pricing. I figured it would be priced perhaps 10-20% higher than Saxum at least to start and they would take it from there.... would have never guessed they would go 2x the price of Saxum from day 1. Tough story to tell that a team project like this merits a 2x price over what are excellent wines with a track record of excellence over many years...but then again I suspect they aren't pricing this based on "value" ascribed in any relative way to Saxum or other wines but rather perception of what the project "should" sell for given what they are trying to achieve with it. I get the sense nowadays that many producers would rather price based on the quality they are striving for and perhaps only sell 1/2 the wine for 2x the price than price it make sure they sell out. It is tough though since the most interest they will ever have is right now - once they lose people who have been long time Saxum buyers, they are unlikely to get them back...then again they aren't making that much wine and may never decide to make much more and so ultimately they don't need a big list of buyers. If they can sell out and get the $200 that is terrific for them.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#143 Post by markjchambers » October 25th, 2019, 1:58 pm

It seems like many top producers of rhone varietals are going this way - instead of adding to their lineup, they start a whole new project. I thought it might be a way to avoid getting too big and running into direct shipping restrictions.

Christophe Baron is a prime example. Cayuse is great wine, but Horsepower is a little more expensive so it must be a little better, then comes Hors Categorie at more than double the price of basic Cayuse. How much better can it be? SQN has also also introduced other offerings (Next of Kyn and Third Twin), and markets them separately from SQN, but the pricing is not significantly higher. I think Saxum wines are great and I appreciate that the price has been held at $97 (including shipping!) for a long time. Maybe Downstream will relieve some of the pressure and I'll be able to keep buying Saxum for $97.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#144 Post by M. Eidelstein » October 25th, 2019, 2:32 pm

Got an offer email this morning too. Tempted but really don’t want the mag. Pm If interested in the mag if I pull the trigger
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Re: Downstream Wines

#145 Post by Steve Crawford » October 25th, 2019, 2:55 pm

not to go upstream (pun intended) but I also have an offer and not taking any of it. pm if interested in taking the whole set.

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Re: Downstream Wines

#146 Post by Mstanford » October 25th, 2019, 4:40 pm

....i'm not opposed to taking a flyer - I got in on the first Macdonald release, thankfully. But, i don't know here - 3 750s + a Mag for a first release Zin? i wish them every success & know those guys have a terrific pedigree, but it's just too big of a leap. I'd say PM me if you want to split and are in ATL area, but otherwise i'll take a knee and watch this one from the cheap seats.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#147 Post by Adam Frisch » October 26th, 2019, 6:32 am

I'm in two minds about this. My problem with the pricing of many CA, OR wines is certainly in full swing here. My soapbox is right next to me on that. On the other hand if this can bring some shine back to Zin at all, raise its status and get some interest back into that variety, then I'm all for it. Zin such a great and versatile grape, so un-appreciated. It would be great if America could embrace this OG again and be proud of it, and not always devalue it compared to French varieties.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#148 Post by Thomas Concilio » October 26th, 2019, 7:40 am

Interesting how I signed up on July 10 and haven't received an offer yet. Wasn't that the date when Justin opened up the mailing list? Not a complaint, just curious.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#149 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » October 26th, 2019, 8:23 am

Got an offer, sadly passing.
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Re: Downstream Wines

#150 Post by larry schaffer » October 26th, 2019, 4:09 pm

Absolutely fascinating thread . . .
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