Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

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David_K
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Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#1 Post by David_K » April 15th, 2019, 7:40 am

Is out. Seems to be low acid, low botrytis, but hard to glean much else from it. Anyone with first-hand experience?

https://www.skurnik.com/terry-theises-2 ... ge-report/
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#2 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 15th, 2019, 9:29 am

Haven't tasted yet. Still a couple of months out.

Acid seems to be the great divider these days. Some folks want to have battery cables attached to their glass.

I want the acid to be in balance with the rest of the wine. We'll see where these stand in time.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#3 Post by David_K » April 15th, 2019, 9:45 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 15th, 2019, 9:29 am
Haven't tasted yet. Still a couple of months out.

Acid seems to be the great divider these days. Some folks want to have battery cables attached to their glass.

I want the acid to be in balance with the rest of the wine. We'll see where these stand in time.
Agree with you. I used to think if acidity was good, more was better. I know better now. And with a cellar full of 2012s and 2015s, I'd like something a little easier-going (like 2016, which I didn't buy enough of). With that said, I am not really looking for overt opulence either, so it's all a matter of balance.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#4 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 15th, 2019, 9:47 am

“It’s all a matter of balance” is the truth. Of course we all have different balance points.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#5 Post by Howard Cooper » April 15th, 2019, 10:05 am

I like acidity in my German wines. For example, I have really liked vintages like 1990, 2010, etc. I think a lot depends on whether you are drinking dry German wines (which you may need lower acidity because there is no residual sugar to balance the acidity) or more traditional German wines that have a wonderful balance of sweetness and acidity. Too many wines from vintages like 2011 and 2016 taste pretty flabby to me.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#6 Post by Russell Faulkner » April 15th, 2019, 10:44 am

Always better to taste (and certainly form opinions) in September than April.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#7 Post by Arnt Egil Nordlien » April 17th, 2019, 3:04 pm

I used to like acidity more than anything in my rieslings. Nowadays for me clean fruit is more important than anything. Generally I like 12, and even 09, better than 10 for that reason. Well, the question was 2018. I did a day of grape picking in Germany in 18. It was the cleanest fruit I ever have seen. I can't imagine it is possible to go wrong. I have not tasted that much from bottle, but acids are not high, although the fruit is nowhere as ripe as for example 2003. Fruit will probaby mostly be perfect and the cooler sites will gain from giving some freshness.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#8 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm

I will buy folks' unwanted '10s and '15s.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#9 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 18th, 2019, 12:33 pm

You misinterpret...I may prefer vintages like '01, '12, etc., but even more I love surfing the variations that vintages give, high acid or low acid. Every vintage has wines that find a balance point. It would be boring if they were all the same, or even all similar.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#10 Post by David_K » April 18th, 2019, 1:05 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 12:33 pm
You misinterpret...I may prefer vintages like '01, '12, etc., but even more I love surfing the variations that vintages give, high acid or low acid. Every vintage has wines that find a balance point. It would be boring if they were all the same, or even all similar.
Yep. And nobody needs another 2010.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#11 Post by Claus Jeppesen » April 18th, 2019, 1:15 pm

David_K wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 1:05 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 12:33 pm
You misinterpret...I may prefer vintages like '01, '12, etc., but even more I love surfing the variations that vintages give, high acid or low acid. Every vintage has wines that find a balance point. It would be boring if they were all the same, or even all similar.
Yep. And nobody needs another 2010.
??
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#12 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 18th, 2019, 1:31 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 12:33 pm
You misinterpret...I may prefer vintages like '01, '12, etc., but even more I love surfing the variations that vintages give, high acid or low acid. Every vintage has wines that find a balance point. It would be boring if they were all the same, or even all similar.
Definitely agree with your last statement. The difficulty I've found (with Riesling, as well as some other grapes) is that I often find the more "balanced" wines boring --- not always, but often enough that these are varietals where I tend to stick to a particular style or two, rather than have an assortment. ... my comment about buying folks' unwanted '10s and '15s was a bit TIC, but mostly genuine --- I seriously will have that conversation with anyone who has some that they wish they didn't have.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#13 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 18th, 2019, 1:59 pm

Then do you really like Riesling, or do you just like acidic wine?

Not meant as an insult, just an observation.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#14 Post by Alan Rath » April 18th, 2019, 3:29 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I will buy folks' unwanted '10s and '15s.
That's interesting, as I find the two vintages to be almost polar opposites. I loved 10, but I don't care for 15 much at all.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#15 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 18th, 2019, 3:50 pm

2015 has some issues. What’s good is very good, but there is a lot of disjointed wine.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#16 Post by David Glasser » April 18th, 2019, 3:57 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 3:29 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I will buy folks' unwanted '10s and '15s.
That's interesting, as I find the two vintages to be almost polar opposites. I loved 10, but I don't care for 15 much at all.
Too acidic, or something else?

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#17 Post by Alan Rath » April 18th, 2019, 5:10 pm

2010 was higher acid, sleeker wines, particular Spatlese and below. 2015 was a very warm, rich vintage. I guess I don't see them being that similar.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#18 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 18th, 2019, 5:11 pm

2015 has a lot of acidity. Unfortunately in a lot of cases it sticks out at odd angles.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#19 Post by Alan Rath » April 18th, 2019, 5:19 pm

That could be, I stopped sampling the wines after a dozen or so, just too ripe and rich for me.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#20 Post by David_K » April 18th, 2019, 5:26 pm

That's surprising, Alan. Both '10 and '15 are vintages of high ripeness and high acidity, though I think '10 is higher in both. I find '15 to be much more consistent and balanced.
Last edited by David_K on April 18th, 2019, 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#21 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 18th, 2019, 5:27 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 1:59 pm
Then do you really like Riesling, or do you just like acidic wine?

Not meant as an insult, just an observation.
Love Riesling. Prefer the versions that fall on the acidic side of what most would deem "well-balanced." Also, I like acidic wine. :-D


Alan,
Your comment surprises me. How do you feel they are polar opposites? I feel they are quite similar, with '10 being a turbo-charged '15, if you will. My Riesling experience pales in comparison to many here, including many in this thread --- that having been said, '10 may be my favorite Riesling vintage to date (keeping in mind I can only comment on vintages I have sufficient experience with).
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#22 Post by Alan Rath » April 18th, 2019, 5:31 pm

David_K wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:26 pm
That's surprising, Alan. Both '10 and '15 are vintages of high ripeness and high acidity, though I think '10 is higher in both. I find '15 to be much more consistent and balanced.
Hmm, I can only say that 15 was FAR warmer and riper than 10 to my tastes. That's true in both Germany and Austria. I have quite a few 10s, mostly from Austria, but virtually no 15s. 15 might in fact be "balanced" in the sense that there is enough acidity to save the wines, but the absolute ripeness levels were off the charts, beyond anything I've had since 2003.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#23 Post by Alan Rath » April 18th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:27 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 1:59 pm
Then do you really like Riesling, or do you just like acidic wine?

Not meant as an insult, just an observation.
Love Riesling. Prefer the versions that fall on the acidic side of what most would deem "well-balanced." Also, I like acidic wine. :-D


Alan,
Your comment surprises me. How do you feel they are polar opposites? I feel they are quite similar, with '10 being a turbo-charged '15, if you will. My Riesling experience pales in comparison to many here, including many in this thread --- that having been said, '10 may be my favorite Riesling vintage to date (keeping in mind I can only comment on vintages I have sufficient experience with).
Brian, see my post above. These are just my own impressions (and recollections, from tasting the 10 vintage on release). I quite liked a lot of 10s, but 15s are mostly beyond my threshold for ripeness.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#24 Post by Jayson Cohen » April 18th, 2019, 5:43 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:31 pm
David_K wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:26 pm
That's surprising, Alan. Both '10 and '15 are vintages of high ripeness and high acidity, though I think '10 is higher in both. I find '15 to be much more consistent and balanced.
Hmm, I can only say that 15 was FAR warmer and riper than 10 to my tastes. That's true in both Germany and Austria. I have quite a few 10s, mostly from Austria, but virtually no 15s. 15 might in fact be "balanced" in the sense that there is enough acidity to save the wines, but the absolute ripeness levels were off the charts, beyond anything I've had since 2003.
I agree that Austrian 2015s I’ve tried are not to my taste (way too big for me), at least at Smaragd level - but would not group 2015 MSR with Austria in one swoop. For me the highlights of 2015 MSR are the cooler Saar and Ruwer valley wines, and producers in the Mosel who (typically) make highly structured wines IMO, like Schaefer, with strong acidity and good dry extract.

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#25 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 18th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Alan,
I assume you were able to taste the '03s young (I did not taste them young). Do you feel that '15 is going to turn out like '03, or do you think '15 has enough extra acidity to make it meaningfully different? Asking because I strongly dislike '03, and will consider pumping the brakes on '15 if they're going to evolve into something fat and flabby.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#26 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 18th, 2019, 6:36 pm

2015 is not even close to 2003 in terms of extreme warmth and richness over acidity.

I started tasting German vintages on release in 1996, and 2003 remains a singular year. That being said, the wines are starting to come around into form. 2015 has much higher acid than 2003. There have been a whole bunch of high ripeness years since 2003 (e.g. 2005, 2009, 2011), but none that were nearly so extreme.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#27 Post by David_K » April 18th, 2019, 6:39 pm

For what it's worth, here is what Mosel Fine Wines had to say about 2015 vis a vis 2010:
The combination of clean ripe fruit and high acidity makes for some comparisons with such great vintages as 2012, 2009, 1990 and 1975. This upfront fruitiness boosted by great acidity makes for parallels with some of the great vintages in the past. Many growers, including Hanno Zilliken (Geltz-Zilliken) or Rudi Hermann (Dr. Hermann), compare 2015 to their 1975, which had a similar “easy to understand” aromatic profile in their youth. Others, such as Egon Müller, compare it to their 1990 due to the combination of ripe but fresh fruits and zesty acidity. Others, such as Carl von Schubert, see parallels to 2009, but with deeper and zestier fruits. Some mention a beefed-up version of 2012 due to the clean fruits and zesty acidity. However, almost no maker really sees any comparison with 2010, because the ripeness in 2010 came from botrytis and not from a hot summer.
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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#28 Post by Kirk.Grant » April 18th, 2019, 6:58 pm

There were some 2015 GG's that I drank like they had the cure in them during 2017 while I was buying them...I think it's going to come down to site & producer. Out of the 3 cases I stashed for the vintage only 7 bottles are Auslese level sweet and everything else is dry. There are some that will need 10+ years to show their beauty...but I have faith in the few that I think will need time to show their brilliance. 2012 is the vintage I'm trying not to drink right now because they are so good and I want to see some with a little age. However, I'd had 7 or 8 bottles of the 2012 Dönnhoff Hermannshohle Riesling Großes Gewächs and to me it's just plain brilliant. I did not buy 2010, 2011,2013, 2014, or 2016 heavily. I just bought a few from my favorite producers. We all have to balance our purchases and drink wines at our own pace...more power to others that see things differently. It makes it easier for me...and what wine geek doesn't love that?

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Re: Terry Theise’s 2018 Germany Vintage Report

#29 Post by David Glasser » April 19th, 2019, 5:29 am

I too skipped 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2016.
Been drinking earlier stuff while waiting on 2012 and 2015.
Kirk, are you drinking 2015 before 2012, or am I reading more into your post than you said?

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