Cheval Blanc 2018 - RElease price is 120 Euro's higher than other 1st Growth

The Chateau waited to be the very last significant winery to release the offer with prices - negociant offer of 528 Euro ex-cellars.
All of the other 1st Growth’s were released at 408 Euro, uniformly, (without collusion - merely a coincidence)

Lafite came out at 470 Euro’s,
and some how Pierre Lurton - Director of the Chateau, believes that their wine is worth 120 Euro’s more than the other 1st Growth’s.

I hope that the public votes with their feet and walks away,

The only industry I am aware of that so many of the manufacturer’s of the product have so little regard for their consumers, or business partners.

Cheval Blanc is a lovely wine that anyone can purchase at all reliable retailers - back vintages for $350 - $500.oo/btl.
Or plunk down close to $700/btl and wait 2.5 years for the new release to end up at your local retailer?

if it was me, I would go to my local store and purchase the 2015 or 2016 which are considered finer vintages and available now.
Wine Advocate rates the 2015 & '16 at 100 pts…

I think if Cheval Blanc get’s away with this price increase other Chateaux will follow along.
These Bordelaise do not need any encouragement to stick it to their consumers.

It is really too bad such a beautiful thing as fine wine attracts this element of greedy bastards who abuse their privilege and position of being a temporary steward of the Chateaux.

When you dig into the question of “what does it cost a winery to produce their product?” - the single largest expense is the land acquisition.
Imagine the position these Chateaux are in having taken care of that cost so long ago and no need to amortize that annual expense.
When farming becomes your largest cost - then you realize the amount of money going into the pockets of the owners.

And of course the French tax system is possibly suffocating - if you report all of the actual income,
just ask winery owner, Gérard Depardieu - who relocated to Russia to avoid the French taxes…

I digress, Cheval Blanc, has decided to demand more of the public.

Isn’t that exactly what they are trying to do? Put ridiculous prices on new release wines to make back vintages (that they are struggling to offload) look cheap and therefore sell?

Yawn…expensive Bordeaux.

OP – why do you hate the free market?

my perspective has always been as giving the consumer a fair deal,
quite naivete - I am aware of that.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I love the free market yet hate the pricing, too. Cheval Blanc is a personal fave, but way out of my league. Kudos to them if they sell through, but still ok to complain.

sorry, forgot to use the button for sarcasm

Didn’t Cheval Blanc raise their prices above the Medoc 1sts quite a few years ago? I thought it was their standard practice now.

Seems to me that Cheval Blanc production is much smaller than the official 1st. Ausone came out slightly higher and Pétrus has yet to release. [stirthepothal.gif]

That is my recollection as well- same as Le Pin, Petrus and Ausone.

FWIW, while I understand the frustration with Bordeaux heading right back into the stratosphere after a few vintages where pricing came down enough to facilitate a decent trade in the wines in a variety of vintage outcomes, the Bordeaux customer- particularly in the US- has not been all that accommodating either. In a world where a great many customers only want the “best of the best” vintages and wines- and in which that decision is largely made by the tasting notes of a handful of people when the wines have not even been released yet- it is easy to understand the chateaux extracting every last penny possible for the best years given the markdowns and sluggish sales of “lesser” years which may be perfectly fine for eventual drinking. 1977 was the last vintage I know of that produced wines that are generally undrinkable, and yet look at how often people want to point to any number of 90s or 00s vintages and say they are lousy, not good, overpriced etc.

But the real losers in this game are members of the trade- and so I personally understand William’s frustration (or at least I think I do- I am making assumptions) because at these price levels and with both the producer and the consumer being so fickle- it is damned near impossible for even many established wine stores to play the Bordeaux game at all in any vintage- much less make the long term every-vintage commitment that is required to really make a go of it.

And for that matter- we are just now coming off that point in time where even the biggest player of all, Diageo, said fuck it and threw in the towel. I wish more people appreciated what a bad thing that was for the market instead of applauding it as though one of the bad guys had left the room.

Total Wine appears to be the new major conduit for high end Bordeaux in the US. May they fare better- but if we have another 09-10 situation, even they may leave the sandbox in time.

very well framed,
who made any money on the 2009 & '10 vintages beside the Chateaux?
The entire trade lost money- “Best vintage of my career” Really? And then '10 came around and it was the “Best Vintage of t he Decade” or was it the “century”?

The 09-10 situation was awful. Here in Dallas there is a store that is sitting on 10 cases of 2010 Margaux at $1,100 a bottle. They happen to be a huge store with good long-term warehouse storage, so on paper they can “afford” the cash flow implications of sitting on those wines these past several years and likely many more to come, but that still comes at quite a cost. And it does to this day because that store is no longer widely stocking newer vintages of very high end Bordeaux. Lose lose for everyone.

In the bigger picture, the difficulty with the Big Eight Bordeaux and a handful of others like Le Pin is that they have become investment and prestige vehicles- they have a value significantly over and above their value for their intended purpose. This is obvious purely by observing the way in such wines are traded now. That kind of thing never lasts, but the sheer wealth of most Big Eight owners plus the increasing presence of business investors provides the cash flow cushion to prop up that kind of market in a way that was not possible in the past.

When it all falls apart, I do not see things crashing to the ground- but suffice to say I think futures pricing on 14-16 was a good indicator of the top end of a healthy futures market in the world as it stands now. In a world where these wines go back to being primarily consumables, then I think 20-30% less makes more sense.

I don’t know about you, but I did quite well on buying 2009 future’s and a odd 2010. I got everything at a good price. There drinking great now. In 2009 I stayed away from the 1st growths and just bought some better priced 2nd’s, 3rd’s, 4th’s and Pomerol. My lone 2010 was a case of La Violette. Which has skyrocketed up in price. The 2018 vintage has some wines that will be legendary in the future and I’ve been targeting those (i.e. LLC, La Conseillante, Ausone, etc) champagne.gif

The real wackiness around the 09-10 vintage was centered around the firsts and a handful of others. I do not see large stocks of most other top Bordeaux languishing in the marketplace- so the very top end is what I was addressing.

On 2018, time will tell. Unlike you, I have not had the privilege of going over to Bordeaux to taste the wines- so I do not have the benefit of first hand experience to guide me just yet. My only reservation is that this seems to be a vintage of some extremes, and that adds a certain element of risk that has me wanting to really get up to date with what the big boys are doing before I take the plunge since I have not bought first growths in quantity in quite a long time.

From Time to Time - since the release of 2009 & 2010 I will read that comment - in the wine trades, "I DO NOT SEE LARGE STOCKS SITTING AROUND I even have seen that comment by the Grand Wizard himself, that surprises me. The fact is importers and distributors - including myself, and businesses I’ve visited in Hong Kong, Macau, Mainland China, Zhuhai (lovely city that connects to Macau by bridge) Singapore, Shanghai, Tokyo, New York and even myself in Honolulu are sitting on stocks from 2009 that the pricing because of the greedy price grab by the Chateaux and the the Euro which fluctuated from 1.30 - as much as much of that time from 1.40 - 1.50… when payments were due much of those payments the Euro was 1.40, now we are under water.

I’ve heard stories from industry insiders who travel to visit clients, Managing Directors of Latour, and G.M. of Rauzan Segla ,Paul Pontalliers’ son, who at that time moved to Hong Kong to improve the Chateaux standing as Lafite was rising so high above the other 1st Growths, Margaux released the wine at $1,200 - $1,600/bt. You can purchase at retail now, a bottle that has aged nicely for $950.oo

and on and on, the warehouses of importers and distributors are loaded with 2009 & 2010 , and like myself I am slowly selling some at cost, but the nature of the industry is you hold on, and hope over time, the 10 or 20 or even 50 cases of wines such as, Smith Haut Lafitte, Rauzan Segla, Cos Estournel, Leovillve Las Cases - 20 + cases, Pichon Baron 17/cs, Pape Clement Rouge and Blanc even Mouton Rothschild cost us $963/btl… we have many cases, Montrose - gorgeous wine, Latour , Grand Puy Lacoste is so beautiful , Giscours, Ducru, Cantenac Brown, Canon, and what is interesting is that we are fortunate that over time we have some clients who can afford to purchase the very finest 1st Growth and some 2nds, the Super 2nds, to their clientele, people who demand the very best, and every month or 2 they request from the top vintages, because their international clientele is quite discerning and is spending a ridiculous amount of money, (at least I know the latter is correct) they ask for - 1982, 1986, 1990, 1995, 1996, 2000 and 2005, they never EVER ask for the best vintage of ‘HIS’ Career or the vintage after that…

So the public does not see the wines as Mr. Parker himself has claimed in various writings, they all think it is gone from the market place - same as you have witnessed… who wants to announce that?
It is true it is not sitting out at retail, but every serious Bordeaux importer is sitting on very large stocks in some warehouse gathering dust.
Bitter, betrayed, pissed off, I’m glad I made this posting for it has given me the idea to persuade my clients to purchase and sell some of the 2009 & 2010’s.

It is not easy, the Chateaux release say half of their production at the En Primeur (just my guesstimate) now as they release more stocks of the 2009 & 2010 and they increase their release price in Euro’s, the cost to purchase a Euro is not 1.40 or 1.50, rather it is say 1.13 on a over cast day.
So all of us are between a rock and a hard place.
If we were all selling an item that we had no emotional attachment to this would be far easier…

It is unlike any other business I’ve been a part of, with all of the forces working against us importers, on the other hand, we have wines, such as Burgundy Arnoux of Vosne Romanee, or Yves Pierre Colin that our cost at the winery is 1/3 of what I see Grey market co’s are offering at. And here I am playing violin’s that we cannot break even after years with the 2009 & 2010…

Is the implication that the first growth pricing is reasonable?

Or that the traditional first growths are the most expensive Bordeaux. They are not, and haven’t been for a long time. Ausone came out at the same time for an even higher price than Cheval Blanc.

And to the OP, please convince your clients to sell their stocks of 2009 and 2010 into the market; I would like to see the prices come down.

We cannot sell the 2009 & 2010 into the market because we purchased at Euro 1.40 - 1.50 our costs are higher than the bits that are on the market today when the cost is based on Euro 1.10 - 1.15. The release price has not changed, it is the cost in Euro’s that has moved. So every one is holding on to the stocks, you do not even see offers to move those.

BTW, I awoke to a reply to me email sent to several negociants of what I think of Cheval Blancs pricing - this particular negociant will offer to me at a steep discount if I maintain my discretion. I’ve no interest in getting involved with Cheval Blanc 2018 - beautiful wine, I imagine.
This email tells me the market is not supporting Cheval Blanc, not one of the other top tier wines (when I say 1st Growth I am automatically including in my mind the other wines mentioned above by others, Petrus, Ausone, etc… as well) is still available on the negociant offers.

I have also been offered Cheval at a discount. The negotiant wants to keep his allocation, and not have to sit on the wine. At some stage, wines like Cheval will put too much pressure on the negotiants, who will not buy. I can’t see any of them making money now while the chateaux have been raising their prices, absorbing what little profit margin there was. For the wines like Cheval, it is a system that will some day break, and I suspect they will have to distribute the wines themselves.