Most Underrated Bordeaux?

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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#1 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » May 15th, 2019, 9:03 pm

With 2018 discussions in full swing, curious as to opinions on the most underrated Bdx, red or white...?

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#2 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » May 16th, 2019, 5:55 am

Guess I'll jumpstart my own thread. How about Château Canon-la-Gaffelière. Consistently sub $100 wine, high CT scores, and ages well.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#3 Post by Mark Golodetz » May 16th, 2019, 6:33 am

Ok, will bite. Beychevelle, although price is creeping up, Corbin, and Giscours (since 2010). Finally La Tour de By which I buy for everyday drinking
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#4 Post by Julian Marshall » May 16th, 2019, 6:40 am

For me, it would have to be Lagrange (St.J), still at the same price since 1996, or thereabouts.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#5 Post by Victor Hong » May 16th, 2019, 6:42 am

Let me hoard some, before saying so. neener
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#6 Post by Eric Egan » May 16th, 2019, 6:49 am

Poujeaux perhaps? Amazing quality for the price.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#7 Post by Pat Martin » May 16th, 2019, 7:46 am

Hard for me to call a $100 wine underrated.

To my mind, Parker serially underrated Magdelaine and, to a lesser degree, Canon. But that ship has sailed.

For claret underrated today, I’d put Corbin on the list, I’d add Gloria whose quality still exceeds its price, sounds like BAMA might be a candidate though I’ve yet to try it.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#8 Post by Neal.Mollen » May 16th, 2019, 7:59 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 6:33 am
Ok, will bite. Beychevelle, although price is creeping up, Corbin, and Giscours (since 2010). Finally La Tour de By which I buy for everyday drinking
Hmmm. I agree with everything but Beychevelle but I think that one ceased being a bargain some time ago. I can still find the 80s vintages under $100 sometimes and like them very much but in recent vintages it has been a $100+ wine
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#9 Post by Jud Reis » May 16th, 2019, 8:02 am

Talbot, although don’t love it quite as much as the old Cordier days....

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#10 Post by Todd F r e n c h » May 16th, 2019, 8:04 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 6:40 am
For me, it would have to be Lagrange (St.J), still at the same price since 1996, or thereabouts.
Agreed.

On the lower end, I find Capbern to often outperform its price point
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#11 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » May 16th, 2019, 8:12 am

Jud Reis wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 8:02 am
Talbot, although don’t love it quite as much as the old Cordier days....
This.

Denny has found a stash of older BDX in Florida with amazing provenance and storage. He has been buying multiple 80s vintages of Talbot (Gruaud Larose and Lynch Bages as well) and all have been stunning.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#12 Post by LMD Ermitaño » May 16th, 2019, 9:13 am

Top of mind is Haut-Bailly (though I haven’t their vintages past ‘06 or ‘07). Agree with others that Corbin & Giscours qualify. The few bottles of ‘96 Giscours I’ve had over the past year certainly performed very well for their moderate price.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#13 Post by Ian Dorin » May 16th, 2019, 9:57 am

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 8:04 am
On the lower end, I find Capbern to often outperform its price point

+1
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#14 Post by Thomas Keim » May 16th, 2019, 10:01 am

Just about every good property under the 'Medoc' appellation.

To name a few -

Chateau Potensac
Chateau Saint-Bonnet
Chateau La Tour de by
Chateau La Tour-Saint-Bonnet
Chateau Livran
Chateau Greysac
Chateau Loudenne
Chateau Sigognac
Chateau Patache-d'Aux

And on the Right Bank - too many to mention, but my favorite value;

Chateau Rocher Corbin - Montagne Saint Emilion
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#15 Post by YLee » May 16th, 2019, 10:22 am

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#16 Post by Dav1d S@wyer » May 16th, 2019, 10:52 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 6:40 am
For me, it would have to be Lagrange (St.J), still at the same price since 1996, or thereabouts.
Yep. Had the 2010 recently and was blown away for that price.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#17 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » May 16th, 2019, 11:28 am

I'm struggling to resolve an internal dispute regarding underrated vs. underpriced. And, then, underrated by whom? If underpriced, is that w/r/t other Bdx. or w/r/t the entire world of wine?

Without the benefit of answers to those questions, I'd nominate Cantemerle.

Depending on answers to those questions, I might add Leoville Barton, Domaine de Chevalier, Grand Puy Lacoste, Rauzan Segla, Haut Bailly, and Pichon Baron.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#18 Post by Henry Kiichli » May 16th, 2019, 11:37 am

Lanessan

Caronne Sainte Gemme

Agree LaTour de By
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#19 Post by Howard Cooper » May 16th, 2019, 1:16 pm

On this board, based on prior threads, Leoville las Cases.

More generally, maybe Grand Puy Lacoste among classified Bordeaux.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#20 Post by David Schliecker » May 16th, 2019, 1:34 pm

Another vote for Lagrange.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#21 Post by Pat Martin » May 16th, 2019, 3:25 pm

Yes, Cantemerle for sure, and Lagune as well.

Plus:
du Tertre
Carbonnieux (the white especially but the red can be very good too)
Boyd Cantenac
Chauvin
Grand Mayne (but style has shifted dramatically, and for the worse in my book, since 2000)
Dominique (but style has shifted dramatically, and for the worse in my book, since 2000)
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#22 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 16th, 2019, 3:45 pm

Grand Puy Lacoste
D’Armailhac
Sociando Mallet
Gloria

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#23 Post by T. Williams » May 16th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Did I beat Alfert to Sociando Mallet?

Also I’m a fan of Cantemerle, but haven’t seen the best performance post 2005 from this house.


Edit never mind. He types too quickly [truce.gif]
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#24 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 16th, 2019, 3:55 pm

#winning

Notice I put it Third so that I’m not as much of a broken record as I think I am, lol.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#25 Post by T. Williams » May 16th, 2019, 4:03 pm

For the record. You may be the reason why I have a case of 80’s and 90’s Sociando getting delivered tomorrow.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#26 Post by Jim Stewart » May 16th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 3:55 pm
#winning

Notice I put it Third so that I’m not as much of a broken record as I think I am, lol.
you are more of a "Pied Piper" . . .

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#27 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 16th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Ha, consider me jealous. And flattered. Beware I have a yak palate.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#28 Post by T. Williams » May 16th, 2019, 4:11 pm

I’m cautiously optimistic, you didn’t do yourself any favors with the Gonon tasting note earlier! I’ve heard that northern Rhône plonk is perfect yak fodor.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#29 Post by Mar3 Koslowsky » May 16th, 2019, 4:29 pm

+1 on Chevalier

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#30 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » May 16th, 2019, 5:27 pm

I stopped buying super seconds et al after 2004, and since 2009 have been snagging wines in the $20-40 range (Bottom feeding as far as the population of this board goes.) Lanessan, often below this range, is obvious. Poujeaux has been inconsistent - I find 2009 anonymous and the 2010 quite nice. I love the savoriness and umame of 2009 Larrivet Haut Brion but haven't explored any others. Looking into 2016 Cantmerle thanks to the constant drum beat of a certain Florida hick lawyer yak palate. Will probably backfill and taste some older vintages before plunging in more. And taking a flyer on 2014 Brown as NM's tasting note mentions the savory notes, which I loved in the 2009 LHB above.
I did buy some 2014 Giscours, but that was at the right price of 39.99. I'm trying to avoid wines that may need more than 10-15 years of cellaring at this point, and Giscours probably will need a little more.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#31 Post by Arv R » May 18th, 2019, 5:34 pm

I'd vote for Cantemerle, even their label is calm and avoids flashiness.

btw, their 1983 is still drinking great

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#32 Post by YLee » May 18th, 2019, 7:15 pm

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#33 Post by Kris Patten » May 18th, 2019, 7:50 pm

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#34 Post by Brian Lynch » May 18th, 2019, 7:59 pm

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#35 Post by Howard Cooper » May 19th, 2019, 4:58 am

Can a wine like Cantemerle or Sociando Mallet be underrated if most people on this thread think they are underrated? They can be good, they can be values, but can they be underrated?
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#36 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 19th, 2019, 5:03 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
May 19th, 2019, 4:58 am
Can a wine like Cantemerle or Sociando Mallet be underrated if most people on this thread think they are underrated? They can be good, they can be values, but can they be underrated?
I would say yes, relative to the market as a whole. Very few of my friends know of Sociando and Cantemerle. I think you could even make the claim on most wine boards. There are a couple handful of folks who tout them, but do they really get the play like other Classified Growths or trendy St Ems? They are mostly highlighted for their value, rather than how excellent they can be irrespective of price considerations. I’m ok with that, keeps prices low.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#37 Post by Howard Cooper » May 19th, 2019, 5:05 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
May 19th, 2019, 5:03 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
May 19th, 2019, 4:58 am
Can a wine like Cantemerle or Sociando Mallet be underrated if most people on this thread think they are underrated? They can be good, they can be values, but can they be underrated?
I would say yes, relative to the market as a whole. Very few of my friends know of Sociando and Cantemerle. I think you could even make the claim on most wine boards. There are a couple handful of folks who tout them, but do they really get the play like other Classified Growths or trendy St Ems? They are mostly highlighted for their value, rather than how excellent they can be irrespective of price considerations. I’m ok with that, keeps prices low.
Other than my wine geek friends, I doubt any of my friends have ever heard of Ausone or Cheval Blanc - even friends who drink a decent amount of wine. But, they have heard of Silver Oak.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#38 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » May 19th, 2019, 6:56 am

Arv R wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 5:34 pm
I'd vote for Cantemerle, even their label is calm and avoids flashiness.

btw, their 1983 is still drinking great

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Any thoughts on 2015 vs 2016?

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#39 Post by craig v » May 19th, 2019, 8:46 am

Older btls at retailers who do auctions. I'm 63 and love finding random btl from 1996 and back from retailers and Envoyer. Unless, you buying the top 5-10 producers like LaMish, there are amazing 15yr old+nearly ready to fully ready to drink values to be had often for less than release of the big names. Old Leoville Bartons can be had for easily less than $200. Lagrange is very cheap if you like the richness of the style.
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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#40 Post by Kelly Flynn » May 21st, 2019, 12:29 pm

I don't follow ratings, so I will define "underrated" as "relative value in the marketplace IMHO". Some of these are downright cheap, others not so much, but I believe they all punch above their weight. I know some of these have been mentioned already.

2nd: Gruaud Larose
3rd: Calon Segur
4th: Beychevelle
5th: Cantemerle
St E: La Tour Figeac
Graves: Olivier
Pomerol: Le Gay
Haut Medoc: Sociando Mallet (needless to say); runner up: Chasse Spleen

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#41 Post by Jay $$ Winton » May 21st, 2019, 12:40 pm

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#42 Post by PCLIN » May 21st, 2019, 12:42 pm

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#43 Post by Joe G a l e w s k i » May 21st, 2019, 3:47 pm

Julian Marshall wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 6:40 am
For me, it would have to be Lagrange (St.J), still at the same price since 1996, or thereabouts.
I have much respect for Chateau Lagrange. I buy 6-12 bottles in every decent year. They just need time.

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#44 Post by James Billy » May 21st, 2019, 6:25 pm

Phelan Segur gets high scores on CT, but I don't think anyone mentioned it here. Why is that? TIA!

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Re: Most Underrated Bordeaux?

#45 Post by Vince T » May 22nd, 2019, 8:08 am

craig v wrote:
May 19th, 2019, 8:46 am
Older btls at retailers who do auctions. I'm 63 and love finding random btl from 1996 and back from retailers and Envoyer. Unless, you buying the top 5-10 producers like LaMish, there are amazing 15yr old+nearly ready to fully ready to drink values to be had often for less than release of the big names. Old Leoville Bartons can be had for easily less than $200. Lagrange is very cheap if you like the richness of the style.
+1, especially in underappreciated vintages. Just picked up some '94 L'evangile for <$80 per.

I'd also call out Rauzan Segla as underappreciated.
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