Is Sake the closest thing to wine that doesn't have grapes in it?

We celebrated a friend’s birthday last night. Someone brought a very bright/crisp/clean/melon-flavored sake. Melon notes were perceived by me, not added to the sake. This style, for me, almost shares a similar flavor profile of certain dry, white wines. Out of my mind, or an apt comparison? Also, mods, feel free to move this to another thread if it’s not wine-centric enough for Wine Talk. TIA.

To save someone the explanation time, I’m well-aware sake is “rice wine” just as there are “wines” made from various other fruits besides grapes.

I’m not an expert, but I’ve had sake in a wide range from essentially wine-like (dry, lower alcohol, crisp white) to almost spirit-like (intense, slight alcohol burn, sippable but not gulpable). It can even be made sparkling!

Sake is amazing. I do believe one can taste many perceptions across myriad styles, as one does in wine.

Craft cider, I think. Sake, while brilliant and endlessly varied, is entirely reliant on process in a way wine isn’t and has traditions that don’t really track with (grape) wine traditions. Cider embraces varietal differentiation, dry is where all the action’s happening, and there are pet-nats and natural ferments and all the same stuff that’s happening with wine.

Sake social has a great selection; they delivered to me in Florida.

Ozeki Jyudan Jikomi is probably my favorite right now!

But it has nothing whatsoever to do with wine. Calling it “rice wine” is false advertising.

Sake is basically beer. It’s made from fermenting grain. There are all kinds of home brewers who are experimenting with sake as well. It’s basically brewing an all grain beer. You take the rice, cook it, add water and yeast and some rice mold and you get sake. You can’t squeeze the grains to get juice out of them.

Wine is made from fermented fruit juice. No water is added because the fruit has sufficient juice. And yeah, I know that people water back but that’s utterly irrelevant because it’s not required at all, whereas with sake, water is absolutely required. Wine can be made from grapes, but is also made from other fruits and some of those aren’t really too bad - blueberry, blackberry, and tart cherries for example, can make tolerable wines if you get past the fact that they aren’t grapes.

That does not mean that sake can’t be enjoyable and even complex, but people go crazy over craft beers too and that doesn’t make those anything like wine.

I think Thor is closest - craft cider is closer to wine. It’s made from fruit juices, not grains and water.

No. Sake isn’t much like wine at all, except some similarities in the way it’s packaged, served and talked about.

FWIW melon is a very common thing to smell in sake of a certain type.

I think the closest “thing” to wine without grapes is Apothic Red.

I think there are many wine-like aspects to sake.

Both are products of natural fermentation, and both are prepared to similar levels of alcohol content. The flavor profiles in sake’s can sometimes seem wine like.

Fine by me however you wanna think of it.

Sake is not overtly considered a candidate for aging or gaining positive attributes over time, etc. but is a fun comparison.

Greg,

I think it’s only called “rice wine” in the US to demystify it, and only for consumers, I haven’t heard that in 10-15 years as education has increased from suppliers and selection has gone from 18L bag in box served hot to serious versions available in US.

Watari Bune is life changing stuff if you’re into Sake.

For being unalike, the back labels read eerily similar.

Irrelevant. How the label reads has only to do with the fact that federal US import laws for alcohol are both strict and narrow minded. They have no category for sake, so they classify it as wine. All labels thus have to follow those paradigms. I would not count on the TTB rules for alcohol to be your supporting argument.

You can stick anything you want on a label for marketing purposes, but that doesn’t change what it is. Beyond Meat packages their “burgers” into packages that look like they are ground meat, but they are not meat.

You’re right - I haven’t heard the phrase recently now that I think about it.

If we’re strictly talking about “taste”, which is closer to grape wine: sake or cider? Curious for both sake and cider Recommendations.

+1 that was killer

Not a cider fan but a close friend is a saki expert. He has sucked me into the black whole. Very complex subject even if, like wine, it is a straight forward production process. Source of the rice is as important as vineyards. So many styles, but again like wine only a small tier are interesting to me and they can get expensive.

To me saki is much more like a spirit. It’s “hot” to my palate; more so than the AbV should seem.

I’d say some dry ciders are pretty vinous. And some barrel aged beers can be port-like.