Does Modern Bdx Need 20-Years of Aging to Drink Well?

Reading the thread about the 2018’s and the promotional stuff received from retailers, it seems like the 2018’s are somewhat reasonably priced for the scores that they are garnering. The only Bdx I have ever purchased is a few 2009’s, but I’m getting interested again. One thing holding me back is my age and the perception that I’m going to have to hold these for 20-years to get my money’s worth. If I do buy, I’m not going to buy anything more than 6-12 cherry-picked bottles, so buying in bulk and testing every few years is not an option. What say you? With the warmer climate and better wine making, is it necessary to age these wines for so long? Cheers!

I sort of hope so, because I have a few bottles of 2001 Troplong Mondot that was godawful a few years ago. I’m not holding my breath, though. My guess is that the modern versions of BDX will never turn back into swans.

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Tough call. I’ve found many lower-priced Bordeaux (some go-to ones for me like Capbern, Senejac, Cantermerle, Lanessan, Dauphine, etc) drink well young, and don’t have a ‘closed’ phase, though they also CAN last 10-20 years easily. Better bottles seem to be hardcore full-stop tannic assaults when young (as I recall from UGC years ago, where I felt like there was a war going on in my mouth and I lost) and it’s an exercise to be sure you don’t touch them until they are ready. I would say 10 years is fair, though, for most wines other than super high end Bordeaux, as while they aren’t perhaps ‘ideal’ at that stage, still enjoyable and starting to gain complexity.

What kind of Bordeaux are you planning to buy? As for me, I bought rather big into 2014 and then 2016 so I’m not excited about jumping into 2018 as well.

Personally, I find that to be untrue. The number of good wines from Bordeaux that require 20 years of age before drinking well is quite small IMO.

Of course, that depends on the wines you buy, your cellar temperature, the character of the vintage and what you want in a wine. But as a general rule, for most wines, including the top wines, 20 years is a very long time to wait.

FWIW, all my best wine experiences have been with older wines. But even those wines still had fruit. It is a good topic, but not one you are going to find much consensus with.

I agree with Jeff. My best drinking experience has been with older wine. BUT I have had several 2009 wines this year that are very,very good. They are rich,ripe, full body wines. I do think they will get better with 5 to ten years of age. If you want the extra spice, complexity, interest you have to wait.

When you say modern, do you mean modern style “style”, or current vintage(s)?

Generally no, but there are probably some that require at least 20 years. Well stored back vintages of Bordeaux are also widely available, including late releases from negociants, so if you want a 20 year old wine you don’t necessarily have to wait.

If you want specific examples I thought 2001 Rauzan Segla and 2014 Leoville Barton drank well within the last 12 months. Right bank wines also have a reputation for drinking earlier.

Probably 30

I agree with Jeff and Todd. Many lesser Bordeaux can often drink well in the 5-10 year window - and many Bordeaux will show you some goods for a year or two after arrival before closing down (e.g., been loving some 2015 Siran and Labegorce!). [thankyou.gif] In addition, the particular vintage can make a big difference on early drinkibility. I have found a good number of 2012s (which I didn’t buy on futures but have since picked up a few) I have tried to be drinking pretty well right now - wondering if the 2017s may fit this bill as well. Conversely, the 1995s and 2000s seem to be taking a good while to come around. [truce.gif] Finally, since I drink the lower end $25-$40 per Bordeaux, I don’t sweat burning a few young - especially from half bottle. [wink.gif]

For clarification, I was thinking along the lines of current vintages.

I’d say the predicate questions are, what’s your age and what wines are you looking at? If you are 53 and love Montrose - that would be me - you are a fool to buy 2018 Montrose! :wink:

Many of the top Classified Growths do indeed show best at 20+. If you are gonna drop $100-$250 or more on top wines, I’d say backfill over new releases if you cannot wait 20 years. Now that said, many do start showing their goods in 15, IMHO. I started enjoying some 2000s a few years ago, but acknowledging the big boys like Montrose need more time. Vintages 2001 and 2004 will be ready before that.

Why not look at 2014 over 2018? Already has a few years of bottle age, don’t have to play with futures, and prices on many wines are lower than current releases or 2018 futures. Plus, again IMHO, it’s a more classic vintage. And, it should be ready before so-called bigger vintages like 2010, 2015, 2016, etc.

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Good idea - why not look at older vintages still on the market. A lot of the wines are OK now, depending on what you’re looking for and willing to spend. I don’t think it’s a requirement to spend $250+ to drink well. I tasted some small chateaux yesterday and they were pretty good for drinking now, probably better with a few years but nothing like 20 or more years.

But really, this is what to consider:

“Of course, that depends on the wines you buy, your cellar temperature, the character of the vintage > and what you want in a wine> .”

If the only Bdx the OP has ever purchased was 2009, that’s a warm year and not a lot to go on. I’d try a few bottles of older wines before buying and holding. I know a lot of people buy wines they’ve never tasted and they don’t drink them for several years - that’s just so weird to me when it’s completely possible to buy a few older vintages from different producers before sinking any serious money into buying things to cellar. Not every young wine has mouth-drying tannins and hidden fruit - the 2009s from St. Emillion I tried were ripe and lush, more like modern Napa wines than old-time Bdx.

Ditto for my palate. [cheers.gif]

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Backfilling Bordeaux is so simple. You can get the 85 Pichon Lalande for the same price as the 2018, and while provenance is always a concern, cab handles adverse weather better and you also save on storage for the 20+ years you’d need for your en primeur bottles to start reaching maturity. And of course you can drink them now.

I only wish you could backfill Burgundy/Rhones as easily.

About a month ago Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
Screenshot_20190511-230825_Messages.jpg

Sad to read that. We could not share more diametrically opposing views on what Bordeaux should be. The critics and consultants want to make it Napa.

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So sad… I agree with your (after)thought, and I like Jeb, even if I disagree with his palate (now), but what a massively conflicted sentiment. He almost laments the wines of the past, but lauds the winemaking and wines of today.

I agree about buying 2014s over 2018s for the OP.

So, how much 2018 Montrose are you buying?

Back to the Dunnuck statement, out of curiosity, I jumped on Leve’s site to check out what he says about just one representative classic Chateau and its drinking window: Montrose. He says two decades to civilize the 2016 and recommends 20 for the 2018. Leve is a modernist, in my view, and yet not even he goes that far. I will agree that many Bordeaux are now made to be flashier early on, but I submit, are these really “Bordeaux” or wines that now just happen to be made in Bordeaux? Frankly, many of these could really come from anywhere, having lost the typicity that is so unique to Bordeaux. And, will they ever show those secondary and tertiary characteristics that make patience so worthwhile? That first whiff I had last week of a 1973 Latour, with my close friend MarcF, now that speaks Bordeaux. At least in my humble, yak palate view.

I don’t know how long Jeb has been drinking and tasting Bordeaux. But Bdx is huge. You can go there and spend a week tasting bad wines from second rate grapes or sub par winemaking, or spend a week tasting those smooth ripe wines he talks about, or spend a week tasting wines that are neither. There is a lot of wine made there and it’s not all made by the same three consultants.

I think Robert’s questions are still where you start.