Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

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Robert Panzer
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#51 Post by Robert Panzer » August 10th, 2019, 8:27 am

Zalto universals on my end. No sediment.
I would definitely say that it is a fairly dense wine, so try following it for a longer period of time....curious to see how round two goes for you.
I'm tempted to stage a tasting with some local heads to try the '15 Cordeloux, '14 Dolium, and '13 Dolium just to get a lot of input from folks that I can report back with so that it is obvious that I am not wearing self-interested glasses.....
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#52 Post by Robert Panzer » August 10th, 2019, 8:29 am

There was a smidge of reductiveness when I first opened it, which blew off in about 15 minutes in the glass. I didn't decant it, as when I follow wines over a few days, I don't do so.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#53 Post by Robert Panzer » August 10th, 2019, 8:51 am

My front labels say "lot 1".
They may all say that.....
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#54 Post by ybarselah » August 10th, 2019, 9:46 am

No lot indication but you can easily see the original label underneath !
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#55 Post by Robert Panzer » August 10th, 2019, 10:24 am

Lot number should be near the pregnant lady....lower left.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#56 Post by Zachary Ross » August 10th, 2019, 3:47 pm

I bought one bottle from Astor Wines yesterday, Polaner import, Lot 01.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#57 Post by Robert Panzer » August 10th, 2019, 4:08 pm

Gonna take it for a test drive, Zach?
Let us know whatcha think if so...
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#58 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 4:10 pm

Do it!

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#59 Post by Robert M yers » August 10th, 2019, 4:12 pm

Somebody better before I freak out over Yaacov’s review!

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#60 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 10th, 2019, 4:15 pm

Yak-ov?

;)

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#61 Post by ybarselah » August 10th, 2019, 5:53 pm

Zachary Ross wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 3:47 pm
I bought one bottle from Astor Wines yesterday, Polaner import, Lot 01.
so are there multiple lots? the bottle i drank was from astor fyi. have a few more coming, but not as many as i thought i'd want.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#62 Post by Markus S » August 10th, 2019, 7:36 pm

ybarselah wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 6:26 am
well, cracked my first bottle of the 2015 with some excellent lamb last night and it was .... not right. opened to a perfect glistening purple color but turned garnet and mature very quickly (within an hour or so). quiet nose with almost zero discernable cote-rotie character, completely hollow mid, and bitter tannic, non-existent, finish. having had a 99 jamet the night before, the color on that wine was more vibrant than this one. and given the vintage and every other wine i've had from this vintage and appellation, this wine indicates something happened. this was procured locally a day after it arrived direct from Polaner, the NY distrib. i'll try another this week from the same batch, but my instinct at this point is that all the weirdness doesn't add up (2014 not released, was a very good vintage, and other vintages not being labeled cote-rotie).

curious if others have received their bottles and whether this is consistent.
hmmm...doesn't sound like high hopes, but also might have missed to open window already.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#63 Post by Greg K » August 10th, 2019, 7:59 pm

Now I’m somewhat tempted to open one of mine. Somewhat.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#64 Post by c fu » August 11th, 2019, 12:22 am

ybarselah wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 8:16 am
consumed over the course of 2 hours, did a quick double decant just to give it some air and sediment (only a little). served in zalto bdx stems.
I had a really similar experience that you had with 15 jamet, i did a quick double decant and drank over a hour or so. Was not enjoyable. Makes me wonder if the double decant just shut it down or something. After that for the 15s I've been trying I've been doing 5+ hour decants and they show remarkably different from when the bottle is first opened.

About ready to have Panzer overnight me a 15 to taste myself lol!
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#65 Post by Greg K » August 11th, 2019, 5:53 am

c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 12:22 am
ybarselah wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 8:16 am
consumed over the course of 2 hours, did a quick double decant just to give it some air and sediment (only a little). served in zalto bdx stems.
I had a really similar experience that you had with 15 jamet, i did a quick double decant and drank over a hour or so. Was not enjoyable. Makes me wonder if the double decant just shut it down or something. After that for the 15s I've been trying I've been doing 5+ hour decants and they show remarkably different from when the bottle is first opened.

About ready to have Panzer overnight me a 15 to taste myself lol!
Not unusual for young Jamets do be completely shut down though.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#66 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 11th, 2019, 6:05 am

Patience, grasshoppers, patience. All will be well with time. Or not.

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#67 Post by c fu » August 11th, 2019, 8:03 am

Greg K wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 5:53 am
c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 12:22 am
ybarselah wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 8:16 am
consumed over the course of 2 hours, did a quick double decant just to give it some air and sediment (only a little). served in zalto bdx stems.
I had a really similar experience that you had with 15 jamet, i did a quick double decant and drank over a hour or so. Was not enjoyable. Makes me wonder if the double decant just shut it down or something. After that for the 15s I've been trying I've been doing 5+ hour decants and they show remarkably different from when the bottle is first opened.

About ready to have Panzer overnight me a 15 to taste myself lol!
Not unusual for young Jamets do be completely shut down though.
I know. But it was more similar to yacov’s note than just a normal ungiving wine
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#68 Post by ybarselah » August 11th, 2019, 8:09 am

except for the 2013 (divorce vintage), i've never had young jamet be closed or show anything like this, especially the 2015 (both brothers' wines) and every other 2015 n rhone. i also would not characterize my bottle as closed as much as off from a variety and vintage pov.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#69 Post by Robert Panzer » August 11th, 2019, 8:14 am

I don't have doubts or fears.
I know what I taste.
Feel free to spin the web of worry, if that's your thing.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#70 Post by ybarselah » August 11th, 2019, 9:03 am

Robert Panzer wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 8:14 am
I don't have doubts or fears.
I know what I taste.
Feel free to spin the web of worry, if that's your thing.
not sure if this was aimed at me, but if so, i have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#71 Post by Robert Panzer » August 11th, 2019, 9:44 am

ybarselah wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 6:26 am
well, cracked my first bottle of the 2015 with some excellent lamb last night and it was .... not right. opened to a perfect glistening purple color but turned garnet and mature very quickly (within an hour or so). quiet nose with almost zero discernable cote-rotie character, completely hollow mid, and bitter tannic, non-existent, finish. having had a 99 jamet the night before, the color on that wine was more vibrant than this one. and given the vintage and every other wine i've had from this vintage and appellation, this wine indicates something happened. this was procured locally a day after it arrived direct from Polaner, the NY distrib. i'll try another this week from the same batch, but my instinct at this point is that all the weirdness doesn't add up (2014 not released, was a very good vintage, and other vintages not being labeled cote-rotie).

curious if others have received their bottles and whether this is consistent.
I'd say that these comments can pretty clearly be perceived as spinning some web of worry, based on your 2 hour sprint with the '15 Cordeloux, as well as pure half-informed conjecture.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#72 Post by Greg K » August 11th, 2019, 10:16 am

c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 8:03 am
Greg K wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 5:53 am
c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 12:22 am


I had a really similar experience that you had with 15 jamet, i did a quick double decant and drank over a hour or so. Was not enjoyable. Makes me wonder if the double decant just shut it down or something. After that for the 15s I've been trying I've been doing 5+ hour decants and they show remarkably different from when the bottle is first opened.

About ready to have Panzer overnight me a 15 to taste myself lol!
Not unusual for young Jamets do be completely shut down though.
I know. But it was more similar to yacov’s note than just a normal ungiving wine
Got it.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#73 Post by Greg K » August 11th, 2019, 10:19 am

c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 8:03 am
Greg K wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 5:53 am
c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 12:22 am


I had a really similar experience that you had with 15 jamet, i did a quick double decant and drank over a hour or so. Was not enjoyable. Makes me wonder if the double decant just shut it down or something. After that for the 15s I've been trying I've been doing 5+ hour decants and they show remarkably different from when the bottle is first opened.

About ready to have Panzer overnight me a 15 to taste myself lol!
Not unusual for young Jamets do be completely shut down though.
I know. But it was more similar to yacov’s note than just a normal ungiving wine
Got it.

I don’t have much experience with Benetiere. Maybe I will open one young....
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#74 Post by Zachary Ross » August 11th, 2019, 10:41 am

Not opening mine yet. I'm in the wait-and-worry camp.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#75 Post by Robert Panzer » August 11th, 2019, 10:56 am

I'd be happy to go out to eat with any of you NY cats who wants to come down my way; i'd pop some bottles so that you can form your own impressions. It would be best if we could get a small handful of people on the same page.
There's a pretty nice spot called Hearthside two blocks from my house.
We should go there.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#76 Post by jleedionne » August 11th, 2019, 11:29 am

I think it is a bit much to accuse Yaacov of having an agenda when a wine's release was delayed for a year and the wine lost it's AOC designation in the process.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#77 Post by NoahR » August 11th, 2019, 11:31 am

Haven’t had a ton of Benetiere, but I’ve had a decent amount of old NR Syrah. They -all- get substantially better after 10-15 years, and I find them either monolithic, boring, sweet/modern, zesty but taught, or otherwise early on and it seems to have no relationship to how they show after a decade...

Fear is the mind killer...
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#78 Post by c fu » August 11th, 2019, 12:23 pm

Greg K wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 10:19 am
c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 8:03 am
Greg K wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 5:53 am


Not unusual for young Jamets do be completely shut down though.
I know. But it was more similar to yacov’s note than just a normal ungiving wine
Got it.

I don’t have much experience with Benetiere. Maybe I will open one young....
Sacrifices must be made
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#79 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 11th, 2019, 12:35 pm

I approve of the sacrifice.

Of course, I would pop one of my own, but shucks, they are safely nestled away in Panzer’s nice storage facility . . . . But otherwise, I would do it in the spirit of the Board. Would not blink an eye.

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#80 Post by Robert Panzer » August 11th, 2019, 1:05 pm

jleedionne wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 11:29 am
I think it is a bit much to accuse Yaacov of having an agenda when a wine's release was delayed for a year and the wine lost it's AOC designation in the process.
I didn't accuse him of having any "agenda".
I just called him out for his own choice of words.
If there are questions about what happened with paperwork, he can find answers to those questions, not extrapolate based on his "instinct", casting vague shadowy doubt, like some kind of conspiracy theory, yet without any theory.....
I have no patience for such horseshit.
I sent him my phone number so that he could ask questions if he had any, rather than just stir the pot.
He did not try to call.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#81 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 11th, 2019, 1:42 pm

NoahR wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 11:31 am
Fear is the mind killer...
Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#82 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 11th, 2019, 1:43 pm

Looking forward to trying one of my bottles. Bring on fall shipping season!
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#83 Post by c fu » August 11th, 2019, 2:08 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 12:35 pm
I approve of the sacrifice.

Of course, I would pop one of my own, but shucks, they are safely nestled away in Panzer’s nice storage facility . . . . But otherwise, I would do it in the spirit of the Board. Would not blink an eye.
Same. If I could it’d be in the decanter already.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#84 Post by David_K » August 11th, 2019, 3:35 pm

ybarselah wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 9:46 am
No lot indication but you can easily see the original label underneath !
Ah yes, the famous Benetiere butcher cover!
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#85 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 11th, 2019, 4:18 pm

[dance-clap.gif]
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#86 Post by Greg K » August 11th, 2019, 7:30 pm

c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 12:23 pm
Greg K wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 10:19 am
c fu wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 8:03 am


I know. But it was more similar to yacov’s note than just a normal ungiving wine
Got it.

I don’t have much experience with Benetiere. Maybe I will open one young....
Sacrifices must be made
If anyone in NYC is up for it this week, I’m sure we can arrange it.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#87 Post by Jayson Cohen » August 11th, 2019, 7:45 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 1:42 pm
NoahR wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 11:31 am
Fear is the mind killer...
Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration
I will face my fear.

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#88 Post by ybarselah » August 12th, 2019, 6:51 am

I'll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

panzer, i didn't call because i'm not sure what we would discuss - so the innuendo of me not calling you isn't a thing. that said, since you mentioned it, can you please elucidate on the how and why a producer would lose AOC status for a particular wine? seems like a rather harsh result, but perhaps it's fairly typical?
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#89 Post by Markus S » August 12th, 2019, 7:10 am

ybarselah wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:51 am
I'll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.
Where's that?
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#90 Post by Greg K » August 12th, 2019, 7:13 am

ybarselah wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:51 am
I'll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

panzer, i didn't call because i'm not sure what we would discuss - so the innuendo of me not calling you isn't a thing. that said, since you mentioned it, can you please elucidate on the how and why a producer would lose AOC status for a particular wine? seems like a rather harsh result, but perhaps it's fairly typical?
Tempting.......and I believe I do know where you live! [snort.gif]
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#91 Post by Robert Panzer » August 12th, 2019, 7:27 am

I figured you had questions just like the one you just asked, or like you were vaguely implying with your "intuition".
It is a matter of staying current first and foremost with your standing/declarations with the douane (customs); if you don't, by default after a period of time, you then lose standing with the AOC.
Any wine in your cellar/winery that is not still in barrel during that phase of not-up-to-speed-with-paperwork, be it bottle or tank, of any color, is thus not allowed to wear the AOC banner.
So, when he fell behind with his declarations for the '14s and didn't straighten it all out until earlier this year, the '14, '15 and '16 vintages all fall under that bureaucratic "in the dark" period.
Since the '17s and '18s are still in barrel, they are fine to be called Côte Rôtie once bottled.
Once square with customs in the late winter/early spring, but not in the AOC club, they knew that they could have labeled the wine under Vin de France. But they wanted to see if they could get the '14-'16s back on track with the AOC.
They appealed to the AOC folks, who eventually came, inspected, and tasted the bottled wines in the late spring. The gentleman who did so found everything in order, the wines sound (fwiw, independent lab analyses are submitted with your declarations), and went back to the mothership with every intention of reinstating even the bottled/tank wines. But Pierre was at the end of it all denied, the straight line bureaucracy staying its course.
This is how Marie explained it to me.
Make sense?
Last edited by Robert Panzer on August 12th, 2019, 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#92 Post by Ramon C » August 12th, 2019, 7:28 am

Greg K wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 7:13 am
ybarselah wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 6:51 am
I'll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

panzer, i didn't call because i'm not sure what we would discuss - so the innuendo of me not calling you isn't a thing. that said, since you mentioned it, can you please elucidate on the how and why a producer would lose AOC status for a particular wine? seems like a rather harsh result, but perhaps it's fairly typical?
Tempting.......and I believe I do know where you live! [snort.gif]
Tempting, too, .... and I believe I can conveniently walk to where Yaacov lives.
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#93 Post by Robert Panzer » August 12th, 2019, 7:31 am

Drink the wine over at least two days.
You'll see.....
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#94 Post by ybarselah » August 12th, 2019, 7:41 am

Robert Panzer wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 7:31 am
Drink the wine over at least two days.
You'll see.....
thanks for the additional information, all of which much better out in the public vs a private phone conversation, wouldn't you say?

the requirement to taste a wine over 2 days to determine if it's good, however, is not a thing. it would make it obviously useless for any restaurant to stock it. or is this unique to the 2015 benetiere?
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#95 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 12th, 2019, 7:51 am

Most people in restaurants are not nearly as picky as Berserkers.
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Robert Panzer
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#96 Post by Robert Panzer » August 12th, 2019, 7:56 am

It is not a requirement to see if it is "good".
It is a recommendation to see just how good it is.
I don't think that I need to defend the reality that very young wines will show more depth and layers with time and air; i'd make the same recommendation for nearly any "serious" young wine, from anywhere.
That's like fine wine lover 101 material.
The idea that all wine needs to be pop and pour restaurant immediate gratification worthy is silly. (once upon a time, restaurants would stock wines for the longer haul.....cash flow is king, so turn and burn is the mantra, as long as you get your silly gouging markup)
And no, airing Pierre's troubles in a public forum is not better. It is TMI that doesn't respect his privacy and efforts.
I sent the info to those who had purchased the wine, as they have a vested right to know. That is an appropriate audience, IMO.
But the greater public at large doesn't need to know everything.
Your irresponsible public aspersions sort of forced the issue.
You don't seem to want to take personal accountability for anything you say, playing dumb/innocent even though you are a very smart man.
In Philly no nonsense style: grow up, or shut up.
May Gritty haunt your dreams.
(if I were more technologically savvy, i'd insert a picture of Gritty here....a little help, peanut gallery?)
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ybarselah
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#97 Post by ybarselah » August 12th, 2019, 8:04 am

Robert Panzer wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 7:56 am
It is not a requirement to see if it is "good".
It is a recommendation to see just how good it is.
I don't think that I need to defend the reality that very young wines will show more depth and layers with time and air; i'd make the same recommendation for nearly any "serious" young wine, from anywhere.
That's like fine wine lover 101 material.
The idea that all wine needs to be pop and pour restaurant immediate gratification worthy is silly. (once upon a time, restaurants would stock wines for the longer haul.....cash flow is king, so turn and burn is the mantra, as long as you get your silly gouging markup)
And no, airing Pierre's troubles in a public forum is not better. It is TMI that doesn't respect his privacy and efforts.
I sent the info to those who had purchased the wine, as they have a vested right to know. That is an appropriate audience, IMO.
But the greater public at large doesn't need to know everything.
Your irresponsible public aspersions sort of forced the issue.
You don't seem to want to take personal accountability for anything you say, playing dumb/innocent even though you are a very smart man.
In Philly no nonsense style: grow up, or shut up.
May Gritty haunt your dreams.
(if I were more technologically savvy, i'd insert a picture of Gritty here....a little help, peanut gallery?)
sorry, i don't follow this logic at all. you're arguing that the mixup is a result of bureaucratic paperwork, something that everyone can appreciate as part of our daily lives. and while very annoying, totally benign. why would those facts be better off hidden from the larger wine community? and if they are, merely asking a few questions got you to change your mind on this issue? i have purchased the wine, and previous vintages as well. to my mind, my so-called vested interest is having whatever relevant info out there for anyone that might be interested. there's no cover charge necessary to learn about wine.

btw, grew up in philly... here's gritty for yiz

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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#98 Post by Robert M yers » August 12th, 2019, 8:06 am

ybarselah wrote:
May 20th, 2019, 6:38 am
from the importer so public knowledge now... Due to an administrative oversight, 2015s and maybe 2016s will not be Cote Rotie but rather VdF. They failed to file some required paperwork, which led to a long bureaucratic nightmare. They were unable to release the wine until this was all settled. awaiting the new VdF labels. don’t anticipate seeing the wines before summer’s end.
Didn’t you guys already go over this in May 2019 [scratch.gif]

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#99 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 12th, 2019, 8:11 am

Yeah, but that requires reading page 1.

Imagine if Benetiere had dug an irrigation trench.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

Dennis Borczon
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Re: Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

#100 Post by Dennis Borczon » August 12th, 2019, 8:52 am

Don't...go...there

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