I won't go into specifics but...

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Glenn L e v i n e
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I won't go into specifics but...

#1 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » May 29th, 2019, 9:56 am

we did the wine tourism thing this past Sunday after seeing Tedeschi-Trucks band outdoors in the rain Saturday night in Salem. If you can see this band and you enjoy RnR music or big bands drop everything to go, they are extraordinary.

Anyway on Sunday we went to three Willamette Valley wineries, board darlings and unknowns, and tasted and chatted. WV is so beautiful to visit, consistently stunning. So all three places were blowing out Pinot Gris, recent releases and older vintages. Upon longer visits, during more private conversations, all three places had either vignerons or estate owners tell me they were pulling out their Pinot Gris.

I'm not often surprised by the wine world but this was news to me.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#2 Post by G. Bienstock » May 29th, 2019, 10:10 am

Money wins again. Yes, I do like OR PG.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#3 Post by Scott Tallman » May 29th, 2019, 11:09 am

This has been going on for awhile as Chardonnay is on the ascent. I don’t mind PG, but i’ve Never understood why PG was the most planted white grape in OR by a large margin.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#4 Post by Ian Dorin » May 29th, 2019, 11:14 am

Scott Tallman wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:09 am
This has been going on for awhile as Chardonnay is on the ascent. I don’t mind PG, but i’ve Never understood why PG was the most planted white grape in OR by a large margin.
I would bet there is a sell through issue too. Shelf life on most OR PG isn't going to be as high as Pinot or Chard, so from that stand point, probably more prudent to go with longer shelf life varietals.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#5 Post by Mike Evans » May 29th, 2019, 11:17 am

Based on recent bottles of 1988 and 1999 Eyrie PG, that is a shame, as both were exceptional.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#6 Post by Keith A k e r s » May 29th, 2019, 11:17 am

Ian Dorin wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:14 am
Scott Tallman wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:09 am
This has been going on for awhile as Chardonnay is on the ascent. I don’t mind PG, but i’ve Never understood why PG was the most planted white grape in OR by a large margin.
I would bet there is a sell through issue too. Shelf life on most OR PG isn't going to be as high as Pinot or Chard, so from that stand point, probably more prudent to go with longer shelf life varietals.
I'd also be willing to bet that the land values in the Willamette are having a major effect on that as well. Chard will fetch a higher price while PG is a quick turnaround wine for producers and will never retail for what Chard will

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#7 Post by Jim Anderson » May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am

Been saying this for years and the reality of it is finally settling in. Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing. It has a distinct ceiling to it and given its relative ease to grow, relative low acidity and relative early picking dates makes it an easy thing to market at a mass level and sell in quantities to airports and banquets halls. It’s inoffensive and ignorable which are two highly marketable characteristics of large production wines.

So, in Oregon it will and is becoming stratified into basically 2 (and with a nod folks like Marcus and Kelley Fox and a couple/few others, 3) distinct groups. The first is simply the volume people. Make thousands, preferably 10s of thousands of cases of it. Profit by volume. The second is the amount a winery could sell out of there tasting room from, probably, what they have planted at their Estate or some sort of tightly held vineyard. Different amounts for different wineries. But, in general, not that much. The third is the small amount of people doing something different and unique with it. Anything in between is death. Growers of it trying to sell it as fruit are finding limited buyers as only a small handful of the big boys. It’s just not a very diverse wine to sell.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#8 Post by Andrew Demaree » May 29th, 2019, 11:29 am

I don’t know squat about OR Pinot Gris, but have to second your advice about catching the Tedeschi Trucks Band in concert.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#9 Post by lleichtman » May 29th, 2019, 11:33 am

Enjoyed the Trucks. Tedeschi band 2 years ago in Albuquerque though it rained on that one too. I have always found PG insipid. It is produced better in Alsace and Alto Adige that Oregon.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#10 Post by Scott E. » May 29th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing.
Okay, I'll bite. Where is the one place on earth? Cheers!
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#11 Post by Scott Tallman » May 29th, 2019, 3:01 pm

Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Been saying this for years and the reality of it is finally settling in. Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing. It has a distinct ceiling to it and given its relative ease to grow, relative low acidity and relative early picking dates makes it an easy thing to market at a mass level and sell in quantities to airports and banquets halls. It’s inoffensive and ignorable which are two highly marketable characteristics of large production wines.

So, in Oregon it will and is becoming stratified into basically 2 (and with a nod folks like Marcus and Kelley Fox and a couple/few others, 3) distinct groups. The first is simply the volume people. Make thousands, preferably 10s of thousands of cases of it. Profit by volume. The second is the amount a winery could sell out of there tasting room from, probably, what they have planted at their Estate or some sort of tightly held vineyard. Different amounts for different wineries. But, in general, not that much. The third is the small amount of people doing something different and unique with it. Anything in between is death. Growers of it trying to sell it as fruit are finding limited buyers as only a small handful of the big boys. It’s just not a very diverse wine to sell.
Yup. As much as I like PG from Marcus, Kelley and a few others, I’ve had awesome Chardonnay from a broader swath of producers at different price points. Seems like a no brained for various reasons mentioned in this thread that PG plantings finally fall back to reality while Chardonnay increases. Hell, I’d like to see it fall below Pinot Blanc as I’ve had many enjoyable bottles of OR PB that outshine PG IMO.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#12 Post by Rick Allen » May 29th, 2019, 3:39 pm

I was really enamored with Oregon Pinot Gris in about 1987 (I think Ponzi and Eyrie were the only producers then), and have occasionally tasted good ones since, though I think I could count the really goods ones in the last decade on one hand. I agree with Scott that it is much easier to find good Chardonnay than drinkable Pinot Gris in Oregon. I still get gifted PG occasionally and except for a few top producers (Eyrie & Goodfellow), I generally use it as cooking wine. I would rather see at least some of the plantings grafted over to Gamay and perhaps Syrah.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#13 Post by Scott G r u n e r » May 29th, 2019, 4:30 pm

There was a time 15-20 years ago that inexpensive oregon pinot gris was my go to white- King Estate on the cheap low end, Eyrie and others higher up. We liked that it wasn't oaky like many chardonnay, less aggressive grapefruit and grassy as many of the sauv blancs. Now anytime I try it, it just seems uninteresting. There are a lot more chardonnay options that are less oaky and buttery, and the real reason is that now it is much easier to find good Albarino, good Rose, Gruner Veltliner, and the like.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#14 Post by Howard Cooper » May 29th, 2019, 4:33 pm

Scott E. wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 2:47 pm
Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing.
Okay, I'll bite. Where is the one place on earth? Cheers!
I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#15 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 29th, 2019, 4:52 pm

And more importantly, where the heck has the Big Doc been! We need his color on the boards! Like cowbell, one can never get enough. As for Pinot Gris, I doubt that I have had any outside of Alsace, and from there, Major yum!

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#16 Post by Markus S » May 29th, 2019, 5:07 pm

Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing.
Alsace? Venezia? Alto Adige? Spell it out, boy.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#17 Post by John Morris » May 29th, 2019, 5:10 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 4:33 pm
Scott E. wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 2:47 pm
Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing.
Okay, I'll bite. Where is the one place on earth? Cheers!
I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.
Probably, but that wouldn't give enough credit to the Germans. I've generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it's not imported, so far as I know.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#18 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » May 29th, 2019, 5:11 pm

I did have a glorious HA Marzen during an otherwise yeech meal in Amity.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#19 Post by Howard Cooper » May 29th, 2019, 5:15 pm

John Morris wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:10 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 4:33 pm
Scott E. wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 2:47 pm


Okay, I'll bite. Where is the one place on earth? Cheers!
I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.
Probably, but that wouldn't give enough credit to the Germans. I've generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it's not imported, so far as I know.
I think the best ones I have had have been from Trimbach, Albert Mann and Zind Humbrecht (esp. for stickies).
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#20 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » May 29th, 2019, 5:34 pm

The Eyrie Vineyards Pinot Gris Original Vines is good stuff.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#21 Post by T Welch » May 29th, 2019, 5:44 pm

Andrew Demaree wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:29 am
I don’t know squat about OR Pinot Gris, but have to second your advice about catching the Tedeschi Trucks Band in concert.
Yep, we saw them on 5/11 at the Fox in Oakland. Fantastic show at a great venue.
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#22 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » May 29th, 2019, 5:54 pm

We saw Derek with the ABB there in 09 I think. Incredible.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#23 Post by T Welch » May 29th, 2019, 5:56 pm

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:54 pm
We saw Derek with the ABB there in 09 I think. Incredible.
With Warren Haynes? I saw that show too. Outstanding.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#24 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » May 29th, 2019, 6:27 pm

We saw the Mountain Jam show that time around.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#25 Post by Jay Miller » May 29th, 2019, 6:34 pm

Scott Tallman wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 3:01 pm


Yup. As much as I like PG from Marcus, Kelley and a few others, I’ve had awesome Chardonnay from a broader swath of producers at different price points. Seems like a no brained for various reasons mentioned in this thread that PG plantings finally fall back to reality while Chardonnay increases. Hell, I’d like to see it fall below Pinot Blanc as I’ve had many enjoyable bottles of OR PB that outshine PG IMO.
Ditto, I’ve had much more interesting PB than PG from Oregon.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#26 Post by Karl K » May 29th, 2019, 8:44 pm

Alto Adige as well as Alsace makes nice Pinot G.

Not saying all production from either locale is good.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#27 Post by maureen nelson » May 30th, 2019, 6:21 am

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 9:56 am
we did the wine tourism thing this past Sunday after seeing Tedeschi-Trucks band outdoors in the rain Saturday night in Salem. If you can see this band and you enjoy RnR music or big bands drop everything to go, they are extraordinary.

Anyway on Sunday we went to three Willamette Valley wineries, board darlings and unknowns, and tasted and chatted. WV is so beautiful to visit, consistently stunning. So all three places were blowing out Pinot Gris, recent releases and older vintages. Upon longer visits, during more private conversations, all three places had either vignerons or estate owners tell me they were pulling out their Pinot Gris.

I'm not often surprised by the wine world but this was news to me.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#28 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » May 30th, 2019, 7:39 am

ok.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#29 Post by Doug Schulman » May 30th, 2019, 10:16 am

Mike Evans wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:17 am
Based on recent bottles of 1988 and 1999 Eyrie PG, that is a shame, as both were exceptional.
VERY few producers make PG in Oregon that is even comparable to Eyrie's in quality. I don't think it would be a shame at all if 80-90% of the wineries making it gave up.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#30 Post by rfelthoven » May 30th, 2019, 10:16 am

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:34 pm
The Eyrie Vineyards Pinot Gris Original Vines is good stuff.
Agreed!
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#31 Post by Doug Schulman » May 30th, 2019, 10:18 am

Edited because I was thinking of Pinot Blanc.
Last edited by Doug Schulman on May 30th, 2019, 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#32 Post by David Schliecker » May 30th, 2019, 10:22 am

Andrew Demaree wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:29 am
I don’t know squat about OR Pinot Gris, but have to second your advice about catching the Tedeschi Trucks Band in concert.
This for me too.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#33 Post by Ian Dorin » May 31st, 2019, 5:10 am

Keith A k e r s wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:17 am
Ian Dorin wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:14 am
Scott Tallman wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:09 am
This has been going on for awhile as Chardonnay is on the ascent. I don’t mind PG, but i’ve Never understood why PG was the most planted white grape in OR by a large margin.
I would bet there is a sell through issue too. Shelf life on most OR PG isn't going to be as high as Pinot or Chard, so from that stand point, probably more prudent to go with longer shelf life varietals.
I'd also be willing to bet that the land values in the Willamette are having a major effect on that as well. Chard will fetch a higher price while PG is a quick turnaround wine for producers and will never retail for what Chard will
Another possibility for sure. The demand for Chardonnay in Oregon seems to be much higher now than even 5 years ago.

Pinot Gris can still produce good quality at much higher yields than Chardonnay, so that balances it out a bit. A decent number of Napa Vintners have told me SB is far smarter to plant than Chardonnay since it can yield higher, and produce more juice per ton.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#34 Post by Mike Grammer » May 31st, 2019, 10:35 am

Mike Evans wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:17 am
Based on recent bottles of 1988 and 1999 Eyrie PG, that is a shame, as both were exceptional.
Echo, and espec. the 1988. Some of the great PG in the world is made here, Doug's comment is likely fair, but I hope it won't be a universal thing in Oregon that the vines get pulled.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#35 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » June 1st, 2019, 12:24 pm

Anyone want lossless audio files from T-T at The Paramount in Seattle from last month just reach out.

Excellent sound.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#36 Post by Brian Glas » June 1st, 2019, 2:18 pm

Scott Tallman wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:09 am
This has been going on for awhile as Chardonnay is on the ascent. I don’t mind PG, but i’ve Never understood why PG was the most planted white grape in OR by a large margin.
Agreed. I am surprised it hasn't been ripped out faster? Are these sites not good for producing Chard or Pinot Noir? I can't think of a single producer in Oregon where I liked their Pinot Gris better than their Chard.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#37 Post by Frank Drew » June 2nd, 2019, 8:05 am

John Morris wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:10 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 4:33 pm
Scott E. wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 2:47 pm


Okay, I'll bite. Where is the one place on earth? Cheers!
I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.
Probably, but that wouldn't give enough credit to the Germans. I've generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it's not imported, so far as I know.
John, years ago I had a really sensational Grauburgunder Eiswein from Donnhoff.

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#38 Post by Rick Allen » June 2nd, 2019, 8:50 am

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:11 pm
I did have a glorious HA Marzen during an otherwise yeech meal in Amity.
Glad you enjoyed it!

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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#39 Post by Eric Sch » June 2nd, 2019, 9:59 am

rfelthoven wrote:
May 30th, 2019, 10:16 am
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:34 pm
The Eyrie Vineyards Pinot Gris Original Vines is good stuff.
Agreed!
Get it while you can - the old vines aren't doing super well. Expect a few changes moving forward. The Original Vines Pinot Noir bottling has already evolved to 'The Eyrie' labeling and the OVPG will see some changes in the future from what I'm told.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#40 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 2nd, 2019, 12:04 pm

Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Been saying this for years and the reality of it is finally settling in. Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing. It has a distinct ceiling to it and given its relative ease to grow, relative low acidity and relative early picking dates makes it an easy thing to market at a mass level and sell in quantities to airports and banquets halls. It’s inoffensive and ignorable which are two highly marketable characteristics of large production wines.

So, in Oregon it will and is becoming stratified into basically 2 (and with a nod folks like Marcus and Kelley Fox and a couple/few others, 3) distinct groups. The first is simply the volume people. Make thousands, preferably 10s of thousands of cases of it. Profit by volume. The second is the amount a winery could sell out of there tasting room from, probably, what they have planted at their Estate or some sort of tightly held vineyard. Different amounts for different wineries. But, in general, not that much. The third is the small amount of people doing something different and unique with it. Anything in between is death. Growers of it trying to sell it as fruit are finding limited buyers as only a small handful of the big boys. It’s just not a very diverse wine to sell.
I may not like this post, but it’s mostly true.

I do not think Pinot Gris in the Willamette Valley can be as profound as Chardonnay or Riesling from the Willamette Valley. But I do think there is a place for it as a great grape. It’s versatility allows for a remarkable range of very lovely expressions...in the hands of a dedicated and talented producer.

It’s a challenging grape to do well, requiring a similar commitment to detail, effort, and understanding what the grapes need in order for the wine to be special. But Pinot Gris can be beautifully crisp and linear as a dry white wine, it can be beautifully textural fermented in acacia, and I really prefer the Ramato of Pinot Gris, that both Cameron and myself are doing, to 95% of the rose produced in Oregon(I still don’t understand why we are ripping out Gris while there’s a new crappy pink wine released every day). The Rouge de Gris from Vincent and Cameron are also both very distinct and very enjoyable wines. I prefer them to most Oregon Gamay, just because they seem to have a better resonance with old world savory wines than current Willamette Valley Gamay wines are achieving(I do like WV Gamay though, just not as much).

In the end, IMO, Pinot Gris is stuck between the rock of being made by every half talented winery and big production winery in Oregon because it’s almost always drinkable and relatively few average consumers are that familiar with wines from Germany, Alto Adige, or Friuli(so there’s low bar to jump over for most producers to make one and find it salable) and the hard place of a $25 maximum price point. I appreciate Rick and Jim’s asides for my wines, Eyrie, and Kelley Fox.

The reality for me is that I make no money what-so-ever on the reserve Pinot Gris. None. It’s fermented in $2000 apiece 800L acacia foudres, aged for 18 month, being topped and treated for that time just like Pinot Noir, and sells in Oregon for $20 because that’s what Pinot Gris costs, and I don’t have the time to paddle upstream to try and get someone to pay me $35 for the wine. Plus, it’s a really nice wine from a grape that compares reasonably with Melon de Bourgogne, and Clos de Briords is $25-28, so I don’t think $35 is smart.

That said, I grafted half of the Pinot Gris at Whistling Ridge over to Chardonnay clones from Clos Electrique this spring, and I doubt anyone will mind that change.
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Scott Tallman
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#41 Post by Scott Tallman » June 23rd, 2019, 3:33 pm

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
June 2nd, 2019, 12:04 pm
Jim Anderson wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 11:28 am
Been saying this for years and the reality of it is finally settling in. Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing. It has a distinct ceiling to it and given its relative ease to grow, relative low acidity and relative early picking dates makes it an easy thing to market at a mass level and sell in quantities to airports and banquets halls. It’s inoffensive and ignorable which are two highly marketable characteristics of large production wines.

So, in Oregon it will and is becoming stratified into basically 2 (and with a nod folks like Marcus and Kelley Fox and a couple/few others, 3) distinct groups. The first is simply the volume people. Make thousands, preferably 10s of thousands of cases of it. Profit by volume. The second is the amount a winery could sell out of there tasting room from, probably, what they have planted at their Estate or some sort of tightly held vineyard. Different amounts for different wineries. But, in general, not that much. The third is the small amount of people doing something different and unique with it. Anything in between is death. Growers of it trying to sell it as fruit are finding limited buyers as only a small handful of the big boys. It’s just not a very diverse wine to sell.
I may not like this post, but it’s mostly true.

I do not think Pinot Gris in the Willamette Valley can be as profound as Chardonnay or Riesling from the Willamette Valley. But I do think there is a place for it as a great grape. It’s versatility allows for a remarkable range of very lovely expressions...in the hands of a dedicated and talented producer.

It’s a challenging grape to do well, requiring a similar commitment to detail, effort, and understanding what the grapes need in order for the wine to be special. But Pinot Gris can be beautifully crisp and linear as a dry white wine, it can be beautifully textural fermented in acacia, and I really prefer the Ramato of Pinot Gris, that both Cameron and myself are doing, to 95% of the rose produced in Oregon(I still don’t understand why we are ripping out Gris while there’s a new crappy pink wine released every day). The Rouge de Gris from Vincent and Cameron are also both very distinct and very enjoyable wines. I prefer them to most Oregon Gamay, just because they seem to have a better resonance with old world savory wines than current Willamette Valley Gamay wines are achieving(I do like WV Gamay though, just not as much).

In the end, IMO, Pinot Gris is stuck between the rock of being made by every half talented winery and big production winery in Oregon because it’s almost always drinkable and relatively few average consumers are that familiar with wines from Germany, Alto Adige, or Friuli(so there’s low bar to jump over for most producers to make one and find it salable) and the hard place of a $25 maximum price point. I appreciate Rick and Jim’s asides for my wines, Eyrie, and Kelley Fox.

The reality for me is that I make no money what-so-ever on the reserve Pinot Gris. None. It’s fermented in $2000 apiece 800L acacia foudres, aged for 18 month, being topped and treated for that time just like Pinot Noir, and sells in Oregon for $20 because that’s what Pinot Gris costs, and I don’t have the time to paddle upstream to try and get someone to pay me $35 for the wine. Plus, it’s a really nice wine from a grape that compares reasonably with Melon de Bourgogne, and Clos de Briords is $25-28, so I don’t think $35 is smart.

That said, I grafted half of the Pinot Gris at Whistling Ridge over to Chardonnay clones from Clos Electrique this spring, and I doubt anyone will mind that change.
I own a few bottles of the Cameron Rouge de Gris, but never tasted it. Just opened the 2014. Waaaay more interesting than any Oregon Pinot Gris I’ve tried (edit to add, instead of “interesting” I should have noted “distinctive” as Eyrie’s PG and Your Clover are really interesting, this wine is a different animal than those). Not sure if it’s the fermentation on the skins, the Vineyard source (Abbey Ridge), the ripeness, or the Cameron funk (oh, it’s there, although I found it subtle but others may find it more obtrusive), but a very interesting wine with a nice savory component. Not one I’d want to drink regularly, but I would not be disappointed to drink 1-2 bottles a year.

Even though I really enjoy your Ramato of Pinot Gris, I won’t mind at all you working with Clos Electrique cuttings of Chardonnay at WR at the expense of Pinot Gris.
Last edited by Scott Tallman on June 23rd, 2019, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#42 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » June 23rd, 2019, 4:35 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:15 pm
John Morris wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:10 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 4:33 pm


I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.
Probably, but that wouldn't give enough credit to the Germans. I've generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it's not imported, so far as I know.
I think the best ones I have had have been from Trimbach, Albert Mann and Zind Humbrecht (esp. for stickies).
A lot of this, and I'm a generally perking my ears up for anything in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia arena where it can play center stage or just play ever-so-nice within a paint palate of varietals.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#43 Post by jcoley3 » June 23rd, 2019, 4:42 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 6:34 pm
Scott Tallman wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 3:01 pm


Yup. As much as I like PG from Marcus, Kelley and a few others, I’ve had awesome Chardonnay from a broader swath of producers at different price points. Seems like a no brained for various reasons mentioned in this thread that PG plantings finally fall back to reality while Chardonnay increases. Hell, I’d like to see it fall below Pinot Blanc as I’ve had many enjoyable bottles of OR PB that outshine PG IMO.
Ditto, I’ve had much more interesting PB than PG from Oregon.
+ another.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#44 Post by Neal.Mollen » June 23rd, 2019, 4:45 pm

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 9:56 am
we did the wine tourism thing this past Sunday after seeing Tedeschi-Trucks band outdoors in the rain Saturday night in Salem. If you can see this band and you enjoy RnR music or big bands drop everything to go, they are extraordinary.

Anyway on Sunday we went to three Willamette Valley wineries, board darlings and unknowns, and tasted and chatted. WV is so beautiful to visit, consistently stunning. So all three places were blowing out Pinot Gris, recent releases and older vintages. Upon longer visits, during more private conversations, all three places had either vignerons or estate owners tell me they were pulling out their Pinot Gris.

I'm not often surprised by the wine world but this was news to me.
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Re: I won't go into specifics but...

#45 Post by J a y H a c k » June 23rd, 2019, 7:21 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:15 pm
John Morris wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 5:10 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 4:33 pm


I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.
Probably, but that wouldn't give enough credit to the Germans. I've generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it's not imported, so far as I know.
I think the best ones I have had have been from Trimbach, Albert Mann and Zind Humbrecht (esp. for stickies).
OMG. We agree again. Thread drift.
  • 2000 Zind-Humbrecht Tokay Pinot Gris Clos Jebsal Sélection de Grains Nobles - France, Alsace (6/14/2008)
    This is an outstanding and extraordinary wine. Tasted with Olivier Humbrecht today at Zachy's. I have had the 1998 of this wine, which was one of the best wines I have ever tasted, so let me compare them. This wine is lighter in color with higher acidity, crisper botrytis and a bit less sugar than the 1998. The 1998, which I had two years ago so approximately at the same point on the aging scale, was darker and more complex, showing the positive effects of aging. Olivier said that the 2000 will age more slowly and could last 20 to 30 years. In addition to the acid and botrytis, there was minerality, and various fruits including apricots, pineapple and pears. I expect that this wine will get better with age and develop lots of secondary characteristics. Olivier told one of the other people that he uses large barriques instead of small barrels, which keeps down the oaky, woody, vanilla flavors but I do not know if he was talking about this wine or some of his larger production items. (97 pts.)
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