2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

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Jim F
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2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#1 Post by Jim F » June 23rd, 2019, 9:29 am

Dinner with friends at BYO, wines just disappointed across the board. Both stored in good passive cellars since release, both PNP. The Leoville came out of a cellar that has let loose some great ones of late, e.g., 1990 Angelus. This Leoville was just tired. We worked it, discussed it and agreed that it is not asleep, but more likely tired out for whatever reason. No great wines, just great bottles, and the reverse also? Even so, the Leoville was better than the sickly sweet, dense, almost port-like Lewelling. I found it pretty much undrinkable, similar result as I have had with this wine, aged, before.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#2 Post by BobH » June 23rd, 2019, 9:48 am

The 2000 Leoville Barton was easily the most disappointing wine of the vintage. It seems to me that the price increase on this wine is much les than others of the vintage meaning that a lot of people seem to think the same.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#3 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » June 23rd, 2019, 9:52 am

That's too bad about the Leoville. I found it stunning the one time I had it (in 2011), and felt it could go the distance.

I will happily take bottles off folks' hands if they don't want them.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#4 Post by Arv R » June 23rd, 2019, 10:28 am

I had a bottle of that 2001 'Wight' at about age ten and found it to be pretty good, but not great. We drank it at high altitude and I wonder if that had something to do with its slightly underwhelming showing.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#5 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 23rd, 2019, 10:28 am

Stunning, and surprising. I have some, but have not had the courage to pop one.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » June 23rd, 2019, 10:32 am

I'm very surprised at the Leo B result too. FWIW, it is not entirely consistent with the CT results for the wine. A 19 year old Leo B from that vintage should (based on rep) either be entering its prime or still waking up. Tired? Very surprising indeed.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#7 Post by Arv R » June 23rd, 2019, 10:36 am

Corks have some variation too. By age 20 one can get quite different experiences with the same bottles from the same case, even if they were all stored properly. I wish we had more consistent adoption of modern closures.

It's sad/strange that its mostly the lower end bottles which have consistent seals. Last nights Coteaux du Vendomois had some synthetic cork, which seemed functional although hard to extract. Of course the wine was disappointing, and was turned into the base for a kir....
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#8 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 23rd, 2019, 10:36 am

Who was the importer?
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#9 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 23rd, 2019, 10:53 am

Arv R wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 10:36 am
Corks have some variation too. By age 20 one can get quite different experiences with the same bottles from the same case, even if they were all stored properly. I wish we had more consistent adoption of modern closures.

It's sad/strange that its mostly the lower end bottles which have consistent seals. Last nights Coteaux du Vendomois had some synthetic cork, which seemed functional although hard to extract. Of course the wine was disappointing, and was turned into the base for a kir....
A stupid question perhaps, but does waxing the top help or hurt? Does it help seal against leaks and too much air infiltration from a poor cork or corkseal? I’ve often wondered. I buy some wines that use wax, like Roilette Griffe du Marquis, Foillard 3.14, Dunn, Plouzeau Franc de Pied, etc.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#10 Post by Kirk.Grant » June 23rd, 2019, 11:37 am

Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 9:29 am
Dinner with friends at BYO, wines just disappointed across the board. Both stored in good passive cellars since release, both PNP. The Leoville came out of a cellar that has let loose some great ones of late, e.g., 1990 Angelus. This Leoville was just tired. We worked it, discussed it and agreed that it is not asleep, but more likely tired out for whatever reason. No great wines, just great bottles, and the reverse also? Even so, the Leoville was better than the sickly sweet, dense, almost port-like Lewelling. I found it pretty much undrinkable, similar result as I have had with this wine, aged, before.

Jim,

What's your annual budget for wine and what is your comfort with upper price limits?
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#11 Post by Kirk.Grant » June 23rd, 2019, 11:37 am

Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 9:29 am
Dinner with friends at BYO, wines just disappointed across the board. Both stored in good passive cellars since release, both PNP. The Leoville came out of a cellar that has let loose some great ones of late, e.g., 1990 Angelus. This Leoville was just tired. We worked it, discussed it and agreed that it is not asleep, but more likely tired out for whatever reason. No great wines, just great bottles, and the reverse also? Even so, the Leoville was better than the sickly sweet, dense, almost port-like Lewelling. I found it pretty much undrinkable, similar result as I have had with this wine, aged, before.

Jim,

What's your annual budget for wine and what is your comfort with upper price limits?
Cellartracker:Kirk Grant

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#12 Post by maureen nelson » June 23rd, 2019, 12:31 pm

Hmm not my experience with 2000 LB, which I found to be a great value at $550/case. But then I actually traded 8 of them to friends for 4 each of the ducru and las cases and then traded one each of the bordeaux for three bottles of 1999 roumier amoureuses. So all in all the LB was a good buy for me. 😁

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#13 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 23rd, 2019, 1:21 pm

Haven’t had it in the last year, but 2000 Barton has been excellent whenever I have had it.

Odd.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#14 Post by G Kramer » June 23rd, 2019, 1:56 pm

Counter datapoint: we had the 2000 LB last night, also, without any advanced prep. The nose was fantastic. The body was full and velvety. On the palate, the flavors were reserved but fine and classically Médoc. This was 7 days after having the 1990, which held its own at a dinner that included Haut Brion, Lafite & Latour of the same vintage. The 2000 drank considerably younger than the 10 year spread between the two. Terrific wine still quite young even though the tannins are mostly resolved.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#15 Post by Jim F » June 23rd, 2019, 2:37 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 10:36 am
Who was the importer?
Wm Grant & Sons. Does that mean anything re: shipping, provenance etc?
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#16 Post by Jim F » June 23rd, 2019, 2:43 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 11:37 am
Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 9:29 am
Dinner with friends at BYO, wines just disappointed across the board. Both stored in good passive cellars since release, both PNP. The Leoville came out of a cellar that has let loose some great ones of late, e.g., 1990 Angelus. This Leoville was just tired. We worked it, discussed it and agreed that it is not asleep, but more likely tired out for whatever reason. No great wines, just great bottles, and the reverse also? Even so, the Leoville was better than the sickly sweet, dense, almost port-like Lewelling. I found it pretty much undrinkable, similar result as I have had with this wine, aged, before.

Jim,

What's your annual budget for wine and what is your comfort with upper price limits?
I don't think I will answer that. Sorry. I will say, Barton is and has been squarely in my wheelhouse for a long time, and I had an absolute unbreakable ceiling of $100 a bottle until about 3 years ago. I think a good bottle of wine should cost $30, but good luck to me anymore.

To all the comments about it weird that the LB did not show well, I agree- weird and unexpected. I would have to guess it was that bottle. I have 1 bottle left myself from the same case(s), and wondering what to do with it. Probably hold for a while and think about a decant before drinking.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#17 Post by Kirk.Grant » June 23rd, 2019, 5:16 pm

Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 2:43 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 11:37 am
Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 9:29 am
Dinner with friends at BYO, wines just disappointed across the board. Both stored in good passive cellars since release, both PNP. The Leoville came out of a cellar that has let loose some great ones of late, e.g., 1990 Angelus. This Leoville was just tired. We worked it, discussed it and agreed that it is not asleep, but more likely tired out for whatever reason. No great wines, just great bottles, and the reverse also? Even so, the Leoville was better than the sickly sweet, dense, almost port-like Lewelling. I found it pretty much undrinkable, similar result as I have had with this wine, aged, before.

Jim,

What's your annual budget for wine and what is your comfort with upper price limits?
I don't think I will answer that. Sorry. I will say, Barton is and has been squarely in my wheelhouse for a long time, and I had an absolute unbreakable ceiling of $100 a bottle until about 3 years ago. I think a good bottle of wine should cost $30, but good luck to me anymore.

To all the comments about it weird that the LB did not show well, I agree- weird and unexpected. I would have to guess it was that bottle. I have 1 bottle left myself from the same case(s), and wondering what to do with it. Probably hold for a while and think about a decant before drinking.
Jim,

My mistake...I thought I was typing in another post...the problems with exhaustion and multiple windows. My apologies...
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#18 Post by Jim F » June 23rd, 2019, 7:02 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 5:16 pm
Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 2:43 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 11:37 am



Jim,

What's your annual budget for wine and what is your comfort with upper price limits?
I don't think I will answer that. Sorry. I will say, Barton is and has been squarely in my wheelhouse for a long time, and I had an absolute unbreakable ceiling of $100 a bottle until about 3 years ago. I think a good bottle of wine should cost $30, but good luck to me anymore.

To all the comments about it weird that the LB did not show well, I agree- weird and unexpected. I would have to guess it was that bottle. I have 1 bottle left myself from the same case(s), and wondering what to do with it. Probably hold for a while and think about a decant before drinking.
Jim,

My mistake...I thought I was typing in another post...the problems with exhaustion and multiple windows. My apologies...
No worries. champagne.gif
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#19 Post by Arv R » June 23rd, 2019, 9:08 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 10:53 am
Arv R wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 10:36 am
Corks have some variation too. By age 20 one can get quite different experiences with the same bottles from the same case, even if they were all stored properly. I wish we had more consistent adoption of modern closures.

It's sad/strange that its mostly the lower end bottles which have consistent seals. Last nights Coteaux du Vendomois had some synthetic cork, which seemed functional although hard to extract. Of course the wine was disappointing, and was turned into the base for a kir....
A stupid question perhaps, but does waxing the top help or hurt? Does it help seal against leaks and too much air infiltration from a poor cork or corkseal? I’ve often wondered. I buy some wines that use wax, like Roilette Griffe du Marquis, Foillard 3.14, Dunn, Plouzeau Franc de Pied, etc.
I don't know. I think the wax seals on top or around the cork are (IMO) just a marketing shtick. Look at Makers Mark or Belle Glos's various pinots.

We probably are all frustrated by this, but there's going to be some natural/normal amount of variation in any naturally sealed bottle after 20 years of aging and divergence.

And that's even before those pesky root days!
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#20 Post by Jeremy Holmes » June 23rd, 2019, 9:30 pm

Sounds oxidised. White wine and in particular white Burgundy cops all the flack. There are a lot of red wines that are oxidised too!
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#21 Post by Gerhard P. » June 24th, 2019, 5:43 am

I´ve had the 2000 LB only a good 15 years ago - but then it was outstanding.
FWIW I had the 2001 LB 2 weeks ago - and it was very fine, very full bodied and youthful, but also very promising, with excellent balance.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#22 Post by Julian Marshall » June 24th, 2019, 9:00 am

Sounds like you were just unlucky, Jim. The two bottles I've had of 00 have both been stunning, if still a bit on the young side. It could be anyone from the shop, to the importer or even the chateau itself - having seen first hand how EP wine is stored just before collection by a négociant's lorry, nothing would surprise me less. The sad truth is that our shared passion is a lottery.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#23 Post by Mattias Jansson » June 24th, 2019, 9:23 am

I've had a couple of bottles of the '00 LB in the last couple of years and they have both been fantastic. The first one was at a 2017 tasting with Damian Barton Sartorius here in the Boston area, and the second one was from an order I made from the same event so it is possible (but I'm not entirely sure) that these were stored at the Chateau until recently.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#24 Post by Jim Friedman » June 24th, 2019, 11:11 am

I have had many bottles of this and they are consistently excellent. It's classic Bordeaux.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#25 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 24th, 2019, 11:48 am

Jim F wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 2:37 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 10:36 am
Who was the importer?
Wm Grant & Sons. Does that mean anything re: shipping, provenance etc?
Good company. Not a factor.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#26 Post by K John Joseph » June 27th, 2019, 7:46 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 1:21 pm
Haven’t had it in the last year, but 2000 Barton has been excellent whenever I have had it.

Odd.
We agree! I've had 2000 LB a half dozen times over the past 4 years or so and it's a lovely bordeaux. If I could go back in time and pick it up for $550 a case, I'd be backing the truck up. A small truck, but still. Like a Chevy S10 with some stuff already in the back.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#27 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 27th, 2019, 8:00 am

K John Joseph wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 7:46 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 23rd, 2019, 1:21 pm
Haven’t had it in the last year, but 2000 Barton has been excellent whenever I have had it.

Odd.
We agree! I've had 2000 LB a half dozen times over the past 4 years or so and it's a lovely bordeaux. If I could go back in time and pick it up for $550 a case, I'd be backing the truck up. A small truck, but still. Like a Chevy S10 with some stuff already in the back.
Dude, a slick stud Texan lawyer like you - not like the Texas Law Hawk - should class up to a British truck!



I have to admit, the opening scene with a thin athletic dude in a suit running up a hill, at first I thought it was you, but he was moving too quickly . . . . Like me in my youth.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#28 Post by K John Joseph » June 27th, 2019, 8:26 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 8:00 am

As you might expect, that guy is a polarizing figure in the Fort Worth criminal bar. The old guard practitioners think he's a disgrace. The young attorneys love him. Cops don't particularly like him because he paints them as largely abusive of people's rights. But he has the respect of the judges and DA offices because he's actually a hard working, intelligent, and very successful courtroom lawyer. As you might imagine, most folks on juries think he's great, and the DA offices are usually over matched and under prepared for DUI cases.

Side note, the Texas State Bar must approve all attorney advertisements before they are published/aired. As you can probably tell, they review for content, not taste.
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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#29 Post by John Glas » June 27th, 2019, 9:32 am

2002 Château Léoville Barton - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Amazing 2002. Funk, plum, oak, gravel and minerals. Medium plus finish. Drinking really well. (92 pts.)
Very impressed with a recent tasting of the 2002.

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Re: 2000 Leoville Barton and 2001 Lewelling Wight

#30 Post by dsimmons » June 27th, 2019, 12:18 pm

I drank one of my 4 LB's in '11 and it was way too young. Hopefully your bottle was an exception.
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