Would you rather
a ) Have DRC vines to plant on a boring vineyard in say Michigan
b) Having boring Michigan vines to plant at DRC ?
Substitute any names you like, are the vines more important or the land ?
Agreed.
This experiment has been run many times and comes out very clearly in favor of the land.
Is that why you haven’t planted baco noir?
Oddly enough, Michigan is producing some pretty good wine these days. If you look at the average temperatures, the latitude and sunlight, the elevation, and the weather patterns, they’re comparable to some parts of Europe and can actually do pretty good Pinot Noir, Cab Franc, Blaufrankisch, and others. So I’d pick the land. But the grape has to be compatible. I probably wouldn’t plant Garnacha.
A question too silly to answer …
And what are “Michigan vines”? If you are insisting on grape varieties native to Michigan, then it’s a pointless discussion, as the question is tilted to mediocre results both ways.
Too many variables to really address this. As already noted, a mismatch of vine to vineyard won’t ever produce great results. But that is generally discussed wrt the variety and not the rootstock, yet the rootstock is just as critical. I wouldn’t be looking to plant riparia gloria rootstock in most of california if the intent was to dry farm as it isn’t very drought tolerant. Yet I can dry farm it just fine in Maryland on meter by meter spacing. Just like I wouldn’t put St. George rootstock in for my vineyard as the vigor would be a nightmare to manage. So its really a matching of rootstock and variety both to the specific conditions which include trellising, row orientation, vine spacing, farming methods, and so on.
There there is also the idea of intended end product. What one wants for sparkling wine isn’t the same as for full bodied cabernet. Trying to force square pegs into round holes rarely works out well. Trust me on this. I wasted a decade trying to force my vineyard to produce somthing its not willing to produce. Once I recalibrated my ideas of what my vineyard should produce I discoverd that its a very decent source for a few things, just not what I wanted when I started it. But if I judged it based on my initial intent, I would be greatly disapointed.
which leads directly into the economic aspects of running a winery. The best wine I ever had from my area was made from marechal foche which had been air dried like is done for amarone. It was made by the state viticulture expert as his idea of what would work well for the area and could be a signature wine. It was rejected outright by every grower and winery that he talked to as unsellable. It doesn’t matter that it made great wine and that the grapes work well here. They can sell insipid merlot and make money but marechal foche on a bottle won’t move and neither will some made up custom name to obscure the grape. I have had offers from wineries to buy all of my cabernet harvest sight unseen. They don’t want my aglianico or petit manseng which performs much better.
Yes.
Probably the first example of Michigan wine chauvinism I’ve ever observed on the board. 
I’m completely agreed with Greg on this one. I do think the Pinot Noir struggles to get ripe enough in cool years (and frankly so does the Cab Franc). I think they would make better wines with greater capital investment, but perhaps that will come with time.
Their sparkling wines can be very good as well (L Mawby).
“Best Riesling in World Awarded to Northern Michigan Winery, Black Star Farms”
Don’t diss Michigan lol
YEAH BABY!!!
And seriously, try Wyncroft wines. Shockingly good. Years ago I had them at a dinner with Roy Hersh and a few other folks in Ann Arbor. Changed my point of view entirely. Prior to that I only remember drinking sweet, horrible wine and puking for two days. John - if you come out here, I have a bottle of MI wine for you.
No thoughts just now, but tagging this for a wine seminar I’m doing for a local club in June, where I will be talking about typicity and terroir with a panel.
I feel bad that I still have not tried some of Jim’s wines yet…
+1
It’s easy to dis a wine region you aren’t familiar with. Especially off the beaten path ones that don’t have much incentive to strive to their potential. But, there certainly are great wines from places our biases wouldn’t expect. Probably the best varietal CF I’ve had was brought as a blind wine to a winery workday lunch. Obviously CF. Obviously stunning, world-class. Obviously the best Chinon we’ve ever had. Nope. Not the next best guess. Or the next. Or the next. Finally, someone asked “Well, is this something you brought from Michigan?” Yep. Someone who’d done extensive legwork had brought the very best wine he’d come across.
Great sites sometimes produce great wines despite poor farming practices and bad winemaking. At least, as Brian notes, the variety and rootstock are appropriate. Mediocre sites never producer great wines. And, just because, say, Pinot Noir does poorly on a site, that doesn’t mean it’s a poor site. It could be a mismatch, or a lack of understanding how to farm PN best for that particular site.
What an enticing offer.
I’m not really quarreling with that. I just enjoy giving Greg a hard time.
