Need some basic help with wine cellar build

Hello Wine Berserkers. I recently hired a company to do our basement remodel, which will include a small temp/humidity controlled wine cellar. Of course, during the pitch, they said they know how to do wine cellars but I’m now finding that they’re more or less clueless. Unfortunately, they don’t even know what they don’t know and I, with no design or build experience myself, am trying to help them figure it out. Unfortunately, it’s too late to turn back with them…


I was hoping for some advice from the community:

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  • INSULATION: We live in the mid-Atlantic. Ceilings are insulated to R-30. The builders plan foam insulation of the walls, which back up against an unfinished part of the basement. Does foam insulation come in different R values and is there an R value I need? If foam insulation is used, do I still need a vapor barrier? Does the ceiling need a vapor barrier?


    There is a large cut out in one of the walls into which a built-in base cabinet will be installed. Does the back of the base cabinet (again, back of cabinet is in an unfinished part of the basement) need to be insulated and vapor barriered? I assume yes because a cellar is essentially a walk-in refrigerator, right?

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  • COOLING UNIT: The cellar is basically a triangle, about 7.25 feet tall by 6 feet deep on one wall and 7.5 feet wide on the other wall. The door will be glass, about 7 feet tall by 6 feet wide. I asked a cooler company to calculate the BTUH and selected (but haven’t yet purchased) a ~1900 BTUH unit, the CellarPro 2000VSi. I plan to front duct the unit and have the cold air and return air vents in the ceiling or high on one of the walls. Do these vents need to be a certain distance from each other so the return air intake isn’t simply taking in the cold air that’s exhausted? Would it be optimal to have these vents as far from each other as possible or does it not matter?

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  • DESIGN: I’m aiming for a modern look to the cellar and decided against traditional racking. I’m thinking about Stact paneling on one wall and Buoyant wall-mounted cable racks on the other. Any other suggestions from the community?


    Thanks for the help!

don’t forget a vapor barrier. The higher R value the better. Look at split systems for cooling. Make space for magnums and oversized bottles. Use search function—this subject has been covered exhaustively. Others will chime in.

Thank you, will do.

A couple of thoughts/comments/questions:
Even though your ceiling (existing first floor floor) may be R-30, it is probably batt, and you don’t know the condition of the vapor barrier (vb) so I would have them replace it with vb and foam.
There is both low and high density foam, high density has a R value of about 6 per inch, low density is about 3.5. Low density is cheaper and usually used.
Not sure about your ”cutout” but you walk in refrigerator observation is correct, so you need to abut your cabinet to your wine cellar wall.
Also recommend a split system, but if you do go ducted technically you can put the two vents adjacent to one another but I would separate them by a couple of feet if possible. The return won’t draw in the supply, if you doubt that take some matches and see how far away you can blow it out. Then do the opposite, starting far away see how close you need to get before you can suck it out, being careful not to burn your lips.
As for racking I did not google the two you mentioned, but speaking from experience I would suggest using something that helps you maximize the number of bottles stored, at +/- 1400 bottles mine is too small. I use individual bins made of redwood that are double deep on two of 3 sides.
Good Luck.

Thanks, that’s very helpful. Do you happen to know whether the foam (high or low density) is also a VB, or is a separate VB needed even when foam is used?

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Closed cell spray foam will act as a vapour barrier so no need for an additional one. The thickness of the foam will determine the R value. There are a few good threads on this board which you can find with the search function.

Don’t forget to post some pictures.

As mentioned used closed cell foam (also called high density) on all the walls and ceiling. 2" or 3" will give you good R value and then the vapor barrier issues will also be met. Do not use batting or open cell foam. As also mentioned a split system is usually best. Your space is “small” so you may be able to get away with an all in one unit if you can vent outside which is best. As you have found out unless you are dealing with a commercial refrigeration installer/builder you will need to figure out the design.

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As noted by John S, only the high density closed cell foam acts as a vapor barrier, (better described as a vapor retarder), the low density type (open cell) requires you to put in plastic sheeting for the vapor retarder. The low density type is sometimes referred to as 1/2 pound foam.

Thanks very much everyone for your help. Sorry I have not posted for several days, I have been a bit under the weather. I will post some pictures over the weekend.

As for design, I had a traditional cellar in NJ, but I bought a contemporary house in Florida and built a modern glass enclosed wine room. I looked into STACT, but chose Vintage View racks instead and love the aesthetic. I have some walls with triple deep racks, and in the front facing the glass, I have double deep back to back with triple deep and they really look great. I felt I could get more bottles in the space, and for substantially less money, than with STACT.

Probably clear from other responses, but the base cabinet should also be insulated on the back (basement side). Essentially you want to create an insulated “box” with everything inside it insulated from the outside. The closed cell foam is the way to go, though you can add fibreglass batts on the wine cellar side to add R value. (IIRC you need about 2" of foam for an effective vapor barrier).

Regarding cooling, because you’re venting to unfinished basement, a through the wall unit probably should suffice.

Just a couple of things I’d add.

There’s a point of diminishing returns with R values, so once you get up around R-18 or 20, there’s very little difference in temps with additional insulation.

The best polyiso insulation board has an R value of 6.5/inch, the same as closed-cell foam, and it’s a lot cheaper. It will also work as a vapor barrier if it’s installed well. Spray foam is probably a more reliable vapor barrier.

Here are some other threads, all in the last year, that might be helpful. (I just searched for “insulation.”)

Finishing Off a Passive Cellar

Wine cellar build questions

Vapor barrier not needed if using foam?

Building cellar: finishing the racking and ‘what I would do differently’

Richard Gold’s classic book “How and Why to Build a Wine Cellar” may help you to avoid some common mistakes. It can be purchased on Amazon (including for the Kindle) at a modest price.

Colin

Gold’s book is pretty amazing. I just wish he’d had bullet point summaries. It’s so dense and OCD-ish that it can be overwhelming. (Note to Jim: Gold’s book is about building passive cellars, but much of that is relevant to cellars with mechanical cooling.)