2018 Bordeaux.

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
User avatar
David_K
Posts: 702
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 7:01 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#101 Post by David_K » April 3rd, 2019, 9:49 am

Greg K wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 8:34 am
NoahR wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 6:10 am
Perhaps long time winemakers can take unfinished wines and extrapolate their development. I can’t. And tasting unfinished or relatively inaccessible and shut down wines is still for intellectual curiosity more than enjoyment for me.
I still remember the first time I tasted out of a barrel (Mouton's 2005 vintage!) and thought to myself "ugh, this is terrible!". To this day, I'm impressed people can extrapolate as much as they can from barrel tastings. Or claim they can, at least! [snort.gif]

P.S. You are still with PM. neener
It's a lot easier when your livelihood depends on really liking it.
K@ntrОwi╦z

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13829
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#102 Post by Craig G » April 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:42 am
Too many posts to read to get caught up. Can someone explain what you’re all arguing about?
We found a typo on your website. Can you please fix it?
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#103 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 3rd, 2019, 10:27 am

Craig G wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am
Jeff Leve wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:42 am
Too many posts to read to get caught up. Can someone explain what you’re all arguing about?
We found a typo on your website. Can you please fix it?
[rofl.gif]
ITB

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 15769
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#104 Post by Howard Cooper » April 3rd, 2019, 10:36 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:42 am
Too many posts to read to get caught up. Can someone explain what you’re all arguing about?
Boredough vs. Burgundy. Burgundy won. [cheers.gif]
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

User avatar
Chris Freemott
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 5742
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 7:00 pm
Location: Naperville, IL

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#105 Post by Chris Freemott » April 3rd, 2019, 12:43 pm

@ EP now.
Yeah, barrel tasting is hard.
Wines are really ripe, rich, tannic, acidic and hard to drink.

Vintage of the century for sure.


*Palmer, Pontet Canet are really quite good as is apparently Ducru via a friend who had them (I haven't)...Margaux almost had me going to a dentist to see if my teeth remained in my head. I have zero clue WTF that wine will become - it may eat the bottle.

User avatar
Glen Gold
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 601
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 8:53 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#106 Post by Glen Gold » April 3rd, 2019, 12:48 pm

Chris Freemott wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 12:43 pm
Margaux almost had me going to a dentist to see if my teeth remained in my head. I have zero clue WTF that wine will become - it may eat the bottle.
This made me laugh. Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is baffled by, uh, fresh Bordeaux.
Avatar = Jeremy from Peep Show.

Jeff Leve
Posts: 1587
Joined: August 2nd, 2009, 4:17 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#107 Post by Jeff Leve » April 3rd, 2019, 12:52 pm

Craig G wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am
Jeff Leve wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:42 am
Too many posts to read to get caught up. Can someone explain what you’re all arguing about?
We found a typo on your website. Can you please fix it?
Just one? I’m the writer and editor, so I plead guilty 😥😁

User avatar
Chris Freemott
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 5742
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 7:00 pm
Location: Naperville, IL

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#108 Post by Chris Freemott » April 3rd, 2019, 12:56 pm

This made me laugh. Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is baffled by, uh, fresh Bordeaux.
Happy to help. I will tell you the Merlot and Cab are super aromatic. Zero dispute you are getting wines with a nose you can fall in love with, but, FFS, the acid and tannins are having a battle royale right now. This may be a wonderful wine in 10?(like I know) years, maybe 20, but good lord are they hard to taste and drink.

The merlot dominated estates are really enjoying the EP. Their wines are super fun to put your nose in right now. Big fruit. Dark, lovely, viscous wine. You can get they have grip and are made in a powerful way that is hiding the 14.5% average alcohol.

I will say I have no goddamn idea what Pichon Lalande made this year. It was an anathema to me compared to the others I had within hundreds of feet (or so) from their estate. The wine was almost thin. It was hot and had no nose. Such an outlier.

Did I mention Pontet-Canet had me really grinning from ear to ear?

Jeff Leve
Posts: 1587
Joined: August 2nd, 2009, 4:17 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#109 Post by Jeff Leve » April 3rd, 2019, 12:57 pm

Chris Freemott wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 12:43 pm
@ EP now.
Yeah, barrel tasting is hard.
Wines are really ripe, rich, tannic, acidic and hard to drink....Margaux almost had me going to a dentist to see if my teeth remained in my head. I have zero clue WTF that wine will become - it may eat the bottle.

Really? I find many samples so good, they are easy to drink now. A barrel sample that is hard, would get a very poor score, at least from me.

All good wines have tannins. It’s not the amount of tannins that’s important, it’s the level of ripeness to the tannins that matters.

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 17764
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#110 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 3rd, 2019, 1:00 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 9:42 am
Too many posts to read to get caught up. Can someone explain what you’re all arguing about?
wrong opinions, apparently. rolleyes
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
Chris Freemott
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 5742
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 7:00 pm
Location: Naperville, IL

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#111 Post by Chris Freemott » April 3rd, 2019, 1:01 pm

you're lightyears ahead of me in this Jeff. I'll defer to you.

To be clear, I've nearly universally loved the wines I've had and respect the tannic structure but this is my first BDX EP as well so my frame of reference is exactly N=1

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#112 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 4th, 2019, 4:20 am

Chris Freemott wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 1:01 pm
you're lightyears ahead of me in this Jeff. I'll defer to you.

To be clear, I've nearly universally loved the wines I've had and respect the tannic structure but this is my first BDX EP as well so my frame of reference is exactly N=1
Chris
Really depends on the vintage and when you are actually tasting. En primeur can be as early as the 20th March and as late as mid April depending when Easter fell. I think they have done away with the Easter timing, but an early date and a late malolactic made for a very difficult tasting. Likewise it is difficult to taste a really tannic vintage, which I gather 2018 is. But some years, when the wines are balanced and lovely, you can’t wait to get up in the morning to taste, other years, you go home, drink Alka Seltzer and recover slowly.

You compared earlier drinking a closed wine to drinking en primeur. Not similar at all; with very few exceptions, you can taste a wine en primeur and it will show what it will end up being. Not so with the closed wine, which is like dealing with an angry teenager who has just slammed the door after a fight.
ITB

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13470
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#113 Post by Jay Miller » April 4th, 2019, 4:37 am

Craig G wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 7:30 am
Jürgen Steinke wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am
Mark,

is this the usual explanation – too young – when the result is not as expected? At least its an often heard argument. When we had the Judgement of Sauternes (1995 top Napa vs. 1995 top Bordeaux) only very experienced wine drinkers and pro critics were present and the wines had been 10 years old. The result was the same. Napa triumphed.
LOL, was there ever a worse thing to taste than 10 year old 1995 Bordeaux?
Exactly. This tasting has me [scratch.gif]

Unlike Mark I’m a fan of the vintage but it only started opening at around age 20 and most will still benefit from more time.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 31562
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#114 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 4th, 2019, 4:50 am

Jay Miller wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 4:37 am
Craig G wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 7:30 am
Jürgen Steinke wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am
Mark,

is this the usual explanation – too young – when the result is not as expected? At least its an often heard argument. When we had the Judgement of Sauternes (1995 top Napa vs. 1995 top Bordeaux) only very experienced wine drinkers and pro critics were present and the wines had been 10 years old. The result was the same. Napa triumphed.
LOL, was there ever a worse thing to taste than 10 year old 1995 Bordeaux?
Exactly. This tasting has me [scratch.gif]

Unlike Mark I’m a fan of the vintage but it only started opening at around age 20 and most will still benefit from more time.
Absolutely. A 95 GPL last year was still grippy
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Brian Thorne
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 160
Joined: May 28th, 2009, 9:37 pm
Location: Delaware Valley

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#115 Post by Brian Thorne » April 4th, 2019, 7:51 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 4:50 am
Jay Miller wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 4:37 am
Craig G wrote:
April 2nd, 2019, 7:30 am
LOL, was there ever a worse thing to taste than 10 year old 1995 Bordeaux?
Exactly. This tasting has me [scratch.gif]

Unlike Mark I’m a fan of the vintage but it only started opening at around age 20 and most will still benefit from more time.
Absolutely. A 95 GPL last year was still grippy
Tasted the 95 and 96 GPL side by side a few months ago, and the difference between the two wines was eye opening. 96 GPL in a much much better place for drinking now.

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#116 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 4th, 2019, 8:46 am

Back to 2018, another friend just called. It’s a small crop, and he is convinced that the pricing will be at 2016 levels. He likes a few wines more than ‘16 (Latour and Lafite especially) but overall feels 2016 is better, and he feels backfilling makes sense.
ITB

Jim F
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 575
Joined: November 16th, 2015, 6:15 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#117 Post by Jim F » April 4th, 2019, 8:58 am

Yes, I think I agree on the 2016 approach. Some are hitting the shelves and at prices pretty similar to the futures pricing, at least in the NJ market. I would add 2015, from which I have tasted more wines and like them a lot. Of course, I have tasted no 2018’s, and the emerging information remains very early in the game/ premature. But based on what I have read, and thank you WBers for some of it, I can see myself picking up a few 18’s for giggles, but not going deep as I did (for me) in 16 and 15.......and 14 also. I am anjoying the reading, just as I am following the pre-NFL draft hype, etc; it is kind of fun, but just don’t get sucked in too far.
Jim Freeman

User avatar
Chris Freemott
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 5742
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 7:00 pm
Location: Naperville, IL

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#118 Post by Chris Freemott » April 4th, 2019, 2:25 pm

Mark,
Thank you for that response and context. Appreciative.
I am likely using the wrong words out of ignorance.

Here is what I feel from my first trip here for an EP

Aromatics are essentially universally enjoyable and bring a smile to me each time.
Tannins and acid are both present
Crop is indeed smaller with some (Palmer) coming in at sub 1/3 their normal production
I'm here with a friend who owns a shop in Austria so he's getting pricing hints - 2016 plus a touch is the whisper figure
I was baffled by the Chinese female 'live blogger' at Pontet-Canet with a globe camera on a stick actually live blogging via voice her tastings. Lots of eye-rolling on that one!
P-C, Palmer, Pape Clement are my favorite reds so far
Domain Chevalier's whites had more acid than nearly anyone else and I liked them.
I was shocked at how you can have these estates right on the edge of town and surrounded by suburban homes. I had no clue.
Merlot aromatics are crazy fun at this ripeness
I need a Crest Whitening strip, or eight.

DanielP
Posts: 388
Joined: October 5th, 2015, 7:21 pm
Location: NYC

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#119 Post by DanielP » April 4th, 2019, 2:39 pm

Looks like I won't be buying much 2018 EP, if those whispers are correct regarding pricing being similar to or greater than 2016. I will probably still follow EP because it is still interesting/fun.
P@ik

Jeff Leve
Posts: 1587
Joined: August 2nd, 2009, 4:17 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#120 Post by Jeff Leve » April 4th, 2019, 3:12 pm

Chris Freemott wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 2:25 pm

Crop is indeed smaller with some (Palmer) coming in at sub 1/3 their normal production

I'm here with a friend who owns a shop in Austria so he's getting pricing hints - 2016 plus a touch is the whisper figure
FWIW, nobody knows anything about pricing. It’s all speculation. Do not believe the rumors. Wines could be at 2016 or above or below. There are many factors to consider.

As for the quantity, it depends on the estate. Palmer is down about 75%. But that is due to their conversion to biodynamic farming and intense mildew pressure. That is not the norm. Many chateau have close to normal yields, but as quality is high, less of the harvest has gone into second wines, so overall, quantities of the grand vin at many estates is close to normal or just slightly lower than their target.

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#121 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 4th, 2019, 9:30 pm

Let’s hope you are wrong. But since the Bordelaise have such a great record of blowing it, you may be right.
ITB

Jon Chan
Posts: 79
Joined: December 9th, 2015, 9:39 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#122 Post by Jon Chan » April 5th, 2019, 6:05 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 3:12 pm
Chris Freemott wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 2:25 pm

Crop is indeed smaller with some (Palmer) coming in at sub 1/3 their normal production

I'm here with a friend who owns a shop in Austria so he's getting pricing hints - 2016 plus a touch is the whisper figure
FWIW, nobody knows anything about pricing. It’s all speculation. Do not believe the rumors. Wines could be at 2016 or above or below. There are many factors to consider.

As for the quantity, it depends on the estate. Palmer is down about 75%. But that is due to their conversion to biodynamic farming and intense mildew pressure. That is not the norm. Many chateau have close to normal yields, but as quality is high, less of the harvest has gone into second wines, so overall, quantities of the grand vin at many estates is close to normal or just slightly lower than their target.
In recent history, the only time EP took a price cut was in '17, and it was still priced higher than '15 in bottle.

I have faith that Bordeaux will get it right this time /s

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#123 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 5th, 2019, 6:37 am

Prepare to be disappointed.
ITB

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13829
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#124 Post by Craig G » April 5th, 2019, 7:34 am

Jon Chan wrote:
April 5th, 2019, 6:05 am
In recent history, the only time EP took a price cut was in '17, and it was still priced higher than '15 in bottle.
What do you consider recent? It has happened many times since 2000.
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#125 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 7th, 2019, 5:37 am

Craig G wrote:
April 5th, 2019, 7:34 am
Jon Chan wrote:
April 5th, 2019, 6:05 am
In recent history, the only time EP took a price cut was in '17, and it was still priced higher than '15 in bottle.
What do you consider recent? It has happened many times since 2000.
Of course it has gone down, but usually nowhere near enough. The problem is that reducing prices unless the reductions are really serious, do not lead to sales. There are good vintages and lesser ones, and you can only get consumer buyers when the lesser vintages are at least at a 40% discount. The Chinese market obscured this for a while by buying labels irrespective of reputation, but it is a much more sophisticated market now, so they too are wanting the best years.

And more importantly, a failure to sell through to consumers never effects he chateau itself, who set the prices. As long as negotiants continue to take full allocations, the Châteaux can be completely oblivious to what is happening in the marketplace. The negotiants are stuck with high priced inventory, and the owners of the Châteaux can price as they like.

I am hearing rumors finally that not all allocations are being taken up, and one major darling from the Right Bank was having problems with his 2017, as he was forcing merchants to buy his lesser satellite wines to be allowed to buy the Grand Vin.

Although Wine Spectator is reporting little or no interest in the 2018s, I doubt whether the trade will band together to do anything, as when stocks of 2016 finally run out, they need stocks of a strong vintage like 2018.

But God help them if the make another 2013. With all the macro problems in the market, China, Brexit, the economy etc, etc, that is when things will get dicey for the estates.
ITB

crickey
Posts: 338
Joined: August 3rd, 2009, 2:59 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#126 Post by crickey » April 9th, 2019, 10:49 am

For those who triangulate (or octagonate or whatever) critics' scores, Liv-ex publishes a useful table for high-end 2018 Bordeaux. Only three critics in now; presumably it will be updated with each batch.

https://www.liv-ex.com/news-insights/bo ... 18-scores/

Molesworth has been blogging or whatever on a daily basis from Bordeaux. Although he doesn't score the wines, you can get some indication of quality, which is useful for the wines he hasn't officially scored yet (like the first growths). For instance, he said that Margaux was a hair behind 2015 (99 points) and a hair ahead of the 2016 (97 points), so one can infer he thinks the 2018 is about a 98-pointer.
Chri$ Ri¢k€y

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5906
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#127 Post by David Glasser » April 9th, 2019, 12:36 pm

I don’t find any use for them, but here’s another score aggregator, if you’re into that: https://bordoverview.com/?q=wine

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 31562
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#128 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 9th, 2019, 1:36 pm

David Glasser wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 12:36 pm
I don’t find any use for them, but here’s another score aggregator, if you’re into that: https://bordoverview.com/?q=wine
I absolutely found this useful when I was buying recent vintage bdx. Seeing a wine that is all over the map in scores was a red flag. Seeing one on which every critic, regardless of dogma, loved was a temptation.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#129 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 9th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Talking to a few people who were there, the mildew really hurt the properties that practice Biodynamics. Incredibly low yields at Palmer, and Pontet Canet, and lower than normal at Margaux. I have heard mixed reviews on the Palmer and Pontet Canet.
ITB

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 31562
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#130 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 9th, 2019, 2:54 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 2:51 pm
Talking to a few people who were there, the mildew really hurt the properties that practice Biodynamics. Incredibly low yields at Palmer, and Pontet Canet, and lower than normal at Margaux. I have heard mixed reviews on the Palmer and Pontet Canet.
Obviously their buried cow horns were not sufficiently full of manure. Shame, that.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5906
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#131 Post by David Glasser » April 9th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 1:36 pm
David Glasser wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 12:36 pm
I don’t find any use for them, but here’s another score aggregator, if you’re into that: https://bordoverview.com/?q=wine
I absolutely found this useful when I was buying recent vintage bdx. Seeing a wine that is all over the map in scores was a red flag. Seeing one on which every critic, regardless of dogma, loved was a temptation.
When I was buying futures I found it to be TMI. I tended to go on a few trusted palates, some of whom aren’t important enough to be on that list, and my past history with an estate.

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#132 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 9th, 2019, 4:25 pm

I was thinking of giving the vintage a miss, but decided that I would buy two of my favorites Figeac and Ducru both of which were strong, and possibly VCC.
ITB

Joshua Kates
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: October 30th, 2011, 6:31 am

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#133 Post by Joshua Kates » April 9th, 2019, 5:52 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 2:54 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 2:51 pm
Talking to a few people who were there, the mildew really hurt the properties that practice Biodynamics. Incredibly low yields at Palmer, and Pontet Canet, and lower than normal at Margaux. I have heard mixed reviews on the Palmer and Pontet Canet.
Obviously their buried cow horns were not sufficiently full of manure. Shame, that.
Great remark--had me laughing out loud!!!

User avatar
Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 692
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#134 Post by Sh@n A » April 9th, 2019, 5:58 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 1:36 pm
David Glasser wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 12:36 pm
I don’t find any use for them, but here’s another score aggregator, if you’re into that: https://bordoverview.com/?q=wine
I absolutely found this useful when I was buying recent vintage bdx. Seeing a wine that is all over the map in scores was a red flag. Seeing one on which every critic, regardless of dogma, loved was a temptation.
Thanks for sharing this link. 2016 Brane Cantenac the 'best value' winner per the critics? A fraction of the price ranked above and below. Yet the CT scores are a lot lower than those ranked above/below it.
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
Jim Brennan
Posts: 4313
Joined: April 17th, 2009, 6:10 pm
Location: People's Republic of Illinois

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#135 Post by Jim Brennan » April 9th, 2019, 6:07 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 3:12 pm
Chris Freemott wrote:
April 4th, 2019, 2:25 pm

Crop is indeed smaller with some (Palmer) coming in at sub 1/3 their normal production

I'm here with a friend who owns a shop in Austria so he's getting pricing hints - 2016 plus a touch is the whisper figure
FWIW, nobody knows anything about pricing. It’s all speculation. Do not believe the rumors. Wines could be at 2016 or above or below. There are many factors to consider.
And don't forget, only time will tell if these wines will stand the test of time!

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 17764
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#136 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 9th, 2019, 7:18 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 29th, 2019, 4:00 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
March 29th, 2019, 1:42 pm
Sounds like 2018 will be an easy pass for me.
This is why I sometimes find this board a little irritating. It is way too early to make pronouncement either on the quality of the vintage, or what is going to be the pricing on it. Not only have the tastings barely started, but some of the information written here is completely wrong.

I am sure there are plenty of reasons why you wouldn’t buy Brian, such as budget, too many wines in the cellar, saving up for a vacation in San Sebastián, but if you are not buying because of the quality of the vintage or the cost, you must have information that nobody else has.
Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 4:25 pm
I was thinking of giving the vintage a miss, but decided that I would buy two of my favorites Figeac and Ducru both of which were strong, and possibly VCC.
[rofl.gif]
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#137 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 9th, 2019, 7:20 pm

I have verticals to fill, Brian, what can I say.

Besides, the wines have at least been tasted.
ITB

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 17764
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#138 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 9th, 2019, 7:24 pm

Oh, you don't have to defend your actions.

I just find your hypocrisy hilarious.

Carry on! [cheers.gif]
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5627
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#139 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 9th, 2019, 8:18 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 7:24 pm
Oh, you don't have to defend your actions.

I just find your hypocrisy hilarious.

Carry on! [cheers.gif]
I am not sure why you want to get into a pissing contest, but ok.

Your original comment was based on your almost complete ignorance of what goes on in Bordeaux, and made even before the wines were tasted, based on some pretty thin comments on this board. I found the timing of your knee jerk comment, well not very bright.

I think I know a little more about Bordeaux than you do, and when I do make minor buying decisions I do it after talking to people who have actually tasted the wines.
ITB

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 17764
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#140 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 9th, 2019, 8:46 pm

You're a riot, Mark! [rofl.gif] [thankyou.gif]
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

DanielP
Posts: 388
Joined: October 5th, 2015, 7:21 pm
Location: NYC

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#141 Post by DanielP » April 9th, 2019, 9:32 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 8:18 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 7:24 pm
Oh, you don't have to defend your actions.

I just find your hypocrisy hilarious.

Carry on! [cheers.gif]
I am not sure why you want to get into a pissing contest, but ok.

Your original comment was based on your almost complete ignorance of what goes on in Bordeaux, and made even before the wines were tasted, based on some pretty thin comments on this board. I found the timing of your knee jerk comment, well not very bright.

I think I know a little more about Bordeaux than you do, and when I do make minor buying decisions I do it after talking to people who have actually tasted the wines.
Well keep on patting yourself on the back. This only further reinforces why the rest of us ignorant peasants should have zero interest in buying the wines as futures.
P@ik

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 31562
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#142 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 10th, 2019, 4:22 am

Sh@n A wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 5:58 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 1:36 pm
David Glasser wrote:
April 9th, 2019, 12:36 pm
I don’t find any use for them, but here’s another score aggregator, if you’re into that: https://bordoverview.com/?q=wine
I absolutely found this useful when I was buying recent vintage bdx. Seeing a wine that is all over the map in scores was a red flag. Seeing one on which every critic, regardless of dogma, loved was a temptation.
Thanks for sharing this link. 2016 Brane Cantenac the 'best value' winner per the critics? A fraction of the price ranked above and below. Yet the CT scores are a lot lower than those ranked above/below it.
I believe (or believed) in using all the available data for buying futures, but it is important to take them for what they are. Because CT scores are crowd sourced, and because each user has his/her own judgment scale (WTF is a "92?"), they are homogenized to an extreme degree. At least for a "mainstream" wine like Brane C, it would be damn difficult to have a very high consolidated score; they get leavened. Scan the actual notes to see what people had to say about the wine. The crowd-sourced number (to me, of course) is effectively useless.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 30629
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#143 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 10th, 2019, 5:25 am

Right. The CT scores and notes are just too random.

But Neal, if the scores were leavened wouldn’t they rise?
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 31562
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#144 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 10th, 2019, 5:43 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 10th, 2019, 5:25 am
Right. The CT scores and notes are just too random.

But Neal, if the scores were leavened wouldn’t they rise?
Hmm. I have to rethink my word usage. I mean that the crowd makes all scores rise to a certain level and few above -- the Lake Wobegon syndrome, where all our wines are above average. Hard to get an 87, almost impossible to get a 95. Everybody gets a 90-92.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 30629
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#145 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 10th, 2019, 6:31 am

So unleavened scores.

Perhaps leveled.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Brian Thorne
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 160
Joined: May 28th, 2009, 9:37 pm
Location: Delaware Valley

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#146 Post by Brian Thorne » April 11th, 2019, 9:06 am

I saw a negoicant offered the 2018 Bellefont Belcier for 30 Euros, so I'm thinking that should be in the $45 range for consumers? That seems to be on par with what the 2015 and 2016 are going for right now. Just one data point of course...

User avatar
etomasi
Posts: 901
Joined: November 22nd, 2013, 11:48 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#147 Post by etomasi » April 11th, 2019, 10:54 am

Whelp. Good-bye sanity.

Sucklings scores... https://www.liv-ex.com/2019/04/james-su ... ur-scores/
---
Eric Tomasi
CT: Ericindc

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13470
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#148 Post by Jay Miller » April 11th, 2019, 1:10 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 10th, 2019, 6:31 am
So unleavened scores.

Perhaps leveled.
The question then becomes whether wines with unleavened scores are kosher for Passover.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Jon Chan
Posts: 79
Joined: December 9th, 2015, 9:39 pm

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#149 Post by Jon Chan » April 11th, 2019, 1:17 pm

etomasi wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 10:54 am
Whelp. Good-bye sanity.

Sucklings scores... https://www.liv-ex.com/2019/04/james-su ... ur-scores/
That's just insanity.

YLee
Posts: 702
Joined: September 20th, 2018, 8:09 am

Re: 2018 Bordeaux.

#150 Post by YLee » April 11th, 2019, 1:26 pm

Let's wait and see what others say.
-¥ 0 ñ 9

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”