Are 1982 Bordeaux past peak?

I know there are exceptions = Mouton, other first growths, LLC, etc. But, my sense is that the wines, while still excellent, had more energy and excitement 5-10 years ago.

Last night, some friends and I tasted six 1982 Bordeaux - Ducru Beaucaillou, Cos D’Estournal, Vieux Chateau Certan and the three Leovilles. The wines were excellent, maybe even better, but of the four that I had drunk before (Ducru, Cos, LLC and Leoville Barton) it was only the LLC that was at (or a bit before) its peak. I very much enjoyed the six wines, but I think the Ducru, Cos and LB were better a few years ago.

We also had some excellent starters and finishers. We started with a beautiful Bernard Moreau CM Morgeots 2012. I love Moreau and this is a very nice wine, but it is not as good a wine as the 2014 of the same wine. We then moved to a wonderful Domaine Leflaive PM Clavoillon 2015. Unfortunately, I am scared to age this wine the way I would have in days gone by. But, fortunately, it tastes really delicious right now. This and the Chateau d’Yquem were my favorite wines last night.

For sweet wines at the end, we had a 2012 JJ Prum Graacher Himmelreich GCA. This wine has a lot to it, but unfortunately last night amounted to baby killing. Very shut in. I will not be drinking my other bottles of this for a while. Then, we had a 2011 Chateau d’Yquem. I tasted the 2011 at the winery in 2014, loved it then, loved it last night. This wine has the richness of a Sauternes and the acidity of Climens. Rich, complex and clean. Wonderful wine.

Recent bottles of ‘82 Calon Segur (in mag) and Lynch Bages were stellar - if they are past peak, hard to imagine how good they must have been before. However, unless you are a necrophiliac, I’d say better to drink now than wait too long. Hard to imagine either of these at least getting any better than they are now.

I think we cannot discuss this without the question of storing and bottle variation. When perfectly stored and the bottle is sound all the very good 1982 Bordeaux are not in decline IMO. I even had a 1982 Meyney recently which was very good and fully alive.

The vast majority of bottles I’ve had over the last couple years have been beautiful. Were they better a few years ago? I’m probably not in as good a position as others to comment as I haven’t really followed any long enough to have a longitudinal context from which to draw. I suspect the answer would be highly subjective depending on ones personal preferences around the tradeoffs of primary fruit and more secondary and tertiary elements. I certainly haven’t found a vintage I would rather drink now, though I suppose this doesn’t mean they weren’t better a few years ago. I’ve continued to stock up on the vintage as I’m interested to see where they go over the next 10-20 years, even if some might view that period as one of gradual decline. What I will say is the following:

  1. The HDH tasting of roughly 25-30 examples in late 2017 showed pretty consistently strong results. Most of these were First and Second Growth (and modern day equivalents like Lynch Bages and Palmer, as well as some of the better Right Bank wines). The biggest surprise for me was the consistently of the vintage 35 years on.

  2. In terms of experience with my own bottles, most of which were acquired at auction over the last couple of years, the following were generally all excellent (no particular order):

Haut Brion, Trotanoy, Canon, La Dominique, Meyney, Branaire Ducru, Ducru, Calon Segur, Certan de May, Talbot, Gruaud Larose, Lynch Bages, Beychevelle, Lanessan, Figeac, Leoville Poyferre, Pichon Baron, and Pichon Lalande (maybe my favorite).

Weaker examples have included Haut Batailley, Gloria, and Potensac. In fairness these were all single bottles and could have related at least in part to storage.

At some point I want stage a horizontal tasting - and I’m not sure I have the self discipline to wait until they turn 40.

If we think that the wines won’t get better, would it make sense to store them at very cold temperature (~40 or so) to keep them at peak as long as possible?

Funny you say that. I’ve thought about that with regard to some of my wines that most likely need to be consumed soon. I saw an interview with Louis Kapcsandy where he mentioned keeping a separate cellar at 45 for this very purpose. I haven’t done it yet, but I could probably repurpose a Sub-Zero unit in my kitchen for bottles where both the value and fragility warrant it.

I’m guessing this has been discussed in past threads - I may take a look. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has tried this, particularly if they did it over a long period of time with control bottles from the same case stored at 55.

As it relates to most of my ‘82’s - I’m not losing sleep. I’m betting on graceful aging in most cases for at least the next several years. Also, the fact that I have a difficult time keeping my hands off of these bottles makes it less of a problem.

I recently thought '82 Cos was showing a bit tired, but assumed just that bottle. Ducru, Poyferre, L’Evangile, VCC, and several others have all showed well with no sign of fading. I’ve thought Sociando, Branaire-Ducru, Meyney all better a decade ago. As mentioned though obviously storage history plays a part.
I generally like to watch evolution so never thought of trying very cold to arrest development, would rather just drink up if something was showing age, but guess if I had something in case quantity that might be a consideration.

I agree 100% with Jürgen for wines of this age, 37 years old and counting, it is mainly about provenance. Well stored bottles of Lafite, LLC, Latour and Mouton may still have more to give in my experience. Howard Ripley supplied a d-mag of Cheval Blanc 1982 for his 80th in London on Tuesday among other treasures in d-mag, and it was seamless perfection.

We are doing an informal 1982 tasting in London next month, which will include Meyney and Pichon Lalande among others. I am prepared to concede that the PLL may be past it’s very best but I would bet that perfectly stored bottles are still in the sweet spot. Ducru 1982 has been the bane of my life. So many flawed or corked bottles, but when it is on it, it is fabulous and has a long glorious future.

I still love where the 82s are. Past peak? Maybe ever so slightly for some, but still killer.

Makes you wonder about wines that are far, far older and people almost unanimously praise them. Glorified age play?

That’s not so surprising for those three.

I’m sure there is some of that, and some really do prefer very mature wines. I tend to like them in the zone, but do prefer them on the back-slide more than the young side. Some recent, very pretty wines in that category are 1982 Gloria, Lanessan, Meyney and Cantemerle. I also recently had some very lovely 1978 and 1983 Cantemerle.

The 1986 Meyney is perhaps my favorite QPR of all time, but IMHO, it is past-peak but still delivering nice pleasure.

I wouldn’t go below 45 degrees, as I’d be scared about tartaric acid precipitating out of solution if exposed to too-cold temperatures for too long. But, if you change your 40 to 45, then I’d buy into that.

Fair and balanced assessment. Also, for the bold section, same here!

Fair and balanced assessment. Also, for the bold section, same here!

What immediately came to mind:

We’ve been down th[is] road before
But that’s over now
You keep me comin’ back for more

I have VCC and Canon set for my 40th later this year. I certainly hope that aren’t (much) past peak!

The Canon’s are awesome. Haven’t had the VCC.

Of the three I mentioned earlier as not very good, the Gloria seemed most likely to have been storage issue; the Haut Batailley and Potensac were just faded a fair amount. Also Giscours (I left out)out of 375 was decent but not great. The format might have been part of the issue.

A single data point as I don’t play in this sandbox often, but the 82 Ch. Margaux I opened 2 years ago was mostly gone, a whiff of magical something for a few seconds then fell apart (it was bought on release and stored in one place)