TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

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TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#1 Post by TomHill » May 13th, 2019, 8:23 am

We tasted tonight (4/24/19) Mostly Bedrock Zins:
1. Onward MalvasiaBianca CappInnRanch/SuisunVlly (12.8%; tank frmtd/sur lie aged; weed control by wild pigs;
www.OnwardWines.com) FaithArmstrongFoster/Sonoma 2015
: Pale yellow color; very fragrant/perfumed floral/
Malvasia/bit muscatty/cherry blossom/cheap hair oil very aromatic nose; totally dry quite tart/tangy/slight
metallic slightly bitter strong aromatic/Malvasia/bit muscatty/cherry blossom flavor; very long quite tart/
tangy totally dry slightly bitter strong Malvasia/muscatty/cheap hair oil/cherry blossom finish; speaks
strongly of aromatic Malvasia; totally dry and comes off a bit on the austere side but a lovely rendition
of Malvasia. $20.00
____________________
2. Onward MalvasiaBianca SkinFrmtd CappInnRanch/SuisunVlly (12.8%; hand punch downs) 2015: Med.gold color; some
Malvasia/floral/muscatty/aromatic/bit appley some skin-contact/phenolic/resiny slight earthy some complex
nose; fairly tart/tangy quite dry bit austere bit richer/lusher light Malvasia/apple blossom/floral some
phenolic/resiny/skin-contact very slight tannic flavor; very long Malvasia/floral light phenolic/skin-contact/
resiny finish w/ light tannic bite; quite a nice balance of Malvasia aromatics and phenolic/resiny character.
$26.00
____________________
3. Farmstrong FieldWhite SuisunVlly (13.4%; 23 brls; GrenacheBlanc/Albarino/Verdelho;
www.FarmstrongVineyards.com) 2015
: Pale yellow color; very fragrant floral/honeysuckle/gardenias/spicy light
earthy quite lovely aromatic nose; lightly tart bit rich/lush very strong floral/honeysuckle/gardenia slight
metallic/tangy bit earthy flavor; very long/lingering quite floral/gardenias/honeysuckle slight earthy bit
rich/lush finish; quite a lovely/pretty/aromatic white blend at a great pric. $22.00
____________________
4. Once&Future Zin BedrockVnyd/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (126 yr old vines; Pckd: 9/2/2014; 30% new Fr.oak;
13.77%; 200 cs; pH: 3.51, TA: 0.58) 2014
: Very dark color; very strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy some dusty/OV
light pencilly/oak/toasty very perfumed bit complex nose; bit tart/tangy some earthy/dusty/OV strong
blackberry/Zin/very spicy light pencilly/oak some complex flavor w/ light bit drying tannins; very long quite
dusty/OV strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy light toasty/pencilly/oak some complex finish w/ light bit drying/
astringent tannins; still going strong & developed a nice complexity but drying out a bit on the palate;
probably best to drink up whilst loads of fruit are there. $40.00
____________________
5. Turley Zin BedrockVnyd/SonomaVlly (15.8%; www.TurleyWineCellars.com) StHelena 2017: Very dark color; some
alcoholic/fumey strong blackberry/Zin/spicy/high-toned rather fruit-bomb some toasty/oak quite fragrant
attractive nose; bit soft rather hot/fumey/alcoholic very strong/blackberry/Zin slightly bitter some toasty/oak
huge fruit flavor w/ light ripe tannins; very long strong blackberry/Zin/big fruit rather hot/fumey/alcoholic
some toasty/oak finish w/ modest ripe tannins; lots of huge fruit but a bit fumey/alcoholic. $43.50
____________________
6. Bedrock TheBedrockHeritage/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty RW (14.6%; 129 yr old vines plntd in 1888; 19 different
varieties; 50% Zin/20% Carignane/4% Mataro/everything else) 2015
: Very dark near black color; beautiful/fragrant
very spicy/blackberry/Zin/black cherry/DrPepper quite dusty/OV rather complex nose; lightly tart/tangy very
strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy light pencilly/oak quite dusty/OV lovely flavor w/ modest crunchy tannins;
very long/lingering very strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy/DrPepper quite dusty/OV light pencilly/oak slight
earthy finish w/ some chewey tannins; needs more age and should go out 10 yrs; more focused & classic Bedrock
than the Carlisle; a beautiful expression of Bedrock Zin. $39.65
____________________
7. Carlisle Zin BedrockVnyd/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (15.4%; Plntd: 1888; + Mourv/PS/AlicanteBouschet; 335 cs)
2015
: Very dark color; very slight alcoholic very strong blackberry/boysenberry/Zin/ripe/very spicy some
toasty/smokey/oak bit earthy more complex slight rustic/sauvage beautiful nose; bit soft very strong blackberry/
boysenberry/Zin/ripe/very spicy some toasty/oak bit rustic/earthy bit more interesting flavor w/ modest ripe
bit bitey tannins; very long/lingering very strong blackberry/Zin/ripe/boysenberry/very spicy bit dusty/OV
bit rustic/earthy finish w/ modest ripe tannins; carries the alcohol well; a bit more rustic & more oak but
a bit more complex; beautiful Zin that'll go more yrs. $45.20
____________________
8. Bedrock TheBedrockHeritage/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty RW (14.6%; 129 yr old vines plntd in 1888; 19 different
varieties; 40% new Fr.oak; 27 varieties; 50% Zin/20% Carignane/4% Mataro/everything else) 2016
: Very dark color;
lovely very strong blackberry/boysenberry/Zin/very spicy rather dusty/OV slight DrPepper/RCCola light pencilly/
oak bit complex nose; rather tart/tangy very strong blackberry/boysenberry/Zin/DrPepper/bit peppery/very spicy
quite dusty/OV very focused some complex flavor w/ some tangy/crunchy tannins; very long/lingering very focused
very strong blackberry/boysenberry/Zin/quite spicy/bit DrPepper quite dusty/OV bit peppery slight pencilly/oak
finish w/ some chewey tannins; can use another 4-8 yrs yet; more intense & the best of the Bedrocks thus far;
beautiful classic SonomaVlly Zin. $39.65
____________________
9. Bedrock Beduccini BedrockVnyd library block + Puccini Vnyd SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty RW (14.0%;
100% w-c frmt; Frmtd: 1 ton open-top Stockinger tank; 1 brl/600 btls) 2016
: Very dark/near black color; some
blackberry/Zin/spicy strong peppery/black pepper/w-c/bit Rhonish fairly complex nose; quite tart/tangy strong
w-c/peppery/Rhonish blackberry/very spicy/Zin rather rustic complex flavor w/ ample rough/grippy/crunchy
tannins; very long/lingering strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy strong w-c/peppery/Rhonish/smokey bit rough/rustic
rather complex finish w/ ample crunchy tannins; this is how they'd make Zin in the NRhone if they could; rather
hard & angular for a Bedrock w/o the complex lush fruit of the Zins; dominated by the w-c character and rather
atypical Bedrock but an interesting wine that needs age; interesting to see how this evolves. $39.00
____________________
10. Carlisle Zin BedrockVnyd/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (15.0%; Plntd: 1888; + Mourv/PS/AlicanteBouschet; 300 cs)
2016
: Med.dark color; beautiful complex strong smokey/toasty/oak very strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy quite
dusty/OV rather complex nose; bit tart/tangy quite dusty/OV intense blackberry/Zin/very spicy/slight herbal/thyme
some toasty/smokey/Fr.oak fairly complex flavor w/ modest ripe tannins; very long/lingering quite dusty/OV
intense blackberry/ripe/Zin/very spicy bit herbal/thyme some toasty/oak lightly tart fairly complex finish
w/some ripe tannins; alcohol not at all obvious; a beautiful expression of Bedrock Zin that needs more age.
$39.50
____________________
11. Once&Future Zin BedrockVnyd/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (128 yr old vines; 30% new Fr.oak; 14.7%; 250 cs;
bttld Nov 2017; Grower: Morgan Twain-Peterson) 2016
: Very dark color; bit more subdued/restrained more pure Zin/
focused intense blackberry/Zin/very spicy some dusty/OV some toasty/charred/oak rather complex beautiful nose;
somewhat tart very strong blackberry/Zin/very spicy quite structured some dusty/OV some toasty/Fr.oak rather
complex flavor w/ ample firm/ripe tannins; very long/lingering some dusty/OV very strong blackberry/very spicy
Zin/slight peppery some toasty/charred/Fr.oak quite structured complex finish w/ ample ripe/firm tannins;
not as much intense Zin fruit as the Carlisle but more focused & pure Zin fruit; very/very structured for the
long haul; terrific expression of Bedrock that needs more age. $42.00
____________________
12. Bedrock BedrockHeritage SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty RW (14.6%; Plntd: 1888; 19 different varieties; Aged:
40% new Fr.oak; 55% Zin/15% carignane/10% Mataro + others; Drk: 2019-2030+: MTP) 2017
: Very dark/near black
color; very spicy very intense blackberry/Zin/slight herbal/peppery light toasty/oak rather complex nose;
fairly tart very strong blackberry/ripe/very spicy bit licorice/herbal/leaf pile strong dusty/OV light toasty/oak
some complex flavor w/ some crunchy tannins; very long/lingering intense blackberry/Zin/very spicy slight herbal/
peppery/licorice finish w/ ample tannins; needs more age; bit softer/rounder more pure Zin more intense than the
O&F '17; a beautiful BedrockBedrock. $39.00
____________________
13. Once&Future Zin BedrockVnyd/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (14.6%; 226 cs; 129 yr.old vines; Pckd: 8/31/17;
100% Fr.oak/30% new; pH: 3.67, TA: 0.61%) 2017
: Very dark/near black color; less intense more subtle/restrained
strong peppery/blackberry/very spicy fairly strong toasty/oak more complex beautiful nose; more structured more
complex strong peppery/blackberry/Zin/quite spicy some dusty/OV flavor w/ ample crunchy/firm/ripe tannins;
very long/lingering strong blackberry/very spicy Zin/ripe/bit peppery fairly strong toasty/oak quite structured
finish w/ ample firm tannins; reminds a lot of te old Ravenswood OldHill Zins; terrific Zin that needs age.
$42.00
________________________________________________________________________________
More pibblesnecker from TheBloodyPulpit:
1. Onward/Farmstrong is the wnry of Faith Armstrong Foster. The Onward label focuses on site-driven vnyds that she
respects. The Farmstrong label is for her various blends. I first became interested in her wines from the
skin-contact Malvasia, a genre of Malvasia I'd not seen before. She's doing a particularly good job w/ Malvasia
and I was impressed by all three of these wines.
____________________
2. Bedrock/Carlisle/O&F: So who makes the best expression of Bedrock vnyd Zin?? I'm not gonna touch that one. Of all
these BedrockVnyd Zins, the Carlisle '16 was my favorite based on my scores. But, save for the Turley, they were
all exceptional. And the Turley weren't too shabby in its own right. For the SonomaVlly/Valley of the Moon, clearly
the Bedrock, the OldHill, and the Pagani vnyds tower above the rest. The Pagani is sort of an outlier because of
the cepage of varieties it contains. The OldHill & the Bedrock are pretty much neck & neck, though I'd give the
edge to the Bedrock. Perhaps because there are not that many Zins made from OldHill.
Mostly, the subtle differences are a reflection of the winemaking style. The Carlisles tend to be more alcoholic,
but they almost always carry their alcohols well and seldom seem hot/fumey to me. They seem to have a greater
intensity of fruit. The O&F seem to have a more pure/focused expression of Zin fruit and a stronger oak character.
The signature character of the O&F Zins are the structure they show...you just know they're going to make great
old bones. Though the tannins are not remarkably strong or hard than the Carlisle/Bedrock's. And the Bedrocks??
Well...they seem to lie somewhere in the middle..which is not to say they are anything of a lesser wine. Not as
much oak, a bit more polished tannins, perhaps a bit more balanced & restrained.
Put another way: Carlisle=Wagner/O&F=Beethoven/Bedrock=Brahms might sum it up.
And not included in this discussion is the Ridge HookerCreek Zin from BedrockVnyd. To me, the Ridge signature
winemaking style tends to sublimate the vnyd origins. They usually shout Ridge Zin, but you have to search a bit
deeper to find/guess the vnyd origins. So Ridge=Strauss/Turley=PhillipGlass.
With all these Bedrock vnyd Zins, you would think the BedrockVnyd signature would jump out at you. Hah...in
your dreams. There is nothing in these wines that shout to me "Bedrock Vnyd"...that terroir thing that all the
wine geeks babble endlessly about. If there is anything about the Bedrock terroir, it would probably be the
spiciness that I found. But it's a spiciness that I would not say is unique and not found in a lot of other OV
Sonoma vnyds...not distinct from the spiciness of OldHill or LimerickLane. Given a set of Carlisle/Bedrock Zins
served blind, I'd be hard pressed to pick ot the ones from Bedrock Vnyd. Maybe Monktown attourneys can manage
that feat...but not me. I suspect Mike or Morgan or Joel could do it..but certainly not me.
Of all these Bedrock vnyd Zins, the Carlisle '16 was my favorite, but only by a small edge. The O&F '14 was
showing a bit of age and the Turley was my least favorite, but not by much. Pretty much all outstanding Zins.
Tom

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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#2 Post by Brian Gilp » May 13th, 2019, 9:19 am

I have really liked some of the Wilde Farm Bedrock. Seems maybe a litttle more bottle variation or just changes with time but when they are on they can be really nice.

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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#3 Post by Steve Gautier » May 13th, 2019, 9:20 am

Thanks for this in depth look. I was surprised that the 2014 Once & Future was showing age and you are suggesting to drink up. Seems to be different from what I am hearing and reading from others. May have to take a look at one of mine.
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Yeah....

#4 Post by TomHill » May 13th, 2019, 9:29 am

Steve Gautier wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 9:20 am
Thanks for this in depth look. I was surprised that the 2014 Once & Future was showing age and you are suggesting to drink up. Seems to be different from what I am hearing and reading from others. May have to take a look at one of mine.
Yeah, Steve.....I was a bit surprised that it was showing a bit of age. There's still plenty of fruit there, but the tannins
just seemed a bit on the astringent side and not smoothing out much. Maybe it's just transitioning to a lovely "old bones"
stage. Don't know. But I tend to like those Zins when they are loaded w/ fruit & don't mind the youthful tannins.
But you gotta trust that Joel knows what he's doing. Has a bit of a track record, doesn't he??
Tom

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Re: Yeah....

#5 Post by Steve Gautier » May 13th, 2019, 9:35 am

TomHill wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 9:29 am
Steve Gautier wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 9:20 am
Thanks for this in depth look. I was surprised that the 2014 Once & Future was showing age and you are suggesting to drink up. Seems to be different from what I am hearing and reading from others. May have to take a look at one of mine.
Yeah, Steve.....I was a bit surprised that it was showing a bit of age. There's still plenty of fruit there, but the tannins
just seemed a bit on the astringent side and not smoothing out much. Maybe it's just transitioning to a lovely "old bones"
stage. Don't know. But I tend to like those Zins when they are loaded w/ fruit & don't mind the youthful tannins.
But you gotta trust that Joel knows what he's doing. Has a bit of a track record, doesn't he??
Tom
How true. Just a "bit" of a track record.
Good wine is a necessity of life. - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#6 Post by John Morris » May 13th, 2019, 10:05 am

I greatly enjoyed a bottle of the 2014 Bedrock Evangelho Vineyard Heritage last night. I don't know what the proportion of zin is, but this was just such a pleasure. Packed with chewy fruit, but nice structure -- some tannin and acid -- so it was fresh. It tasted like it could have some of the Evangelho mataro. Marked at 14.1%.
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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#7 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » May 13th, 2019, 10:14 am

John Morris wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 10:05 am
I greatly enjoyed a bottle of the 2014 Bedrock Evangelho Vineyard Heritage last night. I don't know what the proportion of zin is, but this was just such a pleasure. Packed with chewy fruit, but nice structure -- some tannin and acid -- so it was fresh. It tasted like it could have some of the Evangelho mataro. Marked at 14.1%.
On a general level that sounds like an Evangelho. Whenever I have a wine from that site I tend to find the fruit "sappy." Combined with the acid/tannin balance I think we end up with the same end result.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#8 Post by John Morris » May 13th, 2019, 12:34 pm

I'm sure you're right. The sandy soil and very old, ungrafted vines are distinctive. And I'd guess that there are a bunch of non-zin grapes in there that contribute to its character.
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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#9 Post by AD Northup » May 13th, 2019, 2:23 pm

Has anyone tasted a Fog Monster Bedrock? Sitting on a few 2014’s, but no CT details leaves me guessing.
A n d r e w N o r t h u p

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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#10 Post by fred o. » May 14th, 2019, 4:40 am

Mostly, the subtle differences are a reflection of the winemaking style. The Carlisles tend to be more alcoholic,
but they almost always carry their alcohols well and seldom seem hot/fumey to me. They seem to have a greater
intensity of fruit. The O&F seem to have a more pure/focused expression of Zin fruit and a stronger oak character.
The signature character of the O&F Zins are the structure they show...you just know they're going to make great
old bones. Though the tannins are not remarkably strong or hard than the Carlisle/Bedrock's. And the Bedrocks??
Well...they seem to lie somewhere in the middle..which is not to say they are anything of a lesser wine. Not as
much oak, a bit more polished tannins, perhaps a bit more balanced & restrained.
Put another way: Carlisle=Wagner/O&F=Beethoven/Bedrock=Brahms might sum it up...
deeper to find/guess the vnyd origins. So Ridge=Strauss/Turley=PhilipGlass

Tom, very interesting analogy, and a very fun one to debate.

I haven’t had much Once and Future, so I can’t say whether your description of the winemaking style is accurate IMO, but taking your description at face value, I have to disagree with your comparison to Beethoven. Beethoven to me is sui generis given his profound evolution as a composer from Mozart/Haydn influences in his early period to more Romantic music in his middle and then the absolutely wild, earth shattering modernness of his late music. Hard for me to agree with any simple characterization of his music, so I’d disagree if you’re saying that Beethoven’s most singular characteristic is structure/making old bones. I’d argue that Bach is more apt given the timeless elegance of his music and the almost mathematic beauty of his music’s structure.

For Carlisle, I’d argue Tchaikovsky is more apt — lush, beautifully melodic in its depth of aromas and flavors yet still with a classic structure, and a brooding nature underneath.

For Bedrock — not sure I’d characterize Brahms as balanced/restrained, there’s an unbridled passionate element to his music that you can see in pieces like his Hungarian rhapsody, the violin concerto, the piano quartets. Instead, I’d argue Mendelssohn is a better fit. Child prodigy much like MTP was, and with an interest in the history of his field (e.g., reviving Bach’s music), respect for different styles/areas (the Hebrides overture, Italian symphony, etc), and an overriding sense of balance to his music.

For the Ridge-Strauss — not sure if you’re referring to Johann or Richard, but I disagree either way.

Turley as Philip Glass — also can’t see that. I get a more coolly intellectual vibe from Glass, and a relentlessly modern/probing attitude. Schubert seems more appropriate, profuse in emotion and intensity...
0k

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Sorry....

#11 Post by TomHill » May 14th, 2019, 5:18 am

fred o. wrote:
May 14th, 2019, 4:40 am
Mostly, the subtle differences are a reflection of the winemaking style. The Carlisles tend to be more alcoholic,
but they almost always carry their alcohols well and seldom seem hot/fumey to me. They seem to have a greater
intensity of fruit. The O&F seem to have a more pure/focused expression of Zin fruit and a stronger oak character.
The signature character of the O&F Zins are the structure they show...you just know they're going to make great
old bones. Though the tannins are not remarkably strong or hard than the Carlisle/Bedrock's. And the Bedrocks??
Well...they seem to lie somewhere in the middle..which is not to say they are anything of a lesser wine. Not as
much oak, a bit more polished tannins, perhaps a bit more balanced & restrained.
Put another way: Carlisle=Wagner/O&F=Beethoven/Bedrock=Brahms might sum it up...
deeper to find/guess the vnyd origins. So Ridge=Strauss/Turley=PhilipGlass

Tom, very interesting analogy, and a very fun one to debate.

I haven’t had much Once and Future, so I can’t say whether your description of the winemaking style is accurate IMO, but taking your description at face value, I have to disagree with your comparison to Beethoven. Beethoven to me is sui generis given his profound evolution as a composer from Mozart/Haydn influences in his early period to more Romantic music in his middle and then the absolutely wild, earth shattering modernness of his late music. Hard for me to agree with any simple characterization of his music, so I’d disagree if you’re saying that Beethoven’s most singular characteristic is structure/making old bones. I’d argue that Bach is more apt given the timeless elegance of his music and the almost mathematic beauty of his music’s structure.

For Carlisle, I’d argue Tchaikovsky is more apt — lush, beautifully melodic in its depth of aromas and flavors yet still with a classic structure, and a brooding nature underneath.

For Bedrock — not sure I’d characterize Brahms as balanced/restrained, there’s an unbridled passionate element to his music that you can see in pieces like his Hungarian rhapsody, the violin concerto, the piano quartets. Instead, I’d argue Mendelssohn is a better fit. Child prodigy much like MTP was, and with an interest in the history of his field (e.g., reviving Bach’s music), respect for different styles/areas (the Hebrides overture, Italian symphony, etc), and an overriding sense of balance to his music.

For the Ridge-Strauss — not sure if you’re referring to Johann or Richard, but I disagree either way.

Turley as Philip Glass — also can’t see that. I get a more coolly intellectual vibe from Glass, and a relentlessly modern/probing attitude. Schubert seems more appropriate, profuse in emotion and intensity...
Sorry, Fred.....way out of my element here when talking music. So I'll yield to your superior knowledge.
But let's try again:
Carlisle=Shaq O'Neal; Bedrock=Bill Russell; O&F=Michael Jordan; Ridge=Larry Bird; Turley=Fenster Prufrock.
Does that work better?? [snort.gif]
Tom

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Re: TN: Some Bedrock Vnyd Zins...(long/boring)

#12 Post by ncostanzo1 » May 17th, 2019, 10:45 pm

Thanks for the notes Tom. I allllllmost opened the 2015 Bedrock Heritage but decided to hold back on it. Instead went with a 2015 Bedrock Monte Rosso. I can say I was not disappointed and look forward to the next bottle in a couple years.
Nick

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