Looks like the organic trend isn't really catching on in California

Interesting data published today by the American Association of Wine Economists:

Ugh. Thanks (?) for posting this. Seriously, this is very interesting. And somewhat surprising given the general assumptions concerning New World (particularly Cali) versus Old World with respect to such things.

You assumed more pesticide usage in Europe? I guess my assumption was just the opposite. There’s more huge scale grape farming in the US, and there is still a lot of vineyard land in Europe that’s been in the family for centuries and is managed quite conservatively.

In general, there’s a pretty high level of environmental awareness in Europe. Witness the ban on GMO crops. Regular supermarkets in the UK had organic sections 20 years ago – long before those became common here. Not to mention the whole biodynamic thing.

Make Monsanto proud!

John, you see that piece somewhere recently about glyphosate levels in wines? Even organics can’t rid themselves of it.

No, don’t know about that.

There is huge acreage that is not a source of fine, boutique wine. Not sure you can separate the vineyards we talk about here from the much larger vineyards.

Fake news.

Doesn’t California fancy itself as being so superior in that realm too?

The population at large, perhaps, but certainly not the agribusiness industry.

I remember attending an interview of an entomologist during one of the medfly sprayings circa 1990, when the state was helicopter spraying wide swaths of residential neighborhoods to eliminate a fly that was bad for oranges. He said it was ironic because no medfly had ever been found in an orange grove. Why? Because the farmers used so many pesticides. The bug only turned up in residential areas, which hadn’t been chemically treated out the wazoo. The citrus industry was so powerful that it even got Jerry Brown in his liberal first term in 1981 to spray urban areas for medflies.

Yes, its a problem in CA only, I guess, and judging by the price per ton in the sea of Thompson grape fields, or 3BC type wines no one here even thinks about. When was the last time anyone here bought 3BC or some such?a

“We’re going to stop using glyphosate, that’s certain—it’s what society wants. But it’s not clear exactly when,” said Bernard Farges of Bordeaux, president of the CNAOC wine and spirits association.

“We can move very, very quickly to quit using glyphosate, as quickly as we get state aid,” added Jean-Marie Barillere of the CNIV national winemakers’ association.

As soon and as long s the government pays for that. Yeah, I can see it happening soon. Got it. /s

Frank, in the prior thread on the subject you indicated that you were in the vineyard with some small producer in Champagne when both of you observed adjoining vineyard being sprayed. I am curious, neither of you thought that winds would not bring some of that spray over to the small vineyard you were visiting? Really? I’d bet it would test positive for whatever was sprayed that day at the neighbor’s place. In smaller quantities, probably, but still. Who cares if the producer you were visiting does not use chems when his neighbor does.

Really tired of hearing this CA bad, everyone else is good mantra. Repeat it as often as you like, but then pay good attention to details before repeating it again. Why do people forget that most of what’s used here in CA has been developed and used in Old World first, what’s with this “I see nottin” attitude when the facts stare you in the face? Read the link posted, the French openly say that they will change AS LONG AS SOMEONE PAYS FOR IT. And I did not hear Macron so far say he will.

Not wine specific, but Europe in general (and France and Italy in particular) use more pesticides per arable land than the US.

One reason for that is, yes, Monsanto: the US uses more GMO than the EU, which reduces the need for pesticides.

This is true, the point of some GMO crops is to reduce or eliminate the need for pesticide treatment.

Also, many plants naturally produce their own pesticides, and their production of those pesticides may sharply increase when they are attacked by pests, and those (which of course aren’t regulated or measured in any way) are sometimes carcinogenic or have other negative health consequences to the consumer.

https://archive.org/stream/DietaryPesticides99.99AllNatural/​%20Dietary%20Pesticides%20(99.99%20all%20natural)_djvu.txt

“When plants are stressed or damaged, such as during a pest attack, they may greatly increase their natural pesticide levels, occasionally to levels that can be acutely toxic to humans. We estimate that Americans eat about 1.5 g of natural pesticides per person per day, which is about 10,000 times more than they eat of synthetic pesticide residues.”

My point only being that these issues are much more complex and intertwined than they seem from the sloganeering and posturing common to the issue from all sides.

Glyphosate is in nearly every consumable AG product, not just wine, due to ground water in big AG areas. Things grown outside of big AG areas are much less of an issue in this regard. That’s because Glyphosate breaks down into several ‘inert’ things once it’s in the ground…but the ground can only ‘process’ so much, and once in the ground water glyphosate breaks down very slowly. The big AG areas use massive amounts of Glyphosate on some crops, overwhelming the grounds ability to break it down…contributing a large percent of the problem (glyphosate in ground water) in those areas. If what you consume comes from a low - moderate glyphosate usage area it won’t be an issue since it’s being broken down completely, in the ground where it should.

Nearly all the fine/high end wine regions would qualify as low-glyphosate usage areas, so those wines wouldn’t have glyphosate in them. It’s the lower end wine grown in the major ag areas that are affected. The Sierra Foothills, and other mountainous areas, are esp good in this regard (i.e. low amount of chemical cross contamination, not just glyphosate, due to ground water), since their water is completely isolated from the other Ag areas

My initial thought as well. Given how much acreage goes into bulk wine, it’s not too shocking. Another reason to support growers and wineries that charge a bit more, but do it right*

*subjective.

Eric, thank you. My thoughts are the same. I won’t buy Champagne anymore unless there is a practice by the winery to not use this crap. Call me dogmatic or whatever else we want, but this is my personal belief.

Greg, you are correct. It was during my vineyard walk in the Aube with Aurelien Gerbais. The adjacent vineyard was spraying and it’s unfortunate that this adjacency occurs where philosophies differ. I respect Aurelien for doing away with the stuff and at least going his own way. So too has Benoit Marguet, Frederic Miniere, Cedric Mousse, Hugues Godme, Dominique Laurent…the list goes on and I am pleased to see it keep growing, too.

We can all choose to eat and practice whatever habits we wish. I keep almost an exclusively organic food supply in my kitchen, as much as I can. It may not be perfectly clean of other ground water influences but I can make an individual choice to not support brands or producers of my food who spray stuff that I wish to keep out of my body.

Interesting. Thanks.

That would obviously be a big factor with wheat and corn. But I wonder how relevant that is to pesticide use in vineyards, which in Europe tend to be on land that’s not so great for growing other things.

I wasn’t championing one or the other, merely noting that there is a trade-off between GMO crops and pesticide use. European consumers seem to be much more sensitive to GMO food products than Americans, so it is not surprising to see higher levels of pesticide use. Reducing both is, of course, another alternative, but the result would be less food produced locally and either higher food prices or more imported food. There is a reason that fine wine areas have better agricultural practices, as several growers have noted in this thread: the end consumers (us) are relatively price-insensitive.

Frank, I agree with you. When I purchased my property nearly 20 years ago, I was shocked to see a strip of orange and yellow around my rose bushes (and a line leading from one to another, and even across the yard to another set of rose bushes), in the vineyard, along the property line - everywhere the previous owner/property manager did not want “weeds.” I knew absolutely nothing about growing roses or grapes, but any intelligent person could surmise that something was very wrong there. I was a weekender at the time, so imagine my shock and dismay to see this treatment of the land I had just purchased, when I arrived each Friday night. I put an end to that immediately, although I did not fully understand what was being used and why. It looked wrong, and it was wrong.

For years now, the fertilizer I use is organic fish emulsion. Expensive? Yes, for sure. But the vineyard loves it, and I like knowing I am doing what I can to create a product that is safer than many. I grow many vegetables, as well, and fruits. No inorganic sprays in use - and if bugs infiltrate, I remove the plant.

But the cry is out there: why does wine cost so much? Because organic farming is expensive. Check with your vegetable sources and, to the point here, with the wineries you purchase from, what are their methods of farming?

Frank,

In full agreement. I was simply pointing out how some on the board usually react, mindlessly so, IMO, based on their prejudices. When you posted about your experience in the FRENCH vineyard, one of the posts immediately after, and in reaction, was “Stop buying CA wine!” HUH!?

As Eric L. pointed out, and something I wanted to point out up above as well, its not only the wind, but then soil retention of chems that eventually also leads to seepage into adjoining lands. Sure, one can try to limit it in his/her vineyard, but not always avoid it altogether. If at all, given the wide use all over the place and proximity of vineyards, in general, in any given region.

Merrill, good for you. I respect the shift you made and why you did it. I do not mind paying more for my wines if I know that there was a higher level of care used to make them, both for the people who had to work in the environment in which the grapes were grown, as well as the time and effort to care for it from vineyard to bottle.