Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

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maureen nelson
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Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#1 Post by maureen nelson » March 30th, 2019, 11:12 am

I don’t mean mature. I mean if you had to pick a vintage burg theme for dinner and want to open good premier crus that will be open and tasty, which would you choose?

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#2 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 30th, 2019, 11:15 am

I have had some good luck the last couple of years with 2002. Mugneret-Gibourg and D’Angerville both doing well.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#3 Post by A. So » March 30th, 2019, 11:27 am

The last year or two, I've been really impressed by 2000
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#4 Post by maureen nelson » March 30th, 2019, 11:35 am

A. So wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 11:27 am
The last year or two, I've been really impressed by 2000
I probably should have clarified - not 2000 (I only have one and my dining colleagues have none), 2003 or 2007 for the same reason.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#5 Post by John J » March 30th, 2019, 11:40 am

My votes would be '02 and maybe some well chosen '06s.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#6 Post by YLee » March 30th, 2019, 11:45 am

2002, 2005, 2009
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#7 Post by A. So » March 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm

maureen nelson wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 11:35 am
A. So wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 11:27 am
The last year or two, I've been really impressed by 2000
I probably should have clarified - not 2000 (I only have one and my dining colleagues have none), 2003 or 2007 for the same reason.
Fair enough. 2002 would be my next choice.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#8 Post by George Hejna » March 30th, 2019, 12:47 pm

I think while not the most impressive vintages 07 and 08 are drinking really well right now and still relatively easy to source and not that expensive by Burgundy standards.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#9 Post by A Songeur » March 30th, 2019, 1:10 pm

I would add 2004 if you fancy the style and not afraid of greenies and I also have add some good 2006.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#10 Post by PCLIN » March 30th, 2019, 1:14 pm

2001, 2002, and 2007
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#11 Post by Howard Cooper » March 30th, 2019, 1:51 pm

2001
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#12 Post by maureen nelson » March 30th, 2019, 2:31 pm

George Hejna wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 12:47 pm
I think while not the most impressive vintages 07 and 08 are drinking really well right now and still relatively easy to source and not that expensive by Burgundy standards.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#13 Post by maureen nelson » March 30th, 2019, 2:33 pm

A Songeur wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 1:10 pm
I would add 2004 if you fancy the style and not afraid of greenies and I also have add some good 2006.
Opened an 04 last time with this group. WOTN (but then it ws Truchot Charmes).

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#14 Post by Nowell Karten » March 30th, 2019, 11:22 pm

If you're eliminating 2000 and 2007, then I think your best bets for "open and tasty" Premier Crus are 2002 and 2001.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#15 Post by Robert Grenley » March 31st, 2019, 12:09 am

No one chose 1999?
Based on our tastings we have enjoyed the 2001’s, the 2002’s have been good but still primary in most cases and seem less complex than the 2001’s at this stage (I don’t know about you, but I bought fewer 01’s and had to go backfilling over the years), we are just starting to try some 2005’s and they are showing their quality but not a lot else right now, and I did not buy 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008. I have not really investigated the 2009’s and 2010’s in my cellar, I am not sure what they would show now, though I have a feeling the 2010’s will always drink well but not show much development yet.

But I must say that every 1999 we have opened has been a treat, and whether they are approaching maturity or still have a ways to go, every one has been enjoyable, and in tastings with other vintages have almost always been our favorites.

So, my choices, depending on what you have:
1999!
2001
2002
...for tasting ones that are at or a little closer to maturity, and otherwise:
2005...realizing that they still will be pretty primary and perhaps a bit massive.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#16 Post by Gerhard P. » March 31st, 2019, 3:53 am

YLee wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 11:45 am
2002, 2005, 2009
Most probably it would be a mistake to open a better 2005 - most are more or less closed at the moment.
2002 ok, better 2001 ...
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#17 Post by Scott Brunson » March 31st, 2019, 4:06 am

'02 Marquis d'Angerville Champans was terrific a few weeks ago.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#18 Post by Howard Cooper » March 31st, 2019, 4:42 am

Robert Grenley wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 12:09 am
I did not buy 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008.
I sometimes wonder if I should have bought more 2003s. The three best Burgundies I have tasted this year have been 2003s - Truchot's Clos de la Roche, Charmes Chambertin and GC Combottes. I have not been tasting other 2003s (bought Truchots because I had a source that year at great prices) but wonder if other producers made wines that turned out to be quite good.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#19 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » March 31st, 2019, 4:46 am

08 is great atm

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#20 Post by Gerhard P. » March 31st, 2019, 8:33 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 4:42 am
Robert Grenley wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 12:09 am
I did not buy 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008.
I sometimes wonder if I should have bought more 2003s. The three best Burgundies I have tasted this year have been 2003s - Truchot's Clos de la Roche, Charmes Chambertin and GC Combottes. I have not been tasting other 2003s (bought Truchots because I had a source that year at great prices) but wonder if other producers made wines that turned out to be quite good.
When I´ve written here that 2003 is not a bad vintage - and patience is required, many wines will turn out very good eventually ...
you all know what the echo has been (hot, horrible, not enough acidity, boring etc.) ...
[shrug.gif]
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 4:46 am
08 is great atm
I wouldn´t say that regarding the majority of the better wines - still quite monolythic, acidic and (by far) not giving most of what they could give later ...
I had a minor Morey Village 2 weeks ago that was quite nice, but even that one will benefit from waiting ...
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#21 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » March 31st, 2019, 8:51 am

I mean, you probably shouldn't be drinking 08 Roumier BM or something but she's talking about 1er wines; I drank a 08 Lambrays a month or so ago that was great.
Gerhard P. wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 8:33 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 4:42 am
Robert Grenley wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 12:09 am
I did not buy 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008.
I sometimes wonder if I should have bought more 2003s. The three best Burgundies I have tasted this year have been 2003s - Truchot's Clos de la Roche, Charmes Chambertin and GC Combottes. I have not been tasting other 2003s (bought Truchots because I had a source that year at great prices) but wonder if other producers made wines that turned out to be quite good.
When I´ve written here that 2003 is not a bad vintage - and patience is required, many wines will turn out very good eventually ...
you all know what the echo has been (hot, horrible, not enough acidity, boring etc.) ...
[shrug.gif]
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 4:46 am
08 is great atm
I wouldn´t say that regarding the majority of the better wines - still quite monolythic, acidic and (by far) not giving most of what they could give later ...
I had a minor Morey Village 2 weeks ago that was quite nice, but even that one will benefit from waiting ...

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#22 Post by Jayson Cohen » March 31st, 2019, 9:08 am

Another vote for 2001. Especially if you will have time to let bottles open up and evolve over a long dinner.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#23 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » March 31st, 2019, 9:16 am

I have found that the 05 CdB reds other than lafarge and angerville have been drinking really well.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#24 Post by mdavis » March 31st, 2019, 10:41 am

00, 07, 01, 02.

Definitely not 05 at 1er+. My 05 Bourgogne's are young.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#25 Post by Howard Cooper » March 31st, 2019, 10:48 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 9:16 am
I have found that the 05 CdB reds other than lafarge and angerville have been drinking really well.
Virtually everything I have had from 2005 other than Bourgogne Rouge is too young.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#26 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » March 31st, 2019, 12:09 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 10:48 am
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 9:16 am
I have found that the 05 CdB reds other than lafarge and angerville have been drinking really well.
Virtually everything I have had from 2005 other than Bourgogne Rouge is too young.
We had the 05 Rossignol chevrets last spring which was spectacular and a few 05 Pousse were nice as well.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#27 Post by M. Meer » March 31st, 2019, 12:18 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 4:42 am
wonder if other producers made wines that turned out to be quite good.
In a word, yes. It seems it would have to do with a higher percentage of clay in the soil. Producer notwithstanding, it's not entirely surprising you enjoyed the Charmes and Combottes.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#28 Post by Michel Linden » March 31st, 2019, 3:24 pm

2001
vogue musigny and bonnes marres looks wonderful atm
0r
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#29 Post by John Morris » March 31st, 2019, 3:59 pm

maureen nelson wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 11:12 am
I don’t mean mature. I mean if you had to pick a vintage burg theme for dinner and want to open good premier crus that will be open and tasty, which would you choose?
FYI, Maureen, there was another thread on the same topic starting a week ago with a poll: Which vintages of red Burgundy are you planning to open or would open (if you had them) this year?
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#30 Post by NoahR » March 31st, 2019, 4:19 pm

2001. 99’s and 02’s not ready for Prime time yet. 03 is a ripeness minefield.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#31 Post by Jay Miller » March 31st, 2019, 5:04 pm

2001 IMO

If you're willing to go a year earlier 1998s have opened up again.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#32 Post by mike c » March 31st, 2019, 7:37 pm

01/06/07 for good premier / grand cru
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#33 Post by T. Altmayer » March 31st, 2019, 7:49 pm

05 Savigny's have been very nice, especially Bize and Pavelot.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#34 Post by Rauno E (NZ) » March 31st, 2019, 8:25 pm

2001 or 2002 would be my top picks. Many '06s are also showing well, but I think those older two are better.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#35 Post by Gerhard P. » April 1st, 2019, 12:24 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 8:51 am
I mean, you probably shouldn't be drinking 08 Roumier BM or something but she's talking about 1er wines; I drank a 08 Lambrays a month or so ago that was great.
It´s a different thing - when you enjoyed a bottle of 08 Lambrays ... or to state: "08 is great atm ..."

Most 08s? That would be (imho) a totally wrong impression.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#36 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » April 1st, 2019, 3:58 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
April 1st, 2019, 12:24 am
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
March 31st, 2019, 8:51 am
I mean, you probably shouldn't be drinking 08 Roumier BM or something but she's talking about 1er wines; I drank a 08 Lambrays a month or so ago that was great.
It´s a different thing - when you enjoyed a bottle of 08 Lambrays ... or to state: "08 is great atm ..."

Most 08s? That would be (imho) a totally wrong impression.
I’ve had a number of other 08 that have been gold lately, that was only an example. The only ones I’ve noticed that clearly weren’t ready and shouldn’t have been opened were dujac cdlr and some angerville.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#37 Post by Scott E. Wade » April 1st, 2019, 5:28 am

For premier cru, 1999 would seem a good bet. I've always thought 2002 has been a generous vintage. I've had a string of 2007s from Volnay that have been lovely. A recent 2007 Dujac Malconsorts on the other hand...well, I guess it's in the name.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#38 Post by maureen nelson » April 1st, 2019, 6:22 pm

Well, here is the problem. Althoughy I have lots of 1999s (first great year after i went into private practice) and a good stash remaining of excellent 01s (although diminishing numbers of little wines), I am drinking with people who do not. And while my wine is in my cellar in my basement, my dinner companions’ wine is stored at Domaine. So we narrowed it to 2008 (I like the vintage in general) and 2002. So which array would you choose:

2002 - JJ Confuron CV, Grivot VR Beaux Monts, and Jadot GC CSJ

2008 - Ch de Chorey Beaune Cras, HN CV, and Bachelet Corbeaux or HN Murgers.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#39 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » April 1st, 2019, 6:43 pm

I’d go with one of the 02s; they’d probably all be at least good.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#40 Post by Larry Link » April 1st, 2019, 6:47 pm

maureen nelson wrote:
April 1st, 2019, 6:22 pm
Well, here is the problem. Althoughy I have lots of 1999s (first great year after i went into private practice) and a good stash remaining of excellent 01s (although diminishing numbers of little wines), I am drinking with people who do not. And while my wine is in my cellar in my basement, my dinner companions’ wine is stored at Domaine. So we narrowed it to 2008 (I like the vintage in general) and 2002. So which array would you choose:

2002 - JJ Confuron CV, Grivot VR Beaux Monts, and Jadot GC CSJ

2008 - Ch de Chorey Beaune Cras, HN CV, and Bachelet Corbeaux or HN Murgers.
If it was my cellar, I would pull the 2002 Jadot GC CSJ. The wine's in a good place and will show nicely.

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#41 Post by maureen nelson » April 1st, 2019, 7:09 pm

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. We will be opening at least three reds. Each of us has offered an 02 and an 08. So the choices are between all three of the 2002s listed and all three of the 2008s (well either bachelet or murgers as the third),

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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#42 Post by PCLIN » April 1st, 2019, 9:21 pm

2002 Jadot CSJ, only wine I have on the list, at least can get another data point. [wink.gif]
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#43 Post by Gerhard P. » April 1st, 2019, 11:31 pm

maureen nelson wrote:
April 1st, 2019, 7:09 pm
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. We will be opening at least three reds. Each of us has offered an 02 and an 08. So the choices are between all three of the 2002s listed and all three of the 2008s (well either bachelet or murgers as the third),
No question: all three 2002s. While they are (most probably) not fully mature they should give a lot of pleasure (at least if you give them enough air well in advance).

No offense intended at all, but my feeling is that recommendations for (too) young vintages often is kind of wishful thinking ....
"I´ve got a lot of vintage 20.. (fill in), but almost nothing older, so it should be drinking well now ..."
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#44 Post by Howard Cooper » April 2nd, 2019, 5:09 am

You are really boxing yourself into a corner. The theme (wines of all the same vintage) is getting in the way of drinking good wines. Is having a theme really so important after all the constraints being put on it? Vintages don't show well, wines do. Just pick out some wines drinking well know and don't worry about whether they are all from the same vintage. Theme - wines drinking well now.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#45 Post by Robert Grenley » April 3rd, 2019, 10:09 am

I can imagine that the 2002’s will give more pleasure, and I can’t imagine the 08’s giving much enjoyment at this point, but then again I was not a fan of the 08’s on release so take that with a grain of salt.

The subject of themed tastings is interesting, and my wine drinking friends argue and joke about it each time we decide to get together for a tasting. One of us always insists on a theme, but although we all have deep cellars and we all have Burgundy, one of ours is deepest in Piedmont, another’s is deepest in Northern Rhône, mine is deepest in Burgundy, etc. So although that gives us great potential for drinking a variety of great wine, it makes it harder to do themed tastings in any one area without one person consistently providing all the wines. Add to that that we are all hesitant to open Burgundy from say 2005
on that we know may be way too young. On the other hand, it does make for some spirited email threads as we decide on a theme for the next tasting, and the themes are getting broader in nature. This weekend it is Chambolle, and we will see what vintages show up, and whether indeed they are all from Chambolle! Although I know some Musigny and Bonnes Mares that will make an appearance.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#46 Post by Robert Grenley » April 3rd, 2019, 10:11 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 5:09 am
You are really boxing yourself into a corner. The theme (wines of all the same vintage) is getting in the way of drinking good wines. Is having a theme really so important after all the constraints being put on it? Vintages don't show well, wines do. Just pick out some wines drinking well know and don't worry about whether they are all from the same vintage. Theme - wines drinking well now.
Ha ha, that is exactly the theme that I have proposed to my group on more than one occasion.
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#47 Post by Howard Cooper » April 3rd, 2019, 10:34 am

Robert,

Our group usually does a different Burgundy village every month. Occasionally, we have other themes, like last month villages level wines - believe it or not, this is always one of the best tastings of the year. In the last couple of years, we have started doing tastings for the 10th anniversary of a vintage. So, last year we did 2008s and the year before 2007s. This year, I am debating whether it would be better to do 2009s or half 2009s and half 2010s to compare the vintages.

Most of the time, everyone has a wine on theme, but if someone doesn't, we have work arounds. The person can always bring a Champagne, white Burgundy and/or sweet wine to end with. And, we have certain exceptions that one can always bring to all tastings - although I am not sure anyone has exercised these exceptions. For example, there is a DRC exception, a Leroy exception and, of course in our group, a Truchot exception. I think that there are a few others, but you get the idea.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Jay Miller
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#48 Post by Jay Miller » April 3rd, 2019, 10:44 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 10:34 am
Robert,

Our group usually does a different Burgundy village every month. Occasionally, we have other themes, like last month villages level wines - believe it or not, this is always one of the best tastings of the year. In the last couple of years, we have started doing tastings for the 10th anniversary of a vintage. So, last year we did 2008s and the year before 2007s. This year, I am debating whether it would be better to do 2009s or half 2009s and half 2010s to compare the vintages.
How did the 2008s show? I'd expect them to be pretty shut down at this point but I haven't experimented in a while.

And Maureen's group wants to do a vintage theme, there's nothing wrong with that. Both themed and unthemed dinners have their own distinct pleasures.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Sanjay Nandurkar
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#49 Post by Sanjay Nandurkar » April 3rd, 2019, 1:14 pm

Our wine group also does 10 year retrospectives for Burgundy.

This year we plan to do two 10 year retrospectives - 2009 1er and 2009 Grand Cru separately. And a 20 year retrospective of 1999s too.


Apart from that there are other themed Burgundy dinners like the Bonnes Mares theme we had last month.

Odd Rydland
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Re: Which red burg vintage (1999-2010) showing well now?

#50 Post by Odd Rydland » April 3rd, 2019, 1:25 pm

2001 without a doubt in my mind. Unfortunately my stocks are running seriously low, a Rousseau Clos de Beze to be opened on Friday being my last one I think (the previous 2001 was a superb Roumier Cras opened some time before Christmas). I may have a few Jadots left.

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