Percent holding on cellartracker

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Ethan Abraham
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1185
Joined: November 16th, 2010, 10:34 am

Percent holding on cellartracker

#1 Post by Ethan Abraham » June 7th, 2019, 4:15 am

The Bryant thread got me thinking...has anyone ever tried to figure out what percent of wine makes it to cellar tracker? For example screagle has reported annual production of 5-9k bottles (not sure if that includes the second), and I see consistently about 1500 bottles on CT per vintage, indicating about 20% on CT. I would hypothesize that numbers would be consistent by "class" of wine - ie screagle/Harlan/colgin/etc would be around the same percent, but would vary greatly across types. Maybe semi-geeky-CA mailing list wines (Rhys/bedrock/etc) would have higher percent, I'd think European producers would be lower, etc.

User avatar
Bryan Carr
Posts: 457
Joined: December 28th, 2015, 10:56 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#2 Post by Bryan Carr » June 7th, 2019, 10:26 am

Yeah, I'd imagine your suppositions to be correct, super-spendy cult CA wine only really has two consumer bases: the conspicuously wealthy and the conspicuously nerdy and one of those categories I'd think is much more likely to use CT than the average bear. I'd also imagine board darling types also have a higher-than-average input rate as well. I bet stuff like Rhys or Rivers Marie or Cayuse is probably at the upper end of the range of amount logged like you say.
Last edited by Bryan Carr on June 7th, 2019, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CT: the_lovenest

User avatar
Brian Tuite
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18645
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#3 Post by Brian Tuite » June 7th, 2019, 10:43 am

Depends on the wine as geeky people enter more often. I’ve had guys in Napa tell me 20%-25% is a pretty close number based on their release numbers and what ends up in CT.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

User avatar
Anton D
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 27793
Joined: October 17th, 2013, 11:25 am
Location: Chico, CA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#4 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 11:38 am

That's a huge percentage!

I am amazed.

I would have guessed less than 1%.
Anton Dotson

User avatar
Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 752
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#5 Post by Sh@n A » June 7th, 2019, 11:46 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:43 am
Depends on the wine as geeky people enter more often. I’ve had guys in Napa tell me 20%-25% is a pretty close number based on their release numbers and what ends up in CT.
I assume this is only for their $50+ bottles? still higher than I would have expected.
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
Brian Tuite
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18645
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#6 Post by Brian Tuite » June 7th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 11:46 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:43 am
Depends on the wine as geeky people enter more often. I’ve had guys in Napa tell me 20%-25% is a pretty close number based on their release numbers and what ends up in CT.
I assume this is only for their $50+ bottles? still higher than I would have expected.
Most assuredly.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

User avatar
Freek S u i j v e r
Posts: 669
Joined: June 4th, 2009, 11:16 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#7 Post by Freek S u i j v e r » June 10th, 2019, 11:54 am

I think it is only relevant for "cult + high-end + USA", else the percentages will probably always be below 1%. E.g.: Dom Perignon is relatively high-end, produces 4-5M bottles per year, and you can find on average far less than half a percent on Cellar Tracker. The same percentages seem to hold for Latour, Vega Sicilia, DRC RC, ....

User avatar
brigcampbell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12109
Joined: April 7th, 2010, 12:17 pm
Location: Mission Viejo, CA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#8 Post by brigcampbell » June 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm

CT users are dominated by Americans.

Think of all the wine consumed just in France, an incredibly small number are in CT.

I played around with this years ago in discussions on the CT forum with Eric and others regarding expanding CT. My position was automatic translation was critical to driving non English user growth.

If there was full support for Spanish, Italian and French you'd see a lot more bottles in CT but it'll still be a rounding error compared to world production.

Heck, what percentage of KJ Vintner Reserve Chardonnay is tracked? Not much.

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16095
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#9 Post by John Morris » June 13th, 2019, 8:14 pm

brigcampbell wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 8:22 pm
CT users are dominated by Americans.

Think of all the wine consumed just in France, an incredibly small number are in CT.

I played around with this years ago in discussions on the CT forum with Eric and others regarding expanding CT. My position was automatic translation was critical to driving non English user growth.

If there was full support for Spanish, Italian and French you'd see a lot more bottles in CT but it'll still be a rounding error compared to world production.
That all sounds right. Also, I think most Europeans are less obsessive about their wine collections. Few store offsite, and maintaining an inventory is less essential if you can just go down in the cellar of the family house and grab a bottle.
Last edited by John Morris on June 13th, 2019, 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

"It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same." – me, 2018

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16095
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#10 Post by John Morris » June 13th, 2019, 8:16 pm

Bryan Carr wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:26 am
Yeah, I'd imagine your suppositions to be correct, super-spendy cult CA wine only really has two consumer bases: the conspicuously wealthy and the conspicuously nerdy and one of those categories I'd think is much more likely to use CT than the average bear. I'd also imagine board darling types also have a higher-than-average input rate as well. I bet stuff like Rhys or Rivers Marie or Cayuse is probably at the upper end of the range of amount logged like you say.
I think the market for those wines is skewed toward the West Coast, too. Perhaps it's just the circles I move in, but I never hear much discussion of limited production, mailing list West Coast wines here on the East Coast. On top of that, there are more technology adopters on the West Coast, I think. Together, I'd guess that would mean that higher proportions of cult products end up registered on CT.
"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

"It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same." – me, 2018

User avatar
Eric LeVine
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12368
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 8:58 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#11 Post by Eric LeVine » June 14th, 2019, 12:30 am

I used to track this early on for things like Quilceda, SQN and Pavie and figured out 10%. It doesn't surprise me that it might have risen, but as already noted you have to look at the correlation to more geeky, online driven wines and lists. About half the CT user base is in the US.
-Eric LeVine (ITB)
It rhymes with wine...

Ben M a n d l e r
Posts: 48
Joined: January 20th, 2019, 9:42 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#12 Post by Ben M a n d l e r » June 14th, 2019, 11:43 pm

When I was living in England and drinking a lot more European wines that aren't exported to the U.S., I had to add a lot of new wines to CT. So simply from my own experience, coverage of not-internationally-known European wines is very sparse. Since I moved to the U.S., I haven't had to add a single U.S. wine to CT, even some of the more obscure Virginian ones I've had.

User avatar
Ethan Abraham
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1185
Joined: November 16th, 2010, 10:34 am

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#13 Post by Ethan Abraham » June 15th, 2019, 4:51 am

There are lots of other interesting things to see though, for example how much various bdx is sitting in negociant warehouses or in chateau cellars. For example 2010 vs 2015 PLL has about 1500 bottles each on CT. For Cos, otoh, there are about 1000 bottles of 15 but 5000 of 10.

User avatar
Markus S
Posts: 5657
Joined: May 20th, 2010, 7:27 am

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#14 Post by Markus S » June 15th, 2019, 8:00 am

John Morris wrote:
June 13th, 2019, 8:16 pm
I think the market for those wines is skewed toward the West Coast, too. Perhaps it's just the circles I move in, but I never hear much discussion of limited production, mailing list West Coast wines here on the East Coast. On top of that, there are more technology adopters on the West Coast, I think. Together, I'd guess that would mean that higher proportions of cult products end up registered on CT.
Yeah we're more laid back in the East. We don't care about status like they do in the Sunbelt, with those big manses and fancy cult wines!
$ _ € ® e . k @

User avatar
Eric LeVine
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12368
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 8:58 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#15 Post by Eric LeVine » June 15th, 2019, 9:06 am

Ethan Abraham wrote:
June 15th, 2019, 4:51 am
There are lots of other interesting things to see though, for example how much various bdx is sitting in negociant warehouses or in chateau cellars. For example 2010 vs 2015 PLL has about 1500 bottles each on CT. For Cos, otoh, there are about 1000 bottles of 15 but 5000 of 10.
Really? That is not what I see for PLL, but there is in fact a big drop in 2015 Cos.

Pichon Lalande:
2010: 4042 bottles - https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=1128959
2015: 3765 bottles - https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=2353019

Cos d'Estournel:
2010: 6308 bottles - https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=1123179
2015: 985 bottles - https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=2353375
-Eric LeVine (ITB)
It rhymes with wine...

User avatar
Ethan Abraham
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1185
Joined: November 16th, 2010, 10:34 am

Re: Percent holding on cellartracker

#16 Post by Ethan Abraham » June 15th, 2019, 10:01 am

Sorry meant about 3500 not 1500. But ballpark 10 and 15 are similar

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”