Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

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Mark Golodetz
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Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#1 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 7th, 2019, 6:04 am

The British merchant invited several in the trade and a number of critics to this tasting. If they (the critics) haven't come out with their own tasting notes, I am sure it is in the works.


https://www.farrvintners.com/blog.php
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#2 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 7th, 2019, 7:32 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 6:04 am
The British merchant invited several in the trade and a number of critics to this tasting. If they (the critics) haven't come out with their own tasting notes, I am sure it is in the works.


https://www.farrvintners.com/blog.php
A good read, always a fun retrospective at this 10-year mark. Always surprises me to see some critics praising the classic wines like Cheval much in the same way they tout Pavie and Troplong. I bet on 2010 and 2008 over 2009, but have slowly been adding in a few stalwarts, like Leoville Barton, which was also praised in this tasting. I liked the praise on Cantermerle, I have a few but really loaded up on the 2010. Can still be found under $50. I'll track some down. Le Gay seems interesting, too.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#3 Post by A. So » March 7th, 2019, 7:36 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 7:32 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 6:04 am
The British merchant invited several in the trade and a number of critics to this tasting. If they (the critics) haven't come out with their own tasting notes, I am sure it is in the works.


https://www.farrvintners.com/blog.php
A good read, always a fun retrospective at this 10-year mark. Always surprises me to see some critics praising the classic wines like Cheval much in the same way they tout Pavie and Troplong. I bet on 2010 and 2008 over 2009, but have slowly been adding in a few stalwarts, like Leoville Barton, which was also praised in this tasting. I liked the praise on Cantermerle, I have a few but really loaded up on the 2010. Can still be found under $50. I'll track some down. Le Gay seems interesting, too.
Some very fine wines on both sides
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#4 Post by Brian Thorne » March 7th, 2019, 7:44 am

Nice article, thanks for sharing. 2009 was the last vintage of Bordeaux that I bought heavily in (I still see several of my Premier Cru '09 futures as "pending" in CT, I should delete them but I can't bring myself to do it) and am pleased to see/read how they are evolving in bottle. Really hoping these are the modern day equivalents of the 1990 vintage, which I absolutely love for current drinking.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#5 Post by crickey » March 7th, 2019, 9:08 am

Neal Martin has said he will publish his notes soon.

I thought it was interesting that two different tasters (I've seen other participants' blog posts), including the one from Farr, thought that the 2009 Cos was one of the stars of the tasting. I will be interested to see Neal Martin's review, since in the past he has not been a fan of it.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#6 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 7th, 2019, 9:20 am

Having recently retasted it from half bottle, it was as a big, rich anonymous wine, with a slightly sweet edge. Personally as in 2010, I disliked it.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#7 Post by Marc Frontario » March 7th, 2019, 9:28 am

Once Pavie was mentioned as one of the better wines, the tasting lost most/all of its credibility [snort.gif]
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#8 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 7th, 2019, 9:53 am

When I changed computers I lost pictures of John Gilman tasting 2009 and 2010 Pavie. You could see he disliked the ‘09, but that was nothing compared to the look of absolute horror that he had with the 2010.

Talking of John, his note on the Cos 2009 is a classic.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#9 Post by JAKE H A N C O C K » March 7th, 2019, 10:03 am

crickey wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:08 am
Neal Martin has said he will publish his notes soon.

I thought it was interesting that two different tasters (I've seen other participants' blog posts), including the one from Farr, thought that the 2009 Cos was one of the stars of the tasting. I will be interested to see Neal Martin's review, since in the past he has not been a fan of it.
My guess is he rates it 94, says it’s a high quality wine but stylistically not for everyone.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#10 Post by Howard Cooper » March 7th, 2019, 12:50 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:53 am
When I changed computers I lost pictures of John Gilman tasting 2009 and 2010 Pavie. You could see he disliked the ‘09, but that was nothing compared to the look of absolute horror that he had with the 2010.

Talking of John, his note on the Cos 2009 is a classic.
Loved his note. Wish he still reviewed Bordeaux
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#11 Post by Doug Schulman » March 7th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Marc Frontario wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:28 am
Once Pavie was mentioned as one of the better wines, the tasting lost most/all of its credibility
I was thinking that too, not of the tasting itself, but of this person's opinions of the wines.
Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:53 am
Talking of John [Gilman], his note on the Cos 2009 is a classic.
I can imagine!
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#12 Post by PHuff » March 7th, 2019, 5:29 pm

There must be a helluva lot of Berserkers hitting that link, as it won't open for me........their server traffic must be too high..........:)
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#13 Post by Matthew Hemming » March 8th, 2019, 12:14 am

Marc Frontario wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:28 am
Once Pavie was mentioned as one of the better wines, the tasting lost most/all of its credibility [snort.gif]
I'm a member of this panel tasting and was part of both the 2015 and 2009 reviews this year.

I gave the Pavie a respectable enough score - it's blind, remember - but it was thoroughly out-classed by Canon for me in terms of St Emilion. Overall, the triumph of Latour has been pretty widely discussed but my own top scores were an astonishing Ausone and an equally beautiful Haut Brion. The quality of the top wines in 2009, though, was jaw dropping and splitting them was extremely difficult. Needless to say, I am very much looking forward to next year's tastings of 2016 and 2010.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#14 Post by Jim F » March 9th, 2019, 4:14 am

For better or for worse, I mostly stayed out of the 2009 bordeaux game. I recall not liking the pricing at a time when I was being very, very cost conscious. Somewhere in my cellar in a screwed shut wooden box I have beychevelle, branaire and cantenac brown, and that may be it. I guess I will go find them in a couple/ few years and see what I think!
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#15 Post by Julian Marshall » March 9th, 2019, 8:11 am

Jim, I don't know what the market is like in the US, but in France most of the wines can be found for good prices, sometimes less than EP, so you didn't miss much!

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#16 Post by Brian Thorne » March 14th, 2019, 7:26 pm

I saw both Neal Martin and Lisa PB released their notes on the 2009 Bordeaux today from the 10 years on tastings. They both mentioned a worrisome amount of bottles that showed signs of premature oxidation, which is concerning! Lisa also made a general comment about several wines that seemed to be going over the hill, but didn’t call them out.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#17 Post by Howard Cooper » March 15th, 2019, 4:57 am

As a general rule, I have not really liked 2009s, although there are ones like Montrose that have been quite good. Many of the wines to me taste too flabby, not enough acidity. In general, my favorite vintage of recent years has been 2005, although I would like to taste more 2016s.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#18 Post by Glen Gold » March 15th, 2019, 8:15 am

Brian Thorne wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 7:26 pm
I saw both Neal Martin and Lisa PB released their notes on the 2009 Bordeaux today from the 10 years on tastings. They both mentioned a worrisome amount of bottles that showed signs of premature oxidation, which is concerning! Lisa also made a general comment about several wines that seemed to be going over the hill, but didn’t call them out.
Holy cow. I don't subscribe so I can't see exactly what they say, but am very curious if that clusters around an appellation or if it's more wide-spread.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#19 Post by matthias h » March 15th, 2019, 8:35 am

the link in the initial post reads:

"We started off on the right bank with our first stop being Saint Emilion. There was a great variation in wine-making styles here and one imagines that picking dates were varied too. The wines were certainly not uniformly great and there were some issues with volatile acidity, over-ripeness and oxidation at a few Chateaux."

that might be part of an answer, although there might be others.

myself, I didn't experience too much 2009ers (most are still sleeping), but none of them was over the hill.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#20 Post by Brian Thorne » March 15th, 2019, 10:12 am

From the 10-year tasting reports of Lisa and Neal re: 2009 Bordeaux...

"A number of wines across varieties and communes seem to be prematurely oxidizing." LPB
"Especially at the Southwold tasting, I was not the only person concerned about the number of bottles showing signs of oxidation" NM

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#21 Post by James Billy » March 17th, 2019, 3:43 am

Brian Thorne wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 10:12 am
From the 10-year tasting reports of Lisa and Neal re: 2009 Bordeaux...

"A number of wines across varieties and communes seem to be prematurely oxidizing." LPB
"Especially at the Southwold tasting, I was not the only person concerned about the number of bottles showing signs of oxidation" NM
Maybe they had been open too long? Double decanted too long ago? 'Slow oxed' for too long? Not kept cool enough after opening?

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#22 Post by Howard Cooper » March 17th, 2019, 5:23 am

James Billy wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 3:43 am
Brian Thorne wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 10:12 am
From the 10-year tasting reports of Lisa and Neal re: 2009 Bordeaux...

"A number of wines across varieties and communes seem to be prematurely oxidizing." LPB
"Especially at the Southwold tasting, I was not the only person concerned about the number of bottles showing signs of oxidation" NM
Maybe they had been open too long? Double decanted too long ago? 'Slow oxed' for too long? Not kept cool enough after opening?
or too many of them were picked from overripe grapes.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#23 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 17th, 2019, 7:21 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 5:23 am
James Billy wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 3:43 am
Brian Thorne wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 10:12 am
From the 10-year tasting reports of Lisa and Neal re: 2009 Bordeaux...

"A number of wines across varieties and communes seem to be prematurely oxidizing." LPB
"Especially at the Southwold tasting, I was not the only person concerned about the number of bottles showing signs of oxidation" NM
Maybe they had been open too long? Double decanted too long ago? 'Slow oxed' for too long? Not kept cool enough after opening?
or too many of them were picked from overripe grapes.
She may have had too much kitten fur in her mouth.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#24 Post by crickey » March 18th, 2019, 7:44 am

I went carefully through Neal Martin's notes. He included all of his notes from different tastings (Farr, BI and chateau), sometimes three for the same wine. One thing that struck me was how many wines showed differently between the different tastings, particularly with flaws or "non-representative" bottles. Lots of "?" or tentative ratings. Pavie Macquin actually had two bad bottles, each earning a "?". D'Yquem didn't get a "?," but only because he more or less cheated: the first bottle was bad at the tasting, so he went for a second one that was proper.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#25 Post by Glen Gold » March 18th, 2019, 10:17 am

The notes on bad bottles of 2009s are interesting to me because, as I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago, I had some bottles of wine in my garage that came out cooked -- even though it never got crazy hot in there. And guess what? One case was 2009 cru bourgeoise -- de Fieuzal, La Tour Martillac, Monbousquet -- stuff like that. I haven't gone through the whole case yet, but I'm wondering if those were predisposed to having issues.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#26 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 18th, 2019, 10:58 am

Interesting. I did not buy a lot of 2009 (almost none, actually) but I was not planning on drinking what I had bought for a very long time. Now I am beginning to think that might not be the best strategy
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#27 Post by James Billy » March 23rd, 2019, 11:38 pm

I think 2009 was a good year if you were careful. You really had to taste before buying. Many wines were horribly secondary and/or hot (often both.) But many wines were very nice in a semi-New World style. If you have Catholic tastes, it's definitely a vintage worth having (in small quantities.)

Saying that, if I had to choose 2009 or 2010 I usually much prefer the latter, bit really, you should taste each wine before buying as no vintage is 100% good or bad. Sociando 2003 is superb!

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#28 Post by David Glasser » March 24th, 2019, 12:32 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 5:23 am
James Billy wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 3:43 am
Brian Thorne wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 10:12 am
From the 10-year tasting reports of Lisa and Neal re: 2009 Bordeaux...

"A number of wines across varieties and communes seem to be prematurely oxidizing." LPB
"Especially at the Southwold tasting, I was not the only person concerned about the number of bottles showing signs of oxidation" NM
Maybe they had been open too long? Double decanted too long ago? 'Slow oxed' for too long? Not kept cool enough after opening?
or too many of them were picked from overripe grapes.
Is ripeness really related to premature oxidation or is this a TIC comment about the modern trend to greater ripeness in Bordeaux?

I have a fair number of 2009s and would be interested in hearing which specific wines, if any, were singled out as showing oxidation. I haven’t touched most of the "major" 2009s yet, but have seen no signs of oxidation in any of the following that I’ve opened in the past year (2 or 3 times for some of these):

Lanessan
Haut-Bergey
Meyney
Branon
Poujeaux
Sociando Mallet
Lalande Borie
Cantemerle
Rochemorin

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#29 Post by crickey » March 24th, 2019, 2:33 pm

From Neal Martin's notes (with the tasting event in parentheses):

Angelus (Farr)
Haut Bailly (Farr)
L'Evangile (Farr)
La Lagune (Farr, this was brett)
Leoville Las Cases (Farr)
Pavie Macquin (Farr and B&I)

There were a number of others that, based on the notes, I would guess showed signs of volatile acidity, and a number more that he thought were not representative compared with past bottles (Clerc Milon, Haut Brion, Langoa Barton, Les Carmes Haut Brion, Malescot St. Exupery, Marquis de Terme, Poujeaux, Sociando Mallet). There were also quite a few that he indicated showed troubling signs of age (Beausejour, Canon, Monbrison, Rouget), which was something Lisa noted as well. The Farr tasting seemed to have more flawed wines.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#30 Post by Howard Cooper » March 24th, 2019, 2:36 pm

David Glasser wrote:
March 24th, 2019, 12:32 pm


Is ripeness really related to premature oxidation or is this a TIC comment about the modern trend to greater ripeness in Bordeaux?

I don't know whether overripeness (as opposed to ripeness) has anything to do with the type of premature oxidation that we discuss with respect to white Burgundies, Loire whites, etc.

But it has been my experience that wines from overripe grapes tend not to age as well as wines from properly ripe grapes. Is this premature oxidation or something else? I don't know, I consider this something else.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#31 Post by David Glasser » March 24th, 2019, 3:42 pm

Chris, thanks for the list. I only have a couple from that first bunch and haven’t tried any. Will take a look in on Haut Bailly this week. Of the rest, I've had Poujeaux a few times and Sociando once over the past 6 months andthought they were showing fine.

Howard, got it, that makes sense. I’m still not sure I know where the line between ripe and too ripe to age is in Bordeaux. My preferences cover a broader range of ripeness than some of the more traditional palates here. I've had more faith in the 2009s than some. So far I’ve been happy with the wines I’ve opened, but for my palate the real test for the bigger wines is if they develop that magical complexity out past age 20 or 25. We'll see if my faith was misplaced in another decade or two, if I’m still around.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#32 Post by Howard Cooper » March 24th, 2019, 6:26 pm

David Glasser wrote:
March 24th, 2019, 3:42 pm
Chris, thanks for the list. I only have a couple from that first bunch and haven’t tried any. Will take a look in on Haut Bailly this week. Of the rest, I've had Poujeaux a few times and Sociando once over the past 6 months andthought they were showing fine.

Howard, got it, that makes sense. I’m still not sure I know where the line between ripe and too ripe to age is in Bordeaux. My preferences cover a broader range of ripeness than some of the more traditional palates here. I've had more faith in the 2009s than some. So far I’ve been happy with the wines I’ve opened, but for my palate the real test for the bigger wines is if they develop that magical complexity out past age 20 or 25. We'll see if my faith was misplaced in another decade or two, if I’m still around.
David, I was not suggesting that ALL 2009 Bordeauxs were made with overripe grapes, just at least some of the ones starting to taste old. It is not overripeness that is why I am not a big fan of 2009s. A number of wines I have tasted from excellent estates do not seem to have this flaw or taste older. But, with only a few exceptions, the wines I have had seem to me to have insufficient acidity - they just don’t taste fresh compared with vintages like 2000, 2001, 2005, 2008 and 2014.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#33 Post by David Glasser » March 24th, 2019, 6:45 pm

I hear you Howard. The 2009s are on the low acid side. Could be an issue for aging, but they shouldn’t be crapping out at only 10 years.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#34 Post by Jürgen Steinke » March 25th, 2019, 5:47 am

Over the last year I tasted and drank plenty Crus Bourgeoise from vintage 2009 and liked pretty much all of them. A wonderful vintage for this category IMO. All the big Left Bank wines are too young for my palate.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#35 Post by kyledorsey » March 25th, 2019, 5:51 am

I haven't had any of the 'big names' from 2009, but a 2009 Cantemerle opened the other night was showing well. It could probably go a few more years, but I don't see a particular reason to wait.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#36 Post by Howard Cooper » March 25th, 2019, 8:21 am

David Glasser wrote:
March 24th, 2019, 6:45 pm
I hear you Howard. The 2009s are on the low acid side. Could be an issue for aging, but they shouldn’t be crapping out at only 10 years.
As I said, the ones where the only issue is low acid are rich wines that to me taste flabby but others like you enjoy. My guess is the ones crapping out at only 10 years were the ones made from overripe grapes. My guess is that some producers looking for maximum ripeness guessed wrong on picking dates and waited too long.
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#37 Post by David Glasser » March 25th, 2019, 8:43 am

Perhaps, but while overripe may lead to poor long-term aging, I don’t equate it with crapping out at only 10 years. Unless they were maybe picking raisins that were all sugar and no acid.

One of the wines pegged as oxidized was the 2009 Haut Bailly. The Farr Vintners bottle may have been oxidized, but the one I opened yesterday was not. And while lower acid and riper than say the 2010, and not an AFWE wine, it was not way out there. So it’s also possible that there is some bottle variation or difference in heat exposure somewhere along the way.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#38 Post by Jürgen Steinke » March 25th, 2019, 9:21 am

Leoville Las Cases was on the list. This wine is as traditionally made as possible and I cannot imagine that overripe grapes played a role. Something else must be responsible. IMO.

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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#39 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 25th, 2019, 9:46 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 25th, 2019, 8:21 am
David Glasser wrote:
March 24th, 2019, 6:45 pm
I hear you Howard. The 2009s are on the low acid side. Could be an issue for aging, but they shouldn’t be crapping out at only 10 years.
As I said, the ones where the only issue is low acid are rich wines that to me taste flabby but others like you enjoy. My guess is the ones crapping out at only 10 years were the ones made from overripe grapes. My guess is that some producers looking for maximum ripeness guessed wrong on picking dates and waited too long.
Howard,
I think our palates are not dissimilar, and I have no problem with the Haut Bailly 2009
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#40 Post by Gary Ahearn » March 25th, 2019, 10:12 am

And stating the obvious, different wine experts have different palates/different opinions.

Case in point--the 2009 Troplong-Mondot. Here is Neal Martin's recent note.

The 2009 Troplong-Mondot has a completely over the top, gregarious and raisin-like bouquet that frankly comes as no surprise given the philosophy of the estate at this time. The palate is sweet on the entry with candied black cherries, cassis and cough candy, unlike Bordeaux in some ways with a rather cloying and alcoholic finish. Now it seems like an anachronism. 2020 - 2032
Score: 90 Neal Martin, vinous.com, March 2019

Two more reviews of the same wine . . . at the same tasting event:

Deep garnet colored, the 2009 Troplong Mondot bounds out of the glass with plum preserves, spice cake, mincemeat and potpourri scents plus suggestions of exotic spices, incense and a waft of balsamic. Full-bodied, super rich, concentrated and plushly textured, the hedonic fruit possesses loads of spicy layers and a very long and decadent finish. If you love wines you can stand a spoon up in, you're gonna go nuts over this extravagant beauty. 2019 - 2040.
Score: 96 Lisa Perrotti-Brown MW, Wine Advocate (241), March 2019

And,

Although this is very ripe and rich with a generous body and a slew of black fruit aromas it’s also elegant and poised. The bitter chocolate character is more restrained than in many modern-style Right Bank wines of this period and there's a lovely balance of lively acidity with fine dry tannins at the complex finish. Drink or hold. (Horizontal Tasting, London, 2019)
Score: 96 Stuart Pigott, JamesSuckling.com, March 2019

And finally a Nov 2017 note from Jeb Dunnuck:
Pure perfection in a glass, the incredible 2009 Troplong Mondot offers off the chart notes of blackcurrants, licorice, truffles and saddle leather that just soar from the glass. This is a big, ripe, incredibly sexy wine that hits the palate with a huge texture, building, ripe tannin, no weight, and a finish that just won't quit. Utterly brilliant stuff, it's slightly more approachable than the 2005, but both of these vintages play in the same style. Drink bottles anytime over the coming two to three decades. Bravo! 2018 - 2048. 100 Points.

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Howard Cooper
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Re: Farr Vintners retastes 2009 Bordeaux 10 years on.

#41 Post by Howard Cooper » March 25th, 2019, 10:39 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 25th, 2019, 9:46 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
March 25th, 2019, 8:21 am
David Glasser wrote:
March 24th, 2019, 6:45 pm
I hear you Howard. The 2009s are on the low acid side. Could be an issue for aging, but they shouldn’t be crapping out at only 10 years.
As I said, the ones where the only issue is low acid are rich wines that to me taste flabby but others like you enjoy. My guess is the ones crapping out at only 10 years were the ones made from overripe grapes. My guess is that some producers looking for maximum ripeness guessed wrong on picking dates and waited too long.
Howard,
I think our palates are not dissimilar, and I have no problem with the Haut Bailly 2009
I have not tasted the 2009 Haut Bailly and so cannot comment (David commented on the Haut Bailly, not me). But, of the 2009s I have tasted, I think the only one I have liked was the Pichon Lalande. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145167&p=2371649&hi ... s#p2371649 Even at estates whose wine I really like (e.g., Montrose), I found the 2009 to be flappy (but not overripe).
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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