Is Guigal a casualty of Parker’s retirement

I have been watching Guigal, as I have a few older ones coming up at auction. Once the most expensive Rhone, prices seem very soft. I keep getting pricing from various European and US merchants, and it’s clear other Rhones have caught up and surpassed them. Remember in the old days how hard they were to find, and how that also drove up prices in the secondary market. Seems that when Parker went away, nobody is feeling the excitement.

Other than bottles from the best vintages from the '60’s and 70’s, LaLa’s seem to be the same price they were 15 years ago.

The La Las, specifically? Excellent point - they were impossible to find, the most desired Rhones of the era…now nobody seems to care.

how about the entire appellation of CdP?

Let me put it as an analogy question:

Duboeuf is to Beaujolais as is _______ is to Rhone.

I think Guigal’s main problem has nothing to do with Parker, but rather that they make such mass quantities of mediocre négociant wines–that it devalues the rest of their holdings.

K&L had some crazy prices on the La Las (Mouline I believe…sub $190 for 2013s) …and they just sat there.

Word. CdP seemed like it was in such a race to go big and unctuous to satisfy the Parker palate as he aged that it overshot consumer preferences by about 3 or 4 standard deviations of bigness. I’m hoping there is an aggressive style correction over the next decade because really spot on clean CDP can be absolutely lovely.

Australia ooze-monsters seem also to have retreated.

Guigal, with the exception of the Lala’s, were very easy to find and reasonably priced in the 1980’s and thru the 90’s.

Asimov reviewed 2016 CdPs a couple months back and commented that a style correction was under way:

The Guigal Cotes du Rhone Red has shown up in a couple of recent blind tastings. It did well. Quite drinkable, and overall good value.

Me: (calls auction house) Hello, I have some highly-rated Chateaueuf-du-Pape from the legendary 2007 vintage with which I would like to part.

Auction House: Oh boy! Let me put you on hold for a moment so I can grab a pen. (Hold music begins playing)

Me: (After two hours of hold music) Shoot. (Hangs up)

One other issue is that release pricing shot through the roof right at the time Parker’s opinions were becoming less fashionable. From 06 to 11 they almost doubled in release price. Looking now, the 06s are auctioning now for less than three-tier retail at the time.

I happen to think the wines are excellent, and actually do handle their now much-maligned long soujourn in oak if properly-aged, but more traditional Cote-Rotie draws far more excitement at the moment, and one can actually make money rather than lose it selling at auction.

I wish this would happen to a wine I like more than these. I’ve had mature ones a few times at tastings, and they’re fine, but none of them has ever made me feel like something I’d remotely go spend hundreds of dollars on. They’ve just never seemed special or distinctive in that kind of way.

I don’t think that comparison is fair at all, except from the standpoint of volume. Their Cornas, Crozes and St. Joseph bottlings were never exciting, but they were not industrial swill. The Hermitage (mostly bought fruit, I believe) often turned out very well. And the based C-R Brune & Blonde was an excellent wine up through the 90s, when they started losing growers and introduced the Ch. d’Ampuis bottling for the best lots. The Cotes du Rhone, which is produced in enormous quantities, has been consistently good for the 30+ years I’ve been drinking it.

I think the La Las were just always overpriced. In the 90s and 00s many sat on retail shelves gathering dust for years even when Parker was a force in the market.

With Parker’s departure, I think the market for Northern Rhone has fewer people driven solely by reviews. The people who follow the region are all buying Gonon and Allemand now. Allemand now sells for more than the La Las.

+1

A few thoughts. The la turque 1988 was the first wine I ever gave 100 points to. Intoxicating stuff; until I realized that the wines all seemed to taste the same. Over the years, they were easy to pick out blind, and we stopped letting people bring them to the annual OTT bash because we found them boring.

And yet they are beautifully made, plenty of flavor, too much oak of course, and a pretty massive finish. Lots of great elements, but not something I want to drink. Interesting how taste evolves.

I’ve only had LaLas from the 90s and 00s, but in every case I would have preferred a Guigal Cotes du Rhône, and certainly a Guigal Côte Rotie B&B. In one case we did have an older B&B next to the LaLas and it was by far my favorite.

My first Guigal LaLa was the 1988 La Turque. I fell in love. I still thoroughly enjoy the more recent versions, but more as cocktail wines, and that first experience hasn’t been replicated.

How much of that is a problem with the number of states that they can no longer ship to?
I used to purchase a lot of wine from K&L. Now they cannot ship to us at all. Along with about 50% of the states or more.

Yes.
The La Las have never done well (against much less expensive wines) in our Syrah blind tastings unless someone has a real sweet tooth for oak. In fact they have usually come out in the bottom half of the lineup.