Is it just me? Napa vs Bordeaux QPR

I’ve gone on a tasting spree, and ‘15 Bordeaux in the $50-100 absolutely slays nearly everything coming out of Napa (in any recent vintage) at a similar price point.

Am I alone?

Ha. In almost all years!

Nope. I don’t think I’ve found a single Napa cab that is comparable in quality in that price range (the straight Dunn Napa Valley maybe?) and I’ve been looking for ages. Looking forward to hearing some ideas for examples.

I think what’s even more amazing is the $25-50 price bracket from BDX. Cannot think of a single californian cabernet that I’d rather drink over something like Cantemerle for example.

No, it’s not just you. In a strong vintage (and 2015 was a strong vintage in Bordeaux) and in that price range, Bordeaux will beat almost any other cab/merlot. That is its strong suit. I can name some very good Napa cabs for under $100, but you generally need to get above $100, or even above $150, for Napa cabs to consistently hold their own against comparably-priced Bordeaux. Land prices and production volume matter. I happen to like both kinds of wine (they constitute a large portion of my cellar), but I will unhesitatingly buy $50-70 bottles of Bordeaux where I would have to look long and hard before buying something at that price from Napa.

While I don’t really feel the need to bludgeon Napa with it, Bordeaux has killer QPR in good vintages, once you get out of the collector / speculator / trophy categories.

There is so much (deservedly) 90+ point Bordeaux for under $30 and even under $20 in good vintages.

For sure the field of QPR is tilted toward Bordeaux but there are gems in Napa well under $100 and every bit as traditional in style as Bordeaux. My favorite is Frogs Leap, specifically the Estate Grown Cabernet. The 2016 is the current release. Consists of 91% Cabernet Sauvignon, 6% Cab Franc, 3% Merlot. 13.8% alcohol, very fresh profile, no jammy syrupy notes here. Loads of natural acidity to balance the fruit.
The 2016 is $65.00 at the winery, below $60.00 at some retailers. I have seen the 2015 for even less. If you care about such things (I don’t) Galloni loves it.

You may need to search but when you find a real traditionally made Cab in Napa (or California really) it can be outstanding cuz you know that the sun kissed California fruit will always be there [cheers.gif]

Tom

We sell them so take with a grain of salt, but Hess Mt. Veeder or Heitz come to mind.

I do agree that BDX is back to offering great value based on the recent run of vintages.

is there a price point where Bdx doesn’t own Napa? no jokes… and i don’t mean the $500+ category where u can argue if a scarecrow/harlan/screagle is better than a lafite/margaux…

but is there a level where Napa owns Bdx in terms of value these days? and i don’t mean outlier. i mean generally speaking…
<$50
50-100
100-200
?

Not sure I care about ownage, I just buy individual wines I like from both places. Especially if you broaden from Napa to Northern California — there are good cab and merlot wines from Santa Cruz, Sonoma, Humboldt and elsewhere.

But I agree non-trophy BDX in good vintages is a great buy.

Had 2012 Hess Mt Veeder at cousins wedding last weekend and was surprised how good it was

Becklyn cab $65
RM Cab $65

Two that spring to mind

Macdonald at $165 does not have a match in Bdx

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They are quite different, so it’s simply a matter of preferences.

Not just you. There are always specific exceptions, but Bordeaux is looking pretty good these days- and not just compared to Napa, but also to Italy, and even to Bordeaux itself. There is still a lot of 2009 and 2010 in the distribution and retail chains at prices as much as double where 2016s have come out.

There has been so much excitement, and growing dramatically as people I know taste the wines now that they are in bottle and being released, over 2016 that I am seeing activity levels like I have not seen since the 2000 vintage.

Here in Dallas for example- I happened to be at a Total Wine location the day their recent batch of 2016s arrived. They were on trolleys and not even in the system yet. Got a tasting bottle of Montrose (already had case coming on futures) and a bottle and 6 pack of Ducru. It appears each of the many stores in DFW got 2 full cases of each in addition to any concierge futures orders. Came home and told 2 friends about it- both went in the next day. One got the last 5 bottles of Ducru in the entire DFW area and had to drive a ways to collect them (and no Montrose). Other guy- nothing.

The wines evaporated in less than 24 hours. Not since the 2000s hitting Costco have I seen the like.

Meanwhile, the otherworldly 2015 Mondavi Cabernet Reserve (a must-have IMHO)- $137.50 at the winery after the standard 20% off if you just sign up on their email list- but I got 2 cases for just over $100 on closeout here in Dallas and other threads have reported 2 digit prices in some markets.

So there is definitely some opportunity in CA too if you look at wines that are being- in my opinion- excessively discounted in anticipation of a future tough market for CA Cab.

Call me a homer, but. If talking qpr I’ll take Washington all day every day!!!

Bdx. generally wipes the floor with Napa. That, combined with full-fledged acceptance of my personal preferences, is why I don’t buy Napa Cab. anymore. I do, however, still keep my eyes open for aged Napa Cabs from the '90’s from producers that aren’t “cool” — many are quite delicious, and underpriced in the market.

That’s why you can’t buy it for $165 :slight_smile:

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For my palate, I prefer Napa. But, I’m open to finding good Bordeaux values, especially under $50, where Napa does struggle more. Suggestions most definitely welcome.

Hahahah that’s true. But I actually disagree there’s no match.
Ducru? Cos? Pichon lalande? Conseilante?
Not saying it’s better than MacD but it’s in the same league no?

what would you say is some of the best in the 90-120 range, besides QC

Fully agree that Bordeaux offers much better QPR at nearly every price point. What can you get from CA for $25-$30 that is interesting? Wines like the 2018 Calon Segur, Rauzan Segla, Beychevelle, Canon, Domaine de Chevelier, etc., selling for between roughly $75 - $110. Like to see what these wines taste like in 20 years next to the super cabs people are paying $300 - $500 a bottle for. [stirthepothal.gif]