Leaving wine overnight versus aging

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Sh@n A
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Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#1 Post by Sh@n A » May 27th, 2019, 3:22 am

A few months ago there was a group that slow o’d two 2011 barolos that made them appear slightly riper at a tasting 12 hours later, leading some to declare these wines were given too much air / may not age well. Conversely some believe these wines will age just fine or even spectacularly.

And so I ask the question, how much of a proxy is giving wine extended air to forecast how a flavors of a wine will evolve with time? I imagine leaving a wine overnight would soften tannins, but I less sure how the fruit or acidity would change in such a period. Said another way, I wonder whether slow o or leaving a wine overnight is a poor proxy for aging a wine 10 years, where you may see greater changes to fruit alongside a softening of tannin?
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#2 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » May 27th, 2019, 4:30 am

I believe it's a poor proxy. Not without some merit, but basically not (sorry missed this word before) revelatory. The only way to know how a wine will age is to wait. Or to wait on so many other wines that showed similarly in their youth that you can extrapolate. Extended air may help your young wine show "better," or more to your taste, but it will not reveal the aged wine hiding within. My opinion.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#3 Post by Howard Cooper » May 27th, 2019, 4:36 am

Poor proxy. I think the best way to judge how a wine will age is track record.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#4 Post by Gerhard P. » May 27th, 2019, 4:45 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 4:30 am
I believe it's a poor proxy. Not without some merit, but basically revelatory. The only way to know how a wine will age is to wait. Or to wait on so many other wines that showed similarly in their youth that you can extrapolate. Extended air may help your young wine show "better," or more to your taste, but it will not reveal the aged wine hiding within. My opinion.
Generally I agree with Sarah.
Leaving a wine open (slow ox) or decanting will NOT (or almost not) soften the tannins but open the fruit and other components better - so the tannic structure will not be as obvious. Too long will oxidize the wine - which is not good.

On the other hand: decanting immediately without slow-oxing might cause the structure (tannin and acidity) to be sharper, less sweet ... some very young and strong wines might take it well, others will show less well after fast exposure to air.
So my suggestion is always to open a bottle well in advance - and if necessary decanting only after some hours.

To estimate the aging potential there are two ways: a lot of experience ... and waiting time.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#5 Post by Otto Forsberg » May 27th, 2019, 4:49 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 4:45 am
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 4:30 am
I believe it's a poor proxy. Not without some merit, but basically revelatory. The only way to know how a wine will age is to wait. Or to wait on so many other wines that showed similarly in their youth that you can extrapolate. Extended air may help your young wine show "better," or more to your taste, but it will not reveal the aged wine hiding within. My opinion.
Generally I agree with Sarah.
Leaving a wine open (slow ox) or decanting will NOT (or almost not) soften the tannins but open the fruit and other components better - so the tannic structure will not be as obvious. Too long will oxidize the wine - which is not good.

On the other hand: decanting immediately without slow-oxing might cause the structure (tannin and acidity) to be sharper, less sweet ... some very young and strong wines might take it well, others will show less well after fast exposure to air.
So my suggestion is always to open a bottle well in advance - and if necessary decanting only after some hours.

To estimate the aging potential there are two ways: a lot of experience ... and waiting time.
Seconded. Keeping a wine open does not do anything to the tannins or the acidity, but might change the fruit enough to make the tannins or acidity appear softer.

However, I've never noticed any differences between a wine that has been opened well in advance and one opened and immediately (double-) decanted.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#6 Post by Claus Jeppesen » May 27th, 2019, 5:01 am

Some wines get undrinkable after extended air exposure (e.g. 12 hours)
Some wines do not improve
Some wines improves
Some wines improves a lot
For some wines it might be mandatory to leave them for more than 12 hours with increased surface in the bottle
YMMV off course
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=125316
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#7 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » May 27th, 2019, 5:17 am

Claus Jeppesen wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 5:01 am
Some wines get undrinkable after extended air exposure (e.g. 12 hours)
Some wines do not improve
Some wines improves
Some wines improves a lot
For some wines it might be mandatory to leave them for more than 12 hours with increased surface in the bottle
YMMV off course
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=125316
All this is true, but the OP is not asking about whether air of some sort improves the wine or not. That's a separate topic. The question at hand is whether leaving open is a proxy for aging. I don't think it is.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#8 Post by Claus Jeppesen » May 27th, 2019, 5:32 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 5:17 am
Claus Jeppesen wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 5:01 am
Some wines get undrinkable after extended air exposure (e.g. 12 hours)
Some wines do not improve
Some wines improves
Some wines improves a lot
For some wines it might be mandatory to leave them for more than 12 hours with increased surface in the bottle
YMMV off course
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=125316
All this is true, but the OP is not asking about whether air of some sort improves the wine or not. That's a separate topic. The question at hand is whether leaving open is a proxy for aging. I don't think it is.
Thanks Sarah
I agree with you too
Aeration has nothing to do with maturing/cellaring
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#9 Post by LMD Ermitaño » May 27th, 2019, 7:23 am

Claus Jeppesen wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 5:32 am
Aeration has nothing to do with maturing/cellaring
Agreed.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#10 Post by Eric Ifune » May 27th, 2019, 7:30 am

No. The complex chemical reactions of ageing, the formation of aldehydes and esters do not occur with just decanting.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#11 Post by larry schaffer » May 27th, 2019, 8:03 am

A few questions to begin:

What does 'slightly riper' mean? How much riper? And how many in the group felt this was the case? Everyone or . . .?

There is no doubt that leaving a wine open uneducated will 'open up' a wine compared to pop and pour. And I generally find that if you open a wine and do not decant it, but then have a glass on day 2 or 3, this is 'somewhat indicative' of how the wine may evolve over time. Do I have 'scientific data' to support this? Nope - just observation.

There are so many factors at play here that it is really challenging to come up with a finite answer. How old is the bottle we're discussing - assuming we've moved beyond the OP's specific bottles at hand? I would think that, all things considered, the younger a wine is, the more demonstrative this exercise would be. What is the pH of the wine? The level of dissolved oxygen in the wine? The current free SO2 levels of the wine?

Interesting discussion - and waiting to hear more from others . . .

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#12 Post by Scott Brunson » May 27th, 2019, 8:18 am

LMD Ermitaño wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:23 am
Claus Jeppesen wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 5:32 am
Aeration has nothing to do with maturing/cellaring
Agreed.
also agreed
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#13 Post by Chris Seiber » May 27th, 2019, 8:32 am

While I generally agree that they aren’t the same, I don’t think there is zero correlation or overlap. I think a wine which will age better and longer (eg young Ridge MB or Dunn HM, young Barolo, young BDX) will usually benefit from extended aeration and hold up for extended time after the bottle is open, as compared to an already older wine or a type of wine that won’t age and last well in the bottle.

And I’d also say that if I want to consider how new release Barolo or something is going to do, I’d rather do so based on seeing it with a long time in the decanter than on pop and pour. Not because the aerated wine will be the same as or highly similar to the mature version, but I think it will give me a better look into the wine’s future than a just-opened bottle.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#14 Post by Sh@n A » May 27th, 2019, 8:45 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:32 am
Not because the aerated wine will be the same as or highly similar to the mature version, but I think it will give me a better look into the wine’s future than a just-opened bottle.
What are you looking for then?
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#15 Post by Sh@n A » May 27th, 2019, 9:39 am

larry schaffer wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:03 am
What does 'slightly riper' mean? How much riper? And how many in the group felt this was the case? Everyone or . . .?
A specific wine in question is a 2011 Rupestris. One group tasted a 2011 after a ~10 hour slow o, and at consumption used descriptors such as "ripe", "slightly too sweet", "mono dimensional", "slightly candied". Conversely, I know others who have this vintage on pop and pour and suggested giving the bottle less air.

A more recent example of the question was someone who tried a recent vintage Chateau De La Tour Clos Vougeot VV (not I), and felt the wine increasingly showed a cola note on Day 2/Day 3, and then having concern the wine would be too ripe for his palate -- even though this a wine (I have read) that is difficult to approach young. She felt the wine may thus evolve too ripe to her palate -- which was the catalyst for starting this post.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#16 Post by lleichtman » May 27th, 2019, 12:39 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:32 am
While I generally agree that they aren’t the same, I don’t think there is zero correlation or overlap. I think a wine which will age better and longer (eg young Ridge MB or Dunn HM, young Barolo, young BDX) will usually benefit from extended aeration and hold up for extended time after the bottle is open, as compared to an already older wine or a type of wine that won’t age and last well in the bottle.

And I’d also say that if I want to consider how new release Barolo or something is going to do, I’d rather do so based on seeing it with a long time in the decanter than on pop and pour. Not because the aerated wine will be the same as or highly similar to the mature version, but I think it will give me a better look into the wine’s future than a just-opened bottle.
I respectfully disagree especially with Dunn and Montebello. We have tried the tabletop aging for both and the tannins were still so big that they were near undrinkable and a waste of an excellent wine that should just sit and wait.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#17 Post by larry schaffer » May 27th, 2019, 3:20 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 9:39 am
larry schaffer wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:03 am
What does 'slightly riper' mean? How much riper? And how many in the group felt this was the case? Everyone or . . .?
A specific wine in question is a 2011 Rupestris. One group tasted a 2011 after a ~10 hour slow o, and at consumption used descriptors such as "ripe", "slightly too sweet", "mono dimensional", "slightly candied". Conversely, I know others who have this vintage on pop and pour and suggested giving the bottle less air.

A more recent example of the question was someone who tried a recent vintage Chateau De La Tour Clos Vougeot VV (not I), and felt the wine increasingly showed a cola note on Day 2/Day 3, and then having concern the wine would be too ripe for his palate -- even though this a wine (I have read) that is difficult to approach young. She felt the wine may thus evolve too ripe to her palate -- which was the catalyst for starting this post.
Interesting. Where there any differences in the temperatures at which the wine was served on both occasions? Or the types of glasses being used? Just curious . . .

Cheers.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#18 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » May 27th, 2019, 3:37 pm

I'll chime-in re the 2011 Capellano Rupestris because I was one of the folks who banged on it hard at that tasting where it saw extended air. It struck me as noticeably oxidized ---- brown sugar, vegetal. It was also a bit bretty. But for another wine that I thought had slight TCA, it was probably my least favorite of the tasting. It was served at proper temperature, imo. I believe I used a Riedel Vinum Pinot stem, but cannot recall for sure --- I may have used a Riedel Ouverture red.

....

As for the main question here: I do not view extended aeration.as a proxy for aging.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#19 Post by larry schaffer » May 27th, 2019, 3:51 pm

Brian,

Did you try the wine prior to slow oxing? Had you had the wine before?

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#20 Post by Sh@n A » May 27th, 2019, 3:58 pm

For context at the same tasting/flight, a 2011 Bartolo was considered by (more than a few others, albeit not all) to be the worst of the flight, for exhibiting some of the sweet traits of the Cappellano. It had the same treatment. Ie, I don’t think folks considered the cappellano to be a flawed bottle, and thought perhaps the bartolo also got too much air.

But as a totally separate question, what do folks expect to discern by trying a wine on day 2 or 3? I assume ageability is only one thing folks are looking for?
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#21 Post by Robert Pavlovich » May 27th, 2019, 7:14 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:58 pm
For context at the same tasting/flight, a 2011 Bartolo was considered by (more than a few others, albeit not all) to be the worst of the flight, for exhibiting some of the sweet traits of the Cappellano. It had the same treatment. Ie, I don’t think folks considered the cappellano to be a flawed bottle, and thought perhaps the bartolo also got too much air.

But as a totally separate question, what do folks expect to discern by trying a wine on day 2 or 3? I assume ageability is only one thing folks are looking for?
As far as softening tannins and all primal elements of the wine mellowing (fruit, tannin, oak, acid, etc.) and fusing together, I've found day 2 works great. If you were to save half a bottle of a young wine overnight only to see its drinkability decline on day 2, that's not a good sign at all.

Think where people get their dander up is to try and say you can approximate aging wine, which you obviously can't - and that would blow the purpose of much of the hobby for collectors. An analogy that might get more agreement is, to give a young wine extended air is something like microwaving versus slow cooking.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#22 Post by Robert Pavlovich » May 27th, 2019, 7:16 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 9:39 am
larry schaffer wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:03 am
What does 'slightly riper' mean? How much riper? And how many in the group felt this was the case? Everyone or . . .?
A specific wine in question is a 2011 Rupestris. One group tasted a 2011 after a ~10 hour slow o, and at consumption used descriptors such as "ripe", "slightly too sweet", "mono dimensional", "slightly candied". Conversely, I know others who have this vintage on pop and pour and suggested giving the bottle less air.

A more recent example of the question was someone who tried a recent vintage Chateau De La Tour Clos Vougeot VV (not I), and felt the wine increasingly showed a cola note on Day 2/Day 3, and then having concern the wine would be too ripe for his palate -- even though this a wine (I have read) that is difficult to approach young. She felt the wine may thus evolve too ripe to her palate -- which was the catalyst for starting this post.
The cola note was always there, just became more prominent as the serving temp warmed.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#23 Post by Robert Pavlovich » May 27th, 2019, 7:29 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:37 pm
I'll chime-in re the 2011 Capellano Rupestris because I was one of the folks who banged on it hard at that tasting where it saw extended air. It struck me as noticeably oxidized ---- brown sugar, vegetal. It was also a bit bretty. But for another wine that I thought had slight TCA, it was probably my least favorite of the tasting. It was served at proper temperature, imo. I believe I used a Riedel Vinum Pinot stem, but cannot recall for sure --- I may have used a Riedel Ouverture red.

....

As for the main question here: I do not view extended aeration.as a proxy for aging.
Having the benefit of tasting most of the bottles after opening, and then after some air. The Bartolo and Cappellano were sexy off the PnP, but declined quite a bit after all that air. Counter to that, the Vietti and the (Chiara) Cannubi benefited from the air time, and one of the only ones that we actually saved a decend amount of, the Vajra was singing on day 2. I have to say in that case, the Vajra was exactly what you look for in a day 2 proxy. I'm now confident that wine will age very well.

As an aside, this night is going to live forever in Shan's mind.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#24 Post by James Billy » May 27th, 2019, 10:03 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:03 am

There is no doubt that leaving a wine open uneducated will 'open up' a wine compared to pop and pour. And I generally find that if you open a wine and do not decant it, but then have a glass on day 2 or 3, this is 'somewhat indicative' of how the wine may evolve over time. Do I have 'scientific data' to support this? Nope - just observation.
I was thinking this:
larry schaffer wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 8:03 am

The current free SO2 levels of the wine?
You beat me to it. champagne.gif

If there is little free SO2, the wine will fall over sooner (say, after one or two nights.)

If there is a good level of free SO2 the wine might keep (for example) for 3+ nights.

This could give an indication of how long the wine might keep (wrt free SO2) in the cellar, fewer days an open keeps the fewer years an unopened bottle might last.

Obviously, other factors will come into play.

The above is just a hunch, not scientifically based. It also tallies with my experience.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#25 Post by James Billy » May 27th, 2019, 10:06 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:58 pm
For context at the same tasting/flight, a 2011 Bartolo was considered by (more than a few others, albeit not all) to be the worst of the flight, for exhibiting some of the sweet traits of the Cappellano. It had the same treatment. Ie, I don’t think folks considered the cappellano to be a flawed bottle, and thought perhaps the bartolo also got too much air.

But as a totally separate question, what do folks expect to discern by trying a wine on day 2 or 3? I assume ageability is only one thing folks are looking for?
Sounds a bit like the vintage may have had to do with this. Were the other bottles from 2011?

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#26 Post by K John Joseph » May 28th, 2019, 7:12 am

Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:22 am
A few months ago there was a group that slow o’d two 2011 barolos that made them appear slightly riper at a tasting 12 hours later, leading some to declare these wines were given too much air / may not age well. Conversely some believe these wines will age just fine or even spectacularly.

And so I ask the question, how much of a proxy is giving wine extended air to forecast how a flavors of a wine will evolve with time? I imagine leaving a wine overnight would soften tannins, but I less sure how the fruit or acidity would change in such a period. Said another way, I wonder whether slow o or leaving a wine overnight is a poor proxy for aging a wine 10 years, where you may see greater changes to fruit alongside a softening of tannin?
Calling Alan! It is a 0% accurate proxy as the reactions involved with long term aging and "slow ox" are nothing alike. You'd be better off popping and pouring, and then using your experience with analysis to determine likely ability to age.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#27 Post by Anton D » May 28th, 2019, 8:18 am

I find letting a wine sit mostly ends up with oxidized flavors predominating, vs. a more complex profile that develops with aging.

I like the idea, but haven't shared others enthusiasm for letting wine sit for a few days.

I do know a guy who works at a linear accelerator facility and he says blasting wine in the linear accelerator actually does provide "instant aging." I have yet to take him up on his offer to pour these for me, so no true first hand experience.

The guy seems legit, he has made me Lichtenberg figures...

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#28 Post by Mike Grammer » May 28th, 2019, 10:27 am

oooh---*that* would truly be interesting Anton. If you ever do take him up on the offer, be sure to post!

Difficult to answer Shon, for some of the reasons Larry aptly pointed out--age of wine when opened, which wine it is, cellared conditions, etc.

I *think* that if I had to put this into words, I look to slow-ox to draw out more of what the wine can show me on the day/year I open it. I don't think I am looking to see into the future of what the wine might give me 10 or 30 years from now---I'm with John on that, where I trust more my PoP and analyze then to take a shot at ageability profile. But I do give most of the wines I drink (or try to) at least some air, my prime example being white Burgs which usually see at least a half-day's slow-ox the day before served and then 3-4 hours in a decanter on the day of. With very few exceptions, this treatment has always benefitted the wines (all of which would be 10 years old or younger).

Hope this helps, and it's a good question. I have a wine seminar coming up that I'm giving which involves a panel discussion and I think I'll add this question to the panel question list.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#29 Post by David Glasser » May 28th, 2019, 12:12 pm

I'm with the majority that says improvement after sitting open a day is not a reliable predictor of how a wine will age. It may suggest that the wine would benefit from more time in the cellar, but it doesn't tell you how much better it will get or how it will change. It's no guarantee that the additional time will make the genie emerge from the bottle. Balance and quality of acid, tannin, and fruit, and knowledge of the wine's track record for aging in prior vintages are better predictors.

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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#30 Post by Alan Rath » May 28th, 2019, 2:07 pm

Gerhard P. wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 4:45 am
On the other hand: decanting immediately without slow-oxing might cause the structure (tannin and acidity) to be sharper, less sweet ... some very young and strong wines might take it well, others will show less well after fast exposure to air.
Remember when you write things like this, people may actually read them and believe there is some actual truth to it [wow.gif]
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#31 Post by Gerhard P. » May 28th, 2019, 2:16 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
May 28th, 2019, 2:07 pm
Gerhard P. wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 4:45 am
On the other hand: decanting immediately without slow-oxing might cause the structure (tannin and acidity) to be sharper, less sweet ... some very young and strong wines might take it well, others will show less well after fast exposure to air.
Remember when you write things like this, people may actually read them and believe there is some actual truth to it [wow.gif]
I´m counting on that!
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#32 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » May 29th, 2019, 3:10 am

larry schaffer wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:51 pm
Brian,

Did you try the wine prior to slow oxing? Had you had the wine before?

Cheers.
No. And No.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#33 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » May 29th, 2019, 3:12 am

Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:58 pm
For context at the same tasting/flight, a 2011 Bartolo was considered by (more than a few others, albeit not all) to be the worst of the flight, for exhibiting some of the sweet traits of the Cappellano. It had the same treatment. Ie, I don’t think folks considered the cappellano to be a flawed bottle, and thought perhaps the bartolo also got too much air.

But as a totally separate question, what do folks expect to discern by trying a wine on day 2 or 3? I assume ageability is only one thing folks are looking for?
I thought the Bartolo presented as extremely closed, but not "bad" in the same way I found the Cappellano bad. There was a Coagna in the flight, however, that I thought "bad" in the same manner as the Cappellano, albeit to a much lesser extent.
Last edited by Brian G r a f s t r o m on May 29th, 2019, 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#34 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » May 29th, 2019, 3:14 am

Robert Pavlovich wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:14 pm
Sh@n A wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 3:58 pm
For context at the same tasting/flight, a 2011 Bartolo was considered by (more than a few others, albeit not all) to be the worst of the flight, for exhibiting some of the sweet traits of the Cappellano. It had the same treatment. Ie, I don’t think folks considered the cappellano to be a flawed bottle, and thought perhaps the bartolo also got too much air.

But as a totally separate question, what do folks expect to discern by trying a wine on day 2 or 3? I assume ageability is only one thing folks are looking for?
As far as softening tannins and all primal elements of the wine mellowing (fruit, tannin, oak, acid, etc.) and fusing together, I've found day 2 works great. If you were to save half a bottle of a young wine overnight only to see its drinkability decline on day 2, that's not a good sign at all.

Think where people get their dander up is to try and say you can approximate aging wine, which you obviously can't - and that would blow the purpose of much of the hobby for collectors. An analogy that might get more agreement is, to give a young wine extended air is something like microwaving versus slow cooking.
I agree with this 100%, and find the cooking analogy to be brilliantly spot-on.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#35 Post by Alan Rath » May 29th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 3:14 am
Robert Pavlovich wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:14 pm
Think where people get their dander up is to try and say you can approximate aging wine, which you obviously can't - and that would blow the purpose of much of the hobby for collectors. An analogy that might get more agreement is, to give a young wine extended air is something like microwaving versus slow cooking.
I agree with this 100%, and find the cooking analogy to be brilliantly spot-on.
Can I say I think it's not a good analogy at all? Because I don't believe what happens to a wine when you leave it open for a day or two is any indicator at all of how it will age. A properly aged wine sees almost no oxygen, while an open bottle is saturated with oxygen. The result should be very different.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#36 Post by GregT » May 29th, 2019, 1:14 pm

A properly aged wine sees almost no oxygen, while an open bottle is saturated with oxygen. The result should be very different.
And that's the key point that so many people seem to miss, isn't it? Especially the folks who buy those pouring aerators that are supposed to mimic aging.

What happens to a wine while it ages is NOT simple oxidation. You have molecules that don't even exist when the wine is young, and that only appear after other reactions have taken place. You have precursor reactions and then additional reactions and at some point you decide to drink the wine but the wine you're drinking couldn't possibly exist without time and chemical changes that it affords.
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#37 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » May 29th, 2019, 7:27 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 12:58 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 3:14 am
Robert Pavlovich wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:14 pm
Think where people get their dander up is to try and say you can approximate aging wine, which you obviously can't - and that would blow the purpose of much of the hobby for collectors. An analogy that might get more agreement is, to give a young wine extended air is something like microwaving versus slow cooking.
I agree with this 100%, and find the cooking analogy to be brilliantly spot-on.
Can I say I think it's not a good analogy at all? Because I don't believe what happens to a wine when you leave it open for a day or two is any indicator at all of how it will age. A properly aged wine sees almost no oxygen, while an open bottle is saturated with oxygen. The result should be very different.
Exactly. Just like how microwaving is an entirely different cooking process than slow-and-low cooking. Have you ever caramelized onions in a microwave?
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Re: Leaving wine overnight versus aging

#38 Post by Alan Rath » May 29th, 2019, 8:54 pm

I've tried, but it doesn't work too well ;) I didn't really make the connection, but I see the analogy now that I think about it. I was trying to avoid any equivalence at all between aeration and long term bottle aging, while the microwave can do a pretty decent job of cooking many foods just as well as other slower cooking methods.
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