4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

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Herwig Janssen
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4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#1 Post by Herwig Janssen » July 9th, 2019, 1:04 am

Next week , I celebrate my birthday . We have a bbq with 20 people and I am opening a case of Clos des Papes 2003 or 2005 . Which one would you prefer ? If I look at Cellar tracker , there seems to be a preference for the 2003 .

Clos des Papes has always been my favorite Chateauneuf . When I was much younger , I drank a lot of CNP but at my age , the alcohol starts bothering me .... but never with Clos des Papes .
Last week , during another bbq , I served 4 wines blind from the 2007 vintage that Parker raved so much about .

fourth place : this wine is softer , with a very slight metalic touch . Sweet red fruit . Relatively light colour . The sweetness is appeling but it is not so pure , not so fresh . ( RAYAS )
Third place : Funky wine , very sweet , with spicy aromas . I think it is borderline overripe , you taste the prunes . But it is massive . Lot's of alcohol. ( PEGAU DA CAPO )
second place : very powerful wine , high concentration but in good balance . Lot's of alcohol but it does not bother . This will go on for ages . I love this . ( BONNEAU CELESTINS )
first place : fresh and spicy red fruit , still young . Wine of the night for most tasters . Very pure , it does not have any pruny flavors like the other 3 . ( CLOS DES PAPES ) .

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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#2 Post by joz€f p1nxten » July 9th, 2019, 4:52 am

Did you drink with the BBQd meat, Herwig? I would think that a Rayas, even from 2007, would benefit more from less strong food. Also, was it fully blind, because the color difference should be obvious? But sounds like an interesting tasting nevertheless.
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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#3 Post by Kris Patten » July 9th, 2019, 5:38 am

I'd open the case of 2005. 2003 is so variable you'll likely have vastly different experiences across 12 bottles, and likely more uniform across the 2005.
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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#4 Post by Kevin Sidders » July 9th, 2019, 7:51 am

I have had great experiences with a couple of bottles of 05 Clos de Papes opened in the past 6 months, which have outperformed pretty much all my other 05 CdPs. I would agree with you regarding your perception of alcohol -- these just always seem so balanced. I don't have any direct experience with their 03 however.
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Brian G r a f s t r o m
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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#5 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » July 9th, 2019, 12:55 pm

That's good to hear about the 05, Kevin. Thanks!
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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#6 Post by John Glas » July 9th, 2019, 3:13 pm

I would agree with 05. I had the 03 in 2013 and I liked it but the longer it sat in the glass the less I enjoyed it. Would probably drink some of those up sooner than later.

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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#7 Post by George Chadwick » July 9th, 2019, 6:13 pm

I opened a three liter of the 03 a couple of weeks ago with a wine savvy group and no one wanted a second pour. The alcohol didn't stick out as in a hot wine, but the alcohol made it exhausting to drink and dulled any pleasure. Consistent over several hours.
Meanwhile a week later a 2003 Vatican CdP was absolutely wonderful.

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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#8 Post by Claus Jeppesen » July 9th, 2019, 11:43 pm

There have been a lot of controversy about 03. Some suggested a fire in the winery caused problems.
Check out the lengthy threads on Squires BB neener
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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#9 Post by Herwig Janssen » July 10th, 2019, 12:26 am

Haha . I think I will open the 05 then ( but have an 03 on the side to compare ... )

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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#10 Post by Herwig Janssen » July 10th, 2019, 1:15 am

Jozef , I like Rayas a lot , have been buying and drinking since the mid eighties . Always one of my favorite wines . But in this tasting , the bottle was not clean . `It happens .

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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#11 Post by joz€f p1nxten » July 10th, 2019, 5:06 am

Herwig Janssen wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 1:15 am
Jozef , I like Rayas a lot , have been buying and drinking since the mid eighties . Always one of my favorite wines . But in this tasting , the bottle was not clean . `It happens .
Just thought that maybe food might have influenced the tasting. Have yet to come across an unclean bottle of Rayas but no doubt that can happen.
Jozef

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Re: 4 CNP's blind and a question regarding Clos des Papes : 03 or 05 ?

#12 Post by Gerhard P. » July 10th, 2019, 9:59 am

Herwig Janssen wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 1:15 am
Jozef , I like Rayas a lot , have been buying and drinking since the mid eighties . Always one of my favorite wines . But in this tasting , the bottle was not clean . `It happens .
There ARE some bottles with secondary fermentation around, had one similar so far, but two great ones ...
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