$175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

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Alan Eden
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#51 Post by Alan Eden » June 7th, 2019, 7:10 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:46 am
Alan Eden wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 9:31 am
Hao Lu wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 9:20 am
Since Fed started QE in late 2008, the income distribution deteriorated horribly. The rich gets richer. It may be true that most people did not earn 40% more in past 3-5 years, but folks who drink $150 very likely did. High end napa cabs only target this small population.
You mean like people on this forum ?
Speak for yourself. There are plenty of us on this forum who earn meager incomes in comparison to the ones you refer. Those are the ones I started he “things you say when you can’t afford the next wine release” for and there are plenty of us.
Brian

Dont know you and i have no interest in starting a fight about this but you need to quit on this woe is me im poor BS. Im with in you in that we are not in the rich catagory but you drink plenty of expensive wines in the Bedrock, Myriad, Quivet etc ranges. You might not purchase lots of high end cabs but are you telling me you have never spent $100 + on a cab ?

Poor is living on $8 an hour, not drinking Bedrock Heirloom with your Flannery steak and feeling it should be Harlan estate
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Keith A k e r s
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#52 Post by Keith A k e r s » June 7th, 2019, 7:19 am

Peter Valiquette wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:22 am
Keith A k e r s wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:15 pm


newsflash, there are tons of steakhouses in the US. Guess what their greatest wine sales are by a massive margin?
I have no doubt, but this thread is about $175 cabs, not the Justin’s, Jordan’s, Caymus, and Silver Oaks which litter steak house wine lists.

And high end Cabs from small producers are a requirement for any steakhouse that remotely cares about their wine list. Just take a look at some of the lists where I’m at in Chicago like RPM Steak, Maple&Ash, or Benny’s Chop House just to name a few.

I’m saying all of this as someone who probably opens only 3-5 Napa Cabs a year. So, it’s not like it would greatly effect me if this category did shrink. But, I also know well enough that there are many people with a lot of money that do buy such things frequently enough that this category will be strong for a long time to come.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#53 Post by Roy Piper » June 7th, 2019, 7:42 am

If someone asks me what Napa Cabs to get in the $40-75 range, I tell them to go get Carlisle and Bedrock Zins, instead. Most likely what they are looking, flavor and texture-wise, for Cab within that price range can be achieved in epic Zins by those producers.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#54 Post by Brian Tuite » June 7th, 2019, 8:49 am

Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:10 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:46 am
Alan Eden wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 9:31 am


You mean like people on this forum ?
Speak for yourself. There are plenty of us on this forum who earn meager incomes in comparison to the ones you refer. Those are the ones I started he “things you say when you can’t afford the next wine release” for and there are plenty of us.
Brian

Dont know you and i have no interest in starting a fight about this but you need to quit on this woe is me im poor BS. Im with in you in that we are not in the rich catagory but you drink plenty of expensive wines in the Bedrock, Myriad, Quivet etc ranges. You might not purchase lots of high end cabs but are you telling me you have never spent $100 + on a cab ?

Poor is living on $8 an hour, not drinking Bedrock Heirloom with your Flannery steak and feeling it should be Harlan estate
The assumption that people pop $175 corks like chicklets doesn’t play. Maybe with people who post about it but I’ll bet you the majority of members here don’t play in that arena.

You are right, you don’t know me so speak for yourself.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#55 Post by Pat Esposito » June 7th, 2019, 8:57 am

Kevin McEvoy wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 5:10 am
Stopped buying new Napa vintages long ago and now just pick up the classics via auction. Mondavi Reserve, Dunn, Montelena, Anderson Conn V Reserve, Spottswoode are all easily available at way less than the current vintage prices, and they are already aged so I don't have to store them for 10 years+ (although I know most new producers make the wines in a style that can be drunk younger than that).
Very much in this camp. Only buy MACDONALD and Scarecrow current vintages, cherry pick older Napa cabs at auction. There is the risk of not storing them myself, but so far (knock on wood) have been very lucky with the bottles I've purchased from Winebid and the like.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#56 Post by ykwon » June 7th, 2019, 8:58 am

Roy Piper wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:42 am
If someone asks me what Napa Cabs to get in the $40-75 range, I tell them to go get Carlisle and Bedrock Zins, instead. Most likely what they are looking, flavor and texture-wise, for Cab within that price range can be achieved in epic Zins by those producers.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#57 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2019, 10:25 am

Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:10 am
................
Brian

Dont know you and i have no interest in starting a fight about this but you need to quit on this woe is me im poor BS. Im with in you in that we are not in the rich catagory but you drink plenty of expensive wines in the Bedrock, Myriad, Quivet etc ranges. You might not purchase lots of high end cabs but are you telling me you have never spent $100 + on a cab ?

Poor is living on $8 an hour, not drinking Bedrock Heirloom with your Flannery steak and feeling it should be Harlan estate
So true.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#58 Post by Hao Lu » June 7th, 2019, 12:13 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:42 am
If someone asks me what Napa Cabs to get in the $40-75 range, I tell them to go get Carlisle and Bedrock Zins, instead. Most likely what they are looking, flavor and texture-wise, for Cab within that price range can be achieved in epic Zins by those producers.
great choice!

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#59 Post by Hao Lu » June 7th, 2019, 12:14 pm

I stopped buying $150 napa cabs from list two years ago. I found the older bottles a better deal.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#60 Post by Alan Rath » June 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:42 am
If someone asks me what Napa Cabs to get in the $40-75 range, I tell them to go get Carlisle and Bedrock Zins, instead. Most likely what they are looking, flavor and texture-wise, for Cab within that price range can be achieved in epic Zins by those producers.
Hmm, that doesn't sound like great advice. Zin is not Cab, not by any stretch, those are completely different "itches" to scratch. Better advice would be Dehlinger Cab, Ridge Estate Cab, Pott Napa Cab, just to name three producers I know to be good in that price range.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#61 Post by Greg K » June 7th, 2019, 12:24 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:25 am
Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:10 am
................
Brian

Dont know you and i have no interest in starting a fight about this but you need to quit on this woe is me im poor BS. Im with in you in that we are not in the rich catagory but you drink plenty of expensive wines in the Bedrock, Myriad, Quivet etc ranges. You might not purchase lots of high end cabs but are you telling me you have never spent $100 + on a cab ?

Poor is living on $8 an hour, not drinking Bedrock Heirloom with your Flannery steak and feeling it should be Harlan estate
So true.
Then again, this entire thread is really a "woe is me I'm poor" thread by Alan to begin with.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#62 Post by David Baum » June 7th, 2019, 12:52 pm

Woe is dead at retail

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#63 Post by Merrill Lindquist » June 7th, 2019, 1:06 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:42 am
If someone asks me what Napa Cabs to get in the $40-75 range, I tell them to go get Carlisle and Bedrock Zins, instead. Most likely what they are looking, flavor and texture-wise, for Cab within that price range can be achieved in epic Zins by those producers.
Hmm, that doesn't sound like great advice. Zin is not Cab, not by any stretch, those are completely different "itches" to scratch. Better advice would be Dehlinger Cab, Ridge Estate Cab, Pott Napa Cab, just to name three producers I know to be good in that price range.
I'm with you, Alan. I thought Piper's suggestion was odd. But I will freely admit that I don't recall the last time I had a Zin. Just not my thing.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#64 Post by Peter Valiquette » June 7th, 2019, 1:09 pm

Keith A k e r s wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:19 am
Peter Valiquette wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:22 am
Keith A k e r s wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:15 pm


newsflash, there are tons of steakhouses in the US. Guess what their greatest wine sales are by a massive margin?
I have no doubt, but this thread is about $175 cabs, not the Justin’s, Jordan’s, Caymus, and Silver Oaks which litter steak house wine lists.

And high end Cabs from small producers are a requirement for any steakhouse that remotely cares about their wine list. Just take a look at some of the lists where I’m at in Chicago like RPM Steak, Maple&Ash, or Benny’s Chop House just to name a few.
I scanned Benny's wine list and while it's impressive, I don't think it means they care more about it than a smaller restaurant with limited storage or financial resources who has to make difficult choices about which 30-50 different wines they may want to keep on hand.

Frankly, it's probably easier to take the "one of each" approach to a wine list than to make considerate choices about what best matches the cuisine. Who really needs 21 different bottlings of Silver Oak on their wine list anyway. Besides, if they don't carry Roy Piper it's not worth going.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#65 Post by Keith A k e r s » June 7th, 2019, 1:19 pm

Peter Valiquette wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:09 pm
I scanned Benny's wine list and while it's impressive, I don't think it means they care more about it than a smaller restaurant with limited storage or financial resources who has to make difficult choices about which 30-50 different wines they may want to keep on hand.

Frankly, it's probably easier to take the "one of each" approach to a wine list than to make considerate choices about what best matches the cuisine. Who really needs 21 different bottlings of Silver Oak on their wine list anyway. Besides, if they don't carry Roy Piper it's not worth going.

the thing in this post doesn't really apply to the crux of the thread though. My friend has a really wonderful list at his restaurant with a focus on having all of the wines be available for under $100. So, of course this thread won't apply to that. But, someone going there isn't the target audience that this thread is talking about. So, within that, there is danger of applying what a somm at a small restaurant will put on their list as a maxim for the wider wine audience.

Take the flip side, your normal high-end cab buyer probably isn't likely to go to my friend's place, but that buyer will absolutely go to a steak house and throw down. And those steakhouses do a f*ck of business that small restaurants with curated wine lists can only wish that they can do.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#66 Post by Brian Tuite » June 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Greg K wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:24 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:25 am
Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:10 am
................
Brian

Dont know you and i have no interest in starting a fight about this but you need to quit on this woe is me im poor BS. Im with in you in that we are not in the rich catagory but you drink plenty of expensive wines in the Bedrock, Myriad, Quivet etc ranges. You might not purchase lots of high end cabs but are you telling me you have never spent $100 + on a cab ?

Poor is living on $8 an hour, not drinking Bedrock Heirloom with your Flannery steak and feeling it should be Harlan estate
So true.
Then again, this entire thread is really a "woe is me I'm poor" thread by Alan to begin with.
But he doesn’t want to start an argument.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#67 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 1:33 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm
Greg K wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:24 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:25 am


So true.
Then again, this entire thread is really a "woe is me I'm poor" thread by Alan to begin with.
But he doesn’t want to start an argument.
Be nice to Alan, he can't even afford decent color house paint.

Speaking of which:

What is red and smells like blue paint?
Click to see spoiler:
Red paint. [rofl.gif]
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#68 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 1:35 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 7:42 am
If someone asks me what Napa Cabs to get in the $40-75 range, I tell them to go get Carlisle and Bedrock Zins, instead. Most likely what they are looking, flavor and texture-wise, for Cab within that price range can be achieved in epic Zins by those producers.
Hmm, that doesn't sound like great advice. Zin is not Cab, not by any stretch, those are completely different "itches" to scratch. Better advice would be Dehlinger Cab, Ridge Estate Cab, Pott Napa Cab, just to name three producers I know to be good in that price range.
Great zin is more claret-like than most current 'Merican anything!
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#69 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2019, 1:44 pm

Agreed. I could never swap zinfandel versus cabernet sauvignon.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#70 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 7th, 2019, 1:51 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:44 pm
Agreed. I could never swap zinfandel versus cabernet sauvignon.
I can.

Ironically, I’d drink Ridge or Bedrock Zin over most Cali Cabs, notwithstanding that I am a huge Cab and Cab Franc fan!

PS. I have not tried Black Cat, but allegedly Charlie Carnes has one for me that is supposed to knock me off my dog feet.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#71 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 2:05 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:51 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:44 pm
Agreed. I could never swap zinfandel versus cabernet sauvignon.
I can.

Ironically, I’d drink Ridge or Bedrock Zin over most Cali Cabs, notwithstanding that I am a huge Cab and Cab Franc fan!

PS. I have not tried Black Cat, but allegedly Charlie Carnes has one for me that is supposed to knock me off my dog feet.
It's so good, it will smack up the grill of your Rover!

champagne.gif
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#72 Post by Marshall Gelb » June 7th, 2019, 2:07 pm

This price discussion pops up endlessly in different clothing. The reason that Napa wine prices continue to rise must be that people ARE buying them. Truthfully each one of us can only speak for himself but obviously these wines must be selling somewhere. Personally, I have stopped buying these wines due to multiple factors ......age, price, and most importantly, I already have too much wine. [wink.gif] The market is the market and if these wines truly are not selling then possibly we may see a price decrease. I, for one, don't foresee that happening. One thing about pricing that still does irk me is the number of people who trip all over themselves chasing the next big thing with absolutely no track record and howl like banshees when a proven producer raises his/hers prices to comparable levels. And as an aside, I still believe you can find outstanding Napa cabernet from proven producers for under $100.


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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#73 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 7th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 2:05 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:51 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:44 pm
Agreed. I could never swap zinfandel versus cabernet sauvignon.
I can.

Ironically, I’d drink Ridge or Bedrock Zin over most Cali Cabs, notwithstanding that I am a huge Cab and Cab Franc fan!

PS. I have not tried Black Cat, but allegedly Charlie Carnes has one for me that is supposed to knock me off my dog feet.

It's so good, it will smack up the grill of your Rover!

champagne.gif
We pair that sh*t with venison!

I guarantee you that the real Country Squires, Mr. Carnes, has venison and boar in his fridge/freezers, plural, or he just shoots a couple off his plantation.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#74 Post by Merrill Lindquist » June 7th, 2019, 3:08 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:51 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:44 pm
Agreed. I could never swap zinfandel versus cabernet sauvignon.
I can.

Ironically, I’d drink Ridge or Bedrock Zin over most Cali Cabs, notwithstanding that I am a huge Cab and Cab Franc fan!

PS. I have not tried Black Cat, but allegedly Charlie Carnes has one for me that is supposed to knock me off my dog feet.
I included in one of Mr. Carnes's shipments a bottle of my 2011 Special Selection for him to share with Robert. If Alfert don't like dat, den he like no Black Cat! flirtysmile
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#75 Post by David Baum » June 7th, 2019, 3:45 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:44 pm
Agreed. I could never swap zinfandel versus cabernet sauvignon.
You'd be surprised. I did a tasting at Scherrer and asked Fred to break out some older Zin. He opened an 05 that if you tasted blind you would like guess aged cab or Bordeaux blend. It was rather eye opening

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#76 Post by David Baum » June 7th, 2019, 3:47 pm

Marshall Gelb wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 2:07 pm
This price discussion pops up endlessly in different clothing. The reason that Napa wine prices continue to rise must be that people ARE buying them.

.....
Cheers!
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You might want to ask the cellar librarian at Bryant about that

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#77 Post by Merrill Lindquist » June 7th, 2019, 4:09 pm

I just opened an email from my glass (bottles) supplier, and they are informing us of an increase of 12%, in the form of a surcharge. This is due to tariffs/ocean freight increases. Can wineries absorb these increases any better than any other business? No. Whether to price a bottle of wine at $40 or $75 or $125 or $175 is not necessarily a function of greed on the part of the wineries.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#78 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 4:19 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:09 pm
I just opened an email from my glass (bottles) supplier, and they are informing us of an increase of 12%, in the form of a surcharge. This is due to tariffs/ocean freight increases. Can wineries absorb these increases any better than any other business? No. Whether to price a bottle of wine at $40 or $75 or $125 or $175 is not necessarily a function of greed on the part of the wineries.
I don't need to know secrets, but if the price of a empty glass bottle goes up from, say 3 dollars to 3.36, that wouldn't strike me as a reason for taking the price of a 90 dollar bottle up more than 50 cents.

No meant in any bad are negative way, just talking about some of those costs.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#79 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2019, 4:28 pm

Merrill, would you agree or not? Thank you.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#80 Post by Josh Grossman » June 7th, 2019, 4:48 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 6:50 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 5:50 pm
Anton D wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 5:45 pm
Just so long as people have a way to let other people know the cache[t] of the wine they are drinking, the upper end market should survive. Social signalling will prolong the high end's life span.
Thorsten Veblen lives, and he's following this thread closely.

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This is also happening right next door:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/styl ... -rich.html
https://www.axios.com/money-companies-i ... DIByfj8Egs
Think on the supply and demand scale, the demand, (to be seen with great cult wine at parties and on your yacht) is going to remain high.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#81 Post by Peter Valiquette » June 7th, 2019, 5:11 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:09 pm
I just opened an email from my glass (bottles) supplier, and they are informing us of an increase of 12%, in the form of a surcharge. This is due to tariffs/ocean freight increases. Can wineries absorb these increases any better than any other business? No. Whether to price a bottle of wine at $40 or $75 or $125 or $175 is not necessarily a function of greed on the part of the wineries.
We don’t make glass in ‘merica? We got sand!

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#82 Post by Merrill Lindquist » June 7th, 2019, 5:12 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:28 pm
Merrill, would you agree or not? Thank you.
It's not just an increase in glass prices. Snail mail brought an informational letter from my insurer for EMH that some of their terms will be changing. You MUST have liability insurance.

My corks and capsules also went up this year - off the top of my head I can't say by how much, but I noticed. Name a bunch of other "invisible" costs, and eventually the costs must get passed on. Not that all of a winery's pricing is cost-plus priced...of course there is also market value pricing.

As I said before, this wine business is exactly that from a winery's perspective - a business.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#83 Post by Alan Eden » June 7th, 2019, 5:15 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:33 pm
Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm
Greg K wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:24 pm


Then again, this entire thread is really a "woe is me I'm poor" thread by Alan to begin with.
But he doesn’t want to start an argument.
Be nice to Alan, he can't even afford decent color house paint.

Speaking of which:

What is red and smells like blue paint?
Click to see spoiler:
Red paint. [rofl.gif]
Wtf does house paint have to do with anything
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#84 Post by Alan Eden » June 7th, 2019, 5:17 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm
Greg K wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:24 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 10:25 am


So true.
Then again, this entire thread is really a "woe is me I'm poor" thread by Alan to begin with.
But he doesn’t want to start an argument.
Fine with argument, not fine with getting into salary dick measuring, anyone on this forum has enough to buy nice wine
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#85 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Alan, your threads are epic. Keep postin’!

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#86 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:15 pm

Wtf does house paint have to do with anything
I'm joking around with the real Alan. Alan Rath.

You can be #Alan2Wineberserker if you like! [cheers.gif]
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#87 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 5:21 pm

Peter Valiquette wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:11 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:09 pm
I just opened an email from my glass (bottles) supplier, and they are informing us of an increase of 12%, in the form of a surcharge. This is due to tariffs/ocean freight increases. Can wineries absorb these increases any better than any other business? No. Whether to price a bottle of wine at $40 or $75 or $125 or $175 is not necessarily a function of greed on the part of the wineries.
We don’t make glass in ‘merica? We got sand!
Yes, the Chinese glass miners are being hit hard by these tariffs.
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What is man, when you come to think upon him, but a minutely set, ingenious machine for turning, with infinite artfulness, the fine red wine of Shiraz into urine?

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#88 Post by Brian Tuite » June 7th, 2019, 5:24 pm

Talking to a customer/friend/vineyard owner in the RRV the other day and he said his cost of labor has increased drastically this year due to the housing construction boom from the Tubbs Fire. Guys are getting paid $30/hr to build houses. He had a crew weed whack last week and it was $28/hr/head to weed whack his vineyard. Up from $21/hr/head last year. The guy at the Fulton Produce stand said he might not have apple juice this year because labor is going to construction instead of ag and farmers cannot afford to pay what the laborers are getting from contractors.

Ya think the cost of labor affects the cost of grapes/wine?
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#89 Post by Brian Tuite » June 7th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm
Alan, your threads are epic. Keep postin’!
My salary doesn’t have a dick. I just checked.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#90 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » June 7th, 2019, 5:26 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:25 pm
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm
Alan, your threads are epic. Keep postin’!
My salary doesn’t have a dick. I just checked.
[winner.gif]

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#91 Post by Alan Eden » June 7th, 2019, 5:46 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm
Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:15 pm

Wtf does house paint have to do with anything
I'm joking around with the real Alan. Alan Rath.

You can be #Alan2Wineberserker if you like! [cheers.gif]
Now thats fighting talk, the real Alan !!!
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#92 Post by Anton D » June 7th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:46 pm
Anton D wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm
Alan Eden wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:15 pm

Wtf does house paint have to do with anything
I'm joking around with the real Alan. Alan Rath.

You can be #Alan2Wineberserker if you like! [cheers.gif]
Now thats fighting talk, the real Alan !!!
[rofl.gif]

I thought you might like!

[cheers.gif] [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif]
Anton Dotson

What is man, when you come to think upon him, but a minutely set, ingenious machine for turning, with infinite artfulness, the fine red wine of Shiraz into urine?

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#93 Post by Alan Eden » June 7th, 2019, 5:56 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:12 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:28 pm
Merrill, would you agree or not? Thank you.
It's not just an increase in glass prices. Snail mail brought an informational letter from my insurer for EMH that some of their terms will be changing. You MUST have liability insurance.

My corks and capsules also went up this year - off the top of my head I can't say by how much, but I noticed. Name a bunch of other "invisible" costs, and eventually the costs must get passed on. Not that all of a winery's pricing is cost-plus priced...of course there is also market value pricing.

As I said before, this wine business is exactly that from a winery's perspective - a business.
Illinois is putting 19 cents tax on gas, state income tax is doubling. Will wineries reduce prices so i can still buy the same amount ?? Oh hang on nope, life sucks sometimes. Nobody is against reasonable jumps, its the 20 % on a release that causes concern. Also why doesnt Bedrock or Carlisle increase $5 or $10 at a time ? It goes up $1 or $2 which is resonable. Im sorry but these large increases are often profit increases not cost increase
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#94 Post by Matthew Denny » June 7th, 2019, 5:58 pm

FOLLOWING

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#95 Post by Peter Valiquette » June 7th, 2019, 6:05 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:24 pm
Talking to a customer/friend/vineyard owner in the RRV the other day and he said his cost of labor has increased drastically this year due to the housing construction boom from the Tubbs Fire. Guys are getting paid $30/hr to build houses. He had a crew weed whack last week and it was $28/hr/head to weed whack his vineyard. Up from $21/hr/head last year. The guy at the Fulton Produce stand said he might not have apple juice this year because labor is going to construction instead of ag and farmers cannot afford to pay what the laborers are getting from contractors.

Ya think the cost of labor affects the cost of grapes/wine?
I’m not sure I’d want to buy a home built by a landscaper. [scratch.gif]

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#96 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2019, 6:11 pm

Peter Valiquette wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:11 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 4:09 pm
I just opened an email from my glass (bottles) supplier, and they are informing us of an increase of 12%, in the form of a surcharge. This is due to tariffs/ocean freight increases. Can wineries absorb these increases any better than any other business? No. Whether to price a bottle of wine at $40 or $75 or $125 or $175 is not necessarily a function of greed on the part of the wineries.
We don’t make glass in ‘merica? We got sand!
The finest, pure white sand, too.
WineHunter.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#97 Post by Andrew Demaree » June 7th, 2019, 6:11 pm

Just catching up on this thread and am puzzled by Roy’s suggestion. As someone who loves both cab and zinfandel, they don’t scratch the same itch for me. There are plenty of good Napa cabs still available in the $75 and under category. Several I like, buy, and would recommend include:

Drinkward Peschon
Becklyn
Myriad Napa
Quivet Napa
Rivers-Marie Napa
Chappellet
Adaptation
Envy
Round Pond Estate
Ruston “La Maestra”

I love Napa cab, very rarely buy wines in the $100+ category, and believe I drink very well.

Outside of Napa, yet still in California, there are a number of other good cab options that offer pleasure at a fair price (some of which have been named above).

If you don’t have the income or the inclination to spend $175+ on a bottle of wine, don’t. You certainly don’t have to spend $175/bottle to drink good cab. Only you know if it’s worth it to you.

I’ve twice received and passed on offers from MacDonald. I have no doubt the wine is as amazing as people say. But, I don’t have any interest in flipping wine and I’ve decided I can’t justify spending what they’re asking for a 3-pack of cab...even if it turns out to be the best cab I’ve ever had. It’s just not worth it to me. I’d rather have twice as many excellent bottles of wines that cost half as much. That’s just how I decide to spend my money. I respect that others feel differently.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#98 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2019, 6:14 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:25 pm
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm
Alan, your threads are epic. Keep postin’!
My salary doesn’t have a dick. I just checked.
The payroll department shorted you.
WineHunter.

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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#99 Post by Alan Eden » June 7th, 2019, 6:43 pm

Andrew Demaree wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 6:11 pm
Just catching up on this thread and am puzzled by Roy’s suggestion. As someone who loves both cab and zinfandel, they don’t scratch the same itch for me. There are plenty of good Napa cabs still available in the $75 and under category. Several I like, buy, and would recommend include:

Drinkward Peschon
Becklyn
Myriad Napa
Quivet Napa
Rivers-Marie Napa
Chappellet
Adaptation
Envy
Round Pond Estate
Ruston “La Maestra”

I love Napa cab, very rarely buy wines in the $100+ category, and believe I drink very well.

Outside of Napa, yet still in California, there are a number of other good cab options that offer pleasure at a fair price (some of which have been named above).

If you don’t have the income or the inclination to spend $175+ on a bottle of wine, don’t. You certainly don’t have to spend $175/bottle to drink good cab. Only you know if it’s worth it to you.

I’ve twice received and passed on offers from MacDonald. I have no doubt the wine is as amazing as people say. But, I don’t have any interest in flipping wine and I’ve decided I can’t justify spending what they’re asking for a 3-pack of cab...even if it turns out to be the best cab I’ve ever had. It’s just not worth it to me. I’d rather have twice as many excellent bottles of wines that cost half as much. That’s just how I decide to spend my money. I respect that others feel differently.
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Re: $175+ is the new $125 in Napa, will market support ?

#100 Post by Gray G » June 7th, 2019, 7:05 pm

no doubt many wineries are suffering from increased expenses, you need to have passion to be successful

big pockets or high prices can help with covering expenses

everyone knows how to make a small fortune in wine, start with a large fortune

there are many alternatives to Napa Cabernet, yet worldwide, Napa is the name the sells well at retail whatever the price
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