Mark Squires' BB to close for good - UPDATED (WA sold to Michelin)

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Jörgen Lindström Carlvik
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#101 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik » July 3rd, 2019, 8:57 am

@toddfrench

[/quote]

He's welcome to register and post here!!! I won't boot him out like he did to me [cheers.gif]
[/quote]

Why did he boot you? Curious:)
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#102 Post by Todd F r e n c h » July 3rd, 2019, 9:04 am

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 8:57 am
@toddfrench
He's welcome to register and post here!!! I won't boot him out like he did to me [cheers.gif]
[/quote]

Why did he boot you? Curious:)
[/quote]
I posted an avatar of the sign shown below. He pulled my ability to post my own avatar, I argued with him about it, as it wasn't outlined as a rule in his TOS, he banned me forever. That's the short version :)

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#103 Post by Rudi Finkler » July 3rd, 2019, 9:09 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 6:21 pm
... I met Mark Squires multiple times. I know one should not speak ill of the dead, but I found Mark Squires to be dead the first time I met him and he never came to life. Dour, dull, humorless (which he tried to disguise with his shirts), prissy, priggish, fussy, frustrated, rigid, censorious... I probably should not post this, but I think it may well have been him rather than Parker who killed the board...
Yes, hubris and humorlessness, a deadly cocktail… :-)
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#104 Post by Victor Hong » July 3rd, 2019, 9:57 am

Rudi Finkler wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 9:09 am
Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 6:21 pm
... I met Mark Squires multiple times. I know one should not speak ill of the dead, but I found Mark Squires to be dead the first time I met him and he never came to life. Dour, dull, humorless (which he tried to disguise with his shirts), prissy, priggish, fussy, frustrated, rigid, censorious... I probably should not post this, but I think it may well have been him rather than Parker who killed the board...
Yes, hubris and humorlessness, a deadly cocktail… :-)
But, the short-term buzz can feel impressive.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#105 Post by Brad Kane » July 3rd, 2019, 10:39 am

Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:44 am
Title is a bit deceiving, while Mark may have hosted it, it was Robert Parker's board
You have this backwards, Kris. It was Mark's board. He launched it in January of '99 and then it was hosted on erobertparker when Bob started it, I believe at the end of '01.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#106 Post by WvanGorp » July 3rd, 2019, 10:56 am

It was technically Mark’s board but RMP called all the shots.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#107 Post by Brad Kane » July 3rd, 2019, 11:23 am

WvanGorp wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:56 am
It was technically Mark’s board but RMP called all the shots.
He called many/most, not all the shots, but that's not relevant to what Kris mentioned, which was simply incorrect.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#108 Post by Henry Kiichli » July 3rd, 2019, 12:19 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:44 am
Title is a bit deceiving, while Mark may have hosted it, it was Robert Parker's board, and peaked back when Parker, Rovani, Galloni, Jeb and others were posting there regularly. The quality of info was incredible at a time when the internet wasn't what it is today, back in early 2000s. It was the best place to learn and get scoop on new producers.....like an unknown Scarecrow getting a 98 for their 2003.....or even better what Bordeaux to buy.

Now there is so much info, that board became fallow when they put up members wall and didn't realize the value was members posts.
Didn't the Squires' BB exist before it went to eBob? IIRC it had been around and got included into the eBob site after some time.

Other than that, I agree with everything else in your post. It was the greatest source of wine info in the world, before WB. champagne.gif
"Police say Henry smelled of alcohol and acknowledged drinking a six-pack of Hamm’s beer with the hogs"

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#109 Post by Kris Patten » July 3rd, 2019, 12:38 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:39 am
Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:44 am
Title is a bit deceiving, while Mark may have hosted it, it was Robert Parker's board
You have this backwards, Kris. It was Mark's board. He launched it in January of '99 and then it was hosted on erobertparker when Bob started it, I believe at the end of '01.
I am correct as are you, I may have been overly sarcastic to the point of acting pedantic. While it was Mark's Board, it was zilch without Parker and eBob, and that is why it had the traffic it did is where I was driving.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#110 Post by Brad Kane » July 3rd, 2019, 12:49 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 12:38 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:39 am
Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:44 am
Title is a bit deceiving, while Mark may have hosted it, it was Robert Parker's board
You have this backwards, Kris. It was Mark's board. He launched it in January of '99 and then it was hosted on erobertparker when Bob started it, I believe at the end of '01.
I am correct as are you, I may have been overly sarcastic to the point of acting pedantic. While it was Mark's Board, it was zilch without Parker and eBob, and that is why it had the traffic it did is where I was driving.
It certainly was not "zilch" before it joined the erobertparker site. A lot of people would likely agree that, at that time, it was probably the best wine board on the Internet, along with Robin Garr's Wine Lover's Discussion Group. It certainly had a lot more traffic after the move, but within a few years the site deteriorated.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#111 Post by John Ammons » July 3rd, 2019, 1:24 pm

One of the sillier things I recall about the Squires board was the enormous perceived importance of one's post count. You got a new moniker at a certain threshold, like from an "Executive Oenophile" to a "Senior Executive Oenophile". I want to say there was some ridiculous title of "Grand Poobah" if you had a crazy post count.

Then, after a software upgrade or something, people's post counts were magically reduced. Except Squires. His went unchanged. I think the explanation was Social Hall posts no longer counted for all but Squires. A bizarre slice of that little world!

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#112 Post by Kris Patten » July 3rd, 2019, 2:59 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 12:49 pm
Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 12:38 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:39 am


You have this backwards, Kris. It was Mark's board. He launched it in January of '99 and then it was hosted on erobertparker when Bob started it, I believe at the end of '01.
I am correct as are you, I may have been overly sarcastic to the point of acting pedantic. While it was Mark's Board, it was zilch without Parker and eBob, and that is why it had the traffic it did is where I was driving.
It certainly was not "zilch" before it joined the erobertparker site. A lot of people would likely agree that, at that time, it was probably the best wine board on the Internet, along with Robin Garr's Wine Lover's Discussion Group. It certainly had a lot more traffic after the move, but within a few years the site deteriorated.
I came aboard in the prime eBob times, so wasn't around prior. In its heyday on eBob there was no better place to learn about wine from passionate wine people.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#113 Post by Dan Kravitz » July 3rd, 2019, 4:15 pm

ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am
Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Thanks, guys. Brad touched on what I had previously gathered to be a possible advantage it had over this one; namely, that there was more ITB participation.
there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
Yaacov,

I was quite surprised by your post. I am blatantly ITB and I have never noticed any hostility from anybody here (with the exception of one ex-Parker board member, a person who recently posted, reiterating some old obsessions, one of which is that I am a criminal because Domaine du Pegau labels Cuvee Reservee as 14% alcohol). I try to be polite on the board, which does not come naturally. Also transparent, which does. I know some of my posts have been controversial, but I have met with nothing but courtesy. I am grateful for this board.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#114 Post by Mel Hill » July 3rd, 2019, 7:12 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:44 am
Title is a bit deceiving, while Mark may have hosted it, it was Robert Parker's board...
IIRC, the Squires board existed long before it became
Associated with RP.

Back around
1998 there were a few wine boards
WCWN
Robin Garr (sp?) board
Mark Squires board

All of these were after Compuserve, Alt-wine and AOL

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#115 Post by Todd F r e n c h » July 3rd, 2019, 8:15 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 4:15 pm
ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am
Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Thanks, guys. Brad touched on what I had previously gathered to be a possible advantage it had over this one; namely, that there was more ITB participation.
there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
Yaacov,

I was quite surprised by your post. I am blatantly ITB and I have never noticed any hostility from anybody here (with the exception of one ex-Parker board member, a person who recently posted, reiterating some old obsessions, one of which is that I am a criminal because Domaine du Pegau labels Cuvee Reservee as 14% alcohol). I try to be polite on the board, which does not come naturally. Also transparent, which does. I know some of my posts have been controversial, but I have met with nothing but courtesy. I am grateful for this board.

Dan Kravitz
This community is far and away more welcoming to ITB members, and always has been. That was part of its design, as ERP was quite the opposite.
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#116 Post by Kris Patten » July 3rd, 2019, 8:27 pm

Todd,

Tolerant, yes, welcoming, firm maybe.

If you believe the ITB participation here is at or above what it should be, congratulations. As someone ITB, albeit distributor scum, I find the winemaker/proprietor participation is poor or worse than eBob, and that is a loss of knowledge that is very valuable.
ITB

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#117 Post by Todd F r e n c h » July 3rd, 2019, 9:33 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 8:27 pm
Todd,

Tolerant, yes, welcoming, firm maybe.

If you believe the ITB participation here is at or above what it should be, congratulations. As someone ITB, albeit distributor scum, I find the winemaker/proprietor participation is poor or worse than eBob, and that is a loss of knowledge that is very valuable.
Agree on participation - I can speak to intent, however, as the intent is mine. In the early eBob days, everybody was participating freely, and significantly, then things started to really crack down, and ITB was one of the first to suffer.
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#118 Post by Mary Baker » July 3rd, 2019, 10:30 pm

What, no "filtration" thread?

I hope someone has had the good sense to archive.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#119 Post by billnanson » July 4th, 2019, 12:59 am

Dan Hammer wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 9:53 am
Anton D wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 9:06 am


Here's to the ultimate rise of the lazy, narrow agenda administrators who offer little in the way of content and substance!!! [cheers.gif]
I never had an opinion of him until I PM'd him to give him a heads up about an issue that a high visibility poster had. His response to me was sort of [beatoff.gif] More like a F/U a$$hole I don't care. I was sort of expecting sorry to hear the sad news.

So MS if you're reading, allow me this editorial comment > [soap.gif]
Exactly this...
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#120 Post by Pasquale De Marco » July 4th, 2019, 5:04 am

Brad Kane wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:39 am
It certainly was not "zilch" before it joined the erobertparker site. A lot of people would likely agree that, at that time, it was probably the best wine board on the Internet, along with Robin Garr's Wine Lover's Discussion Group. It certainly had a lot more traffic after the move, but within a few years the site deteriorated.
Agree. Not zilch. It was one of THE places to be for wine.

I liken what happened to the Squire's Board to what happens in the move from regular season baseball to post-season.
During the regular season "regular" fans watch and discuss bad calls, bad manager moves, bad at-bats etc.... but it all passes
quickly in a long season and it's primarily the province of aficionados.
Post-season expands the audience and media coverage. Every play, call, manager move etc... is made under extreme pressure with concern for the opinion of the media and often scrutinized beyond it's real importance.

FWIW, in 1996 I was about to make my 1st (only) Bordeaux visit. Squire's had a pamphlet on his site but I had more questions. He was extremely gracious, helpful and patient during a long email exchange.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#121 Post by Bob Davis » July 4th, 2019, 7:54 am

Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 10:47 am
For those of us who were not part of that board, how did it compare (during its heyday) to this one?
When Parker took in Squires most of the posters came from West Coast Wine . So the traffic at WCW pretty much went close to zero.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#122 Post by Greg Harter » July 4th, 2019, 8:24 am

Mary Baker wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:30 pm


I hope someone has had the good sense to archive.
Unclear if it will be archived. Currently they are saying the archives will not be available on their website.
A potential loss of a lot of information and tasting notes.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#123 Post by Merrill Lindquist » July 4th, 2019, 8:38 am

ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am
Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Thanks, guys. Brad touched on what I had previously gathered to be a possible advantage it had over this one; namely, that there was more ITB participation.
there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
Yaacov- my sentiments exactly. It can be a strange and uncomfortable place to be for people ITB. MOST of the people here are eager to know what goes on in the vineyard, how blending trials are operated, what goes on on the bottling line, what the effects of different weather occurrences are on the fruit on the vine or on bare vines, how pricing is determined, etc. But there is a vocal minority that can make an ITB person turn away from discussions.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#124 Post by AlexS » July 4th, 2019, 8:47 am

Ray Walker joins the chat
s t e w @ r t

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#125 Post by Ian Sutton » July 4th, 2019, 8:54 am

Although this forum's early years had plenty of train wreck threads fuelled by some strong personalities - all in a very similar vein to the Parker/Squires board, it's eased back over time on the number of such threads. I think it's more welcoming now.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#126 Post by Eric LeVine » July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am

My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
-Eric LeVine (ITB)
It rhymes with wine...

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#127 Post by Robert Dentice » July 4th, 2019, 9:40 am

Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
They really could never understand this. They wasted something that was so valuable. Now the Wine Advocate keeps saying the future is Facebook (it is 2019!) and Instagram!!!!

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#128 Post by rob klafter » July 4th, 2019, 9:43 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:40 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
They really could never understand this. They wasted something that was so valuable. Now the Wine Advocate keeps saying the future is Facebook (it is 2019!) and Instagram!!!!
so sad. so true
RIP Parker Board
@grossesgewachs

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#129 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 10:11 am

rob klafter wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:43 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:40 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
They really could never understand this. They wasted something that was so valuable. Now the Wine Advocate keeps saying the future is Facebook (it is 2019!) and Instagram!!!!
so sad. so true
RIP Parker Board
What an Avatar! I remember that pic from the old days.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#130 Post by Gray G » July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am

Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#131 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 4th, 2019, 10:30 am

Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical
You are incorrect; it is not.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#132 Post by Gray G » July 4th, 2019, 10:45 am

I pay for CT, like I said above, please read before you type

cheers
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#133 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 4th, 2019, 10:46 am

Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:45 am
I pay for CT, like I said above, please read before you type

cheers
You called Eric a hypocrite because CT is a pay site. It is not. Congratulations for donating though.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#134 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 10:51 am

For my 2 cents, having stewed on this thread for a couple days: I’ve hung around here a decent amount for about 3 years now, and wine boards generally since around 1997. I think Todd and the moderators do a good job maintaining the atmosphere of civil discourse but allowing different viewpoints that are sometimes at odds. Setting rules that are fair and insisting people stick to them help, and the idiosyncratic and unpredictable censorship Squires seemed devoted to is absent. ITB participation here within Todd’s rules has been fairly strong from what I’ve seen. (I’d like to hear from Steve Edmunds and Eric Texier more but that’s always been true. Love when they dart in here or on Disorder.) But the nature of BBs leads to contention, and like a public forum for political views, one has to be able to take a little heat and snarkiness, ITBers included, without taking it to heart or trying to shut down opposing views. (Todd should just be glad he doesn’t have to deal with my friend Joe Dressner, RIP.) Sides will be drawn. Others will come to defend. As long as it’s civil, it’s just talk about a topic we are all intensely interested in.

Squires and eBob didn’t take any of these Free-Speech-like values to heart and got progressively more wrapped up in their own viewpoint and egos as time went on. The pay wall was the last straw really. That forum was never going to last as a discussion outlet for the diverse opinions and subjectivity in the wine world.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#135 Post by John Morris » July 4th, 2019, 10:58 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 4:15 pm
ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am
Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Thanks, guys. Brad touched on what I had previously gathered to be a possible advantage it had over this one; namely, that there was more ITB participation.
there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
Yaacov,

I was quite surprised by your post. I am blatantly ITB and I have never noticed any hostility from anybody here (with the exception of one ex-Parker board member, a person who recently posted, reiterating some old obsessions, one of which is that I am a criminal because Domaine du Pegau labels Cuvee Reservee as 14% alcohol). I try to be polite on the board, which does not come naturally. Also transparent, which does. I know some of my posts have been controversial, but I have met with nothing but courtesy. I am grateful for this board.

Dan Kravitz
+1

A couple of ITB people persisted in self-serving posts here and were called out on it.

I think I speak for all the lay people here in saying that the participation of winemakers, retailers, importers and critics is hugely valuable. And the vast majority of them/you put your commercial interests aside in posts, or openly confess them.
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#136 Post by Brad Kane » July 4th, 2019, 11:38 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:51 am
(Todd should just be glad he doesn’t have to deal with my friend Joe Dressner, RIP.)
You forget Todd's and a few others, brief foray onto Wine Disorder in the afternath of the Squire's board lockout? The two Joes were not particularly welcoming.
itb.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#137 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 11:46 am

Brad Kane wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:38 am
Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:51 am
(Todd should just be glad he doesn’t have to deal with my friend Joe Dressner, RIP.)
You forget Todd's and a few others, brief foray onto Wine Disorder in the afternath of the Squire's board lockout? The two Joes were not particularly welcoming.
I suspect I was on (in?) Hiatus then if circa 2008-2010, so I can’t forget what I never knew. But in any case I didn’t say the two Joes were welcoming.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#138 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 4th, 2019, 11:48 am

Is it welcoming now? Seems quite clicky, but I get that it fills a niche for some.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#139 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 4th, 2019, 11:51 am

The anti-ITB sentiment originated in Parker's branding of himself as the "no conflicts of interest" consumer crusader. Loads of nobodies on his board decided that the way to raise their status and be somebodies was to act like they were Parker's little deputies, like Parker was going to personally award them a badge and a bottle of SQN for every snarky post along the lines of, "you don't happen to sell that wine, do you?" There was a lot of desperation for the Big Man's approval. And a lot of genuine hero-worshiping folks who just wanted to bask in a few rays of his glory.

+1 on all the other eulogies for what was nevertheless, once, a fantastic source of info and good times. I always found it strange that Parker had the foresight to buy the board back when the Internet was barely getting out of its toddler phase, only to utterly fail to understand what he had and then kill it.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#140 Post by Brad Kane » July 4th, 2019, 11:53 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:48 am
Is it welcoming now? Seems quite clicky, but I get that it fills a niche for some.
It's still clicky and, unfortunately, not as vital as it once was as few of its most valuable participants and friends of mine, have died.
itb.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#141 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:53 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:48 am
Is it welcoming now? Seems quite clicky, but I get that it fills a niche for some.
It's still clicky and, unfortunately, not as vital as it once was as few of its most valuable participants and friends of mine, have died.
But on the positive side it’s not as clicky and idiosyncratic as Todd experienced after Squires booted him but before starting WB - here is the Todd meets Dressner and crew thread I’d never seen before today:

http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/1063/

Out of context, this is bat-shit crazy.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#142 Post by Gray G » July 4th, 2019, 12:28 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:46 am
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:45 am
I pay for CT, like I said above, please read before you type

cheers
You called Eric a hypocrite because CT is a pay site. It is not. Congratulations for donating though.
not looking for congratulations, just following Eric's annual ask on CT, no brainer

I think I typed "maybe" 4WIW

thanks for being offended for him though and jumping my shit, just like society today, if you aren't offended, cheap or otherwise, someone will be for you.... flirtysmile

not helpful overall at best, ambulance chasing is so unattractive

cheers
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#143 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 4th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 12:14 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:53 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:48 am
Is it welcoming now? Seems quite clicky, but I get that it fills a niche for some.
It's still clicky and, unfortunately, not as vital as it once was as few of its most valuable participants and friends of mine, have died.
But on the positive side it’s not as clicky and idiosyncratic as Todd experienced after Squires booted him but before starting WB - here is the Todd meets Dressner and crew thread I’d never seen before today:

http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/1063/

Out of context, this is bat-shit crazy.
There was also the fun episode where a bunch of refugees from the Squires board briefly flooded the UK wine-pages forum only to be driven away by all the threads about cricket.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#144 Post by Marshall Gelb » July 4th, 2019, 1:26 pm

"It's been a long time coming." That Board was wonderful in the past.....so much good information and lots of interaction with posters from all over the world. Unfortunately, the autocratic and argumentative tones became unbearable. After many of us were "requested" to leave for disagreeing with certain "opinions" and then it moved to a closed pay board.....it seemed obvious that the end was near. I thought I would be a bit more nostalgic, but I am not.

Cheers!
Marshall
A quién tiene buen vino no le faltan amigos.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#145 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » July 4th, 2019, 1:32 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 12:14 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:53 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:48 am
Is it welcoming now? Seems quite clicky, but I get that it fills a niche for some.
It's still clicky and, unfortunately, not as vital as it once was as few of its most valuable participants and friends of mine, have died.
But on the positive side it’s not as clicky and idiosyncratic as Todd experienced after Squires booted him but before starting WB - here is the Todd meets Dressner and crew thread I’d never seen before today:

http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/1063/

Out of context, this is bat-shit crazy.
An absolutely delightful thread. Alas, fraudulent advertising since Joe D and Chris are both gone. All that's left are we witless cranks.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#146 Post by Lee Short » July 4th, 2019, 1:47 pm

Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 12:28 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:46 am
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:45 am
I pay for CT, like I said above, please read before you type

cheers
You called Eric a hypocrite because CT is a pay site. It is not. Congratulations for donating though.
not looking for congratulations, just following Eric's annual ask on CT, no brainer

I think I typed "maybe" 4WIW

thanks for being offended for him though and jumping my shit, just like society today, if you aren't offended, cheap or otherwise, someone will be for you.... flirtysmile

not helpful overall at best, ambulance chasing is so unattractive

cheers
You jumped Eric's shit first. So getting your panties in a bunch here, just makes you come across as someone who can dish it out but can't take it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#147 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 4th, 2019, 1:51 pm

Lee Short wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 1:47 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 12:28 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:46 am


You called Eric a hypocrite because CT is a pay site. It is not. Congratulations for donating though.
not looking for congratulations, just following Eric's annual ask on CT, no brainer

I think I typed "maybe" 4WIW

thanks for being offended for him though and jumping my shit, just like society today, if you aren't offended, cheap or otherwise, someone will be for you.... flirtysmile

not helpful overall at best, ambulance chasing is so unattractive

cheers
You jumped Eric's shit first. So getting your panties in a bunch here, just makes you come across as someone who can dish it out but can't take it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
LOL, pretty much, except that I wasn't "dishing" anything out. As Harry Truman once said, "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them, and they think it's Hell."
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#148 Post by Gray G » July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm

hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#149 Post by Eric LeVine » July 4th, 2019, 2:46 pm

Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
I don't actually understand your point. Can you restate it please?

My point is that forcing people to pay (aka walled garden) guaranties a much smaller community. And in the case of CT, WB, eRP, so much of the value comes from the community. If you don't have critical mass, you wither and die. I was criticized by some eRP folks back in 2010 for making that point, but it was so obvious that their bulletin board and community were dead as soon as they went behind the pay wall. It just took 9 years for the zombie to know it was dead.

CT is a for-profit business. People do not make donations. They make voluntary payments: https://support.cellartracker.com/artic ... ry-payment
However, whether or not people pay, they can see and download all of the data of they have entered. They can see the community data.
-Eric LeVine (ITB)
It rhymes with wine...

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#150 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » July 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm

Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm
hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
I shouldn't enter this exchange, as I have no part in it. And, since this post is its own best response, there is nothing to add.

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