JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

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JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#1 Post by Joe Mendez » March 3rd, 2019, 11:24 am

I'm new to burgundies and recently tasted a JF Mugnier Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Clos de la Marechale 2014 and I enjoyed it a lot, upon further research it appears Chevillon (Les Vaucrains) is also a top producer in St. Georges, are their styles similar, or will the tasting experience be a lot different than the Mugnier Marechale? I'm trying to decide how to allocate my purchases as these are readily available (even older vintages) and are not crazy expensive
I've also read that Dujac produced a Nuits St. Georges wine (1er Cru Aux Cras) in 2016, never had any Dujac but would this be at the same level after some years?

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#2 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am

The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#3 Post by William Kelley » March 3rd, 2019, 11:34 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
It certainly isn't my intention to disparage Dujac, indeed on the contrary, but I'm not sure it's a fait accompli that a Dujac Cras will inevitably surpass a wine from Mugnier or Chevillon. The Clos de la Marechale can be brilliant and Chevillon's Vaucrains is one of the finest wines produced in NSG.

I agree, however, that all three will be very different.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#4 Post by Joe Mendez » March 3rd, 2019, 11:39 am

I really enjoyed the Mugnier, it didn't have much depth or long finish but had a great nose and was tasty.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#5 Post by Gerhard P. » March 3rd, 2019, 11:39 am

William Kelley wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:34 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
It certainly isn't my intention to disparage Dujac, indeed on the contrary, but I'm not sure it's a fait accompli that a Dujac Cras will inevitably surpass a wine from Mugnier or Chevillon. The Clos de la Marechale can be brilliant and Chevillon's Vaucrains is one of the finest wines produced in NSG.

I agree, however, that all three will be very different.
I don´t see Dujac´s NSG Les Cras as one of his top wines ...
while Chevillon and (since 2004/05) Mugnier are major NSG producers.
However, all styles are quite different.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#6 Post by Kenneth Brown » March 3rd, 2019, 11:43 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
I can't agree that the Dujac is a better wine, although it certainly could be in some vintages. Chevilion's Vaucrains is top notch and it drinks more like a Vosne e Premier Cru and a nice one at that. Also anything that Mugnier makes is good to great and while this is admittedly a big step down from his top vineyards,, it can still be really good. If I had to choose an order of preference without considering price, I would go 1. Chevilion's 2. Dujac 3.Mugnier from those vineyards.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#7 Post by Kenneth Brown » March 3rd, 2019, 11:46 am

Kenneth Brown wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:43 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
I can't agree that the Dujac is a better wine, although it certainly could be in some vintages. Chevillon's Vaucrains is top notch and it drinks more like a Vosne e Premier Cru and a nice one at that. Also anything that Mugnier makes is good to great and while this is admittedly a big step down from his top vineyards,, it can still be really good. If I had to choose an order of preference without considering price, I would go 1. Chevillon 2. Dujac 3.Mugnier from those vineyards.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#8 Post by Craig G » March 3rd, 2019, 11:47 am

FWIW that Dujac Cras is Dujac P&F, not Domaine.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#9 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 3rd, 2019, 12:34 pm

Kenneth Brown wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:43 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
I can't agree that the Dujac is a better wine, although it certainly could be in some vintages. Chevilion's Vaucrains is top notch and it drinks more like a Vosne e Premier Cru and a nice one at that. Also anything that Mugnier makes is good to great and while this is admittedly a big step down from his top vineyards,, it can still be really good. If I had to choose an order of preference without considering price, I would go 1. Chevilion's 2. Dujac 3.Mugnier from those vineyards.
Different strokes and all.

I would never compare Chevillon Vaucrains to a Vosne. It is signature Nuits to my taste.

But to the OP’s question, we seem to all agree that the wines will be very different.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#10 Post by Alan Rath » March 3rd, 2019, 12:43 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 12:34 pm
I would never compare Chevillon Vaucrains to a Vosne. It is signature Nuits to my taste.
+1

Furthermore, I almost always find Chevillon's Vaucrains to be noticeably riper than the other wines. For me, Les Cailles is the sweet spot of their portfolio.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#11 Post by Larry Link » March 3rd, 2019, 1:11 pm

Both Marechale and Vaucrains are located in the Southern portion of NSG. In fact Marechale is a big vineyard technically in Premeaux. Mugnier produces 150 barrels of this wine, it’s by far his biggest holding. I’ve never had a really sublime rendition of this wine, whereas I’ve had a few from Chevillon’s Vaucrains that have hit high notes. As Alan says, it’s one of Chevillon’s riper cuvées.

Neither wine is Vosne-like as others have stated. To me the most Vosne vineyard in NSG is Boudots, not surprisingly since the vineyard is on the Northern end of NSG and borders VR. Meo And Leroy make a very Vosne version of the vineyard.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#12 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » March 3rd, 2019, 1:22 pm

Joe,

There are a lot more producers in the Nuits, it's a fairly large area. You should do some more exploring.

Gouges is another top tier producer you should investigate.

There are many, many others.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#13 Post by Joe Mendez » March 3rd, 2019, 4:50 pm

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 1:22 pm
Joe,

There are a lot more producers in the Nuits, it's a fairly large area. You should do some more exploring.

Gouges is another top tier producer you should investigate.

There are many, many others.
Thank you, I'll have to explore other producers like Gouges.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#14 Post by Doug Lee » March 3rd, 2019, 5:15 pm

Joe,

Both Mugnier Maréchale and Chevillon Vaucrains are terrific and I am happy to have examples of both resting in the cellar. Both can be reasonably priced (realizing it’s all relative). The vineyards are quite different (Vaucrains is ranked by some second only to Les St. Georges) and the producers have different signatures, although trying to tease out what is nature and what is nurture would be difficult. I would certainly acquire both if you can, just to see the differences. Agree, Gouges is exemplary and if you are exploring NSG this house is incredibly important.

Agree with Alan - Les Cailles is distinctive in NSG and my personal favorite among the Chevillon offerings.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#15 Post by Karl K » March 3rd, 2019, 7:22 pm

Joe

Is it possible you woukd fimd more depth or length in the Mugnier with more age?
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#16 Post by Joe Mendez » March 3rd, 2019, 8:55 pm

Karl K wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 7:22 pm
Joe

Is it possible you woukd fimd more depth or length in the Mugnier with more age?
Its possible, not 100% sure though, don't have experience with burgs or this producer. The 2014 I tasted I enjoyed, the nose was great.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#17 Post by Gerhard P. » March 4th, 2019, 12:13 am

Larry Link wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 1:11 pm
Both Marechale and Vaucrains are located in the Southern portion of NSG. In fact Marechale is a big vineyard technically in Premeaux. Mugnier produces 150 barrels of this wine, it’s by far his biggest holding. I’ve never had a really sublime rendition of this wine, whereas I’ve had a few from Chevillon’s Vaucrains that have hit high notes. As Alan says, it’s one of Chevillon’s riper cuvées.

Neither wine is Vosne-like as others have stated. To me the most Vosne vineyard in NSG is Boudots, not surprisingly since the vineyard is on the Northern end of NSG and borders VR. Meo And Leroy make a very Vosne version of the vineyard.
While Aux Boudots is no Vosne-R, it is IMHO the most Vosne-like NSG, and of high quality.
I´ll conduct a tasting in forthcoming June: Malconsorts vers. Boudots .... going to be interesting ...
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#18 Post by PCLIN » March 4th, 2019, 12:17 am

Based on my limited experiences with Chevillon Vaucrains, the Chevillon Vaucrains from 90s are very different from post-2000 Vaucrains, not as rustic now but probably still as rich and powerful.

Loved Mugnier’s style so I have bought quite a few vintages of Clos de la Marechale.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#19 Post by Jayson Cohen » March 5th, 2019, 9:03 pm

Alan Rath wrote: For me, Les Cailles is the sweet spot of their portfolio.
+1.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#20 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 5th, 2019, 9:19 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:03 pm
Alan Rath wrote: For me, Les Cailles is the sweet spot of their portfolio.
+1.
The Cailles is easier, more feminine and does not need as much age as Vaucrains. Good as they are, Vaucrains has greater potential,
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#21 Post by Joe Mendez » March 5th, 2019, 9:29 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:19 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:03 pm
Alan Rath wrote: For me, Les Cailles is the sweet spot of their portfolio.
+1.
The Cailles is easier, more feminine and does not need as much age as Vaucrains. Good as they are, Vaucrains has greater potential,
Does Chevillon and Mugnier use whole clusters on their NSG wines? New oak %?

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#22 Post by Gerhard P. » March 6th, 2019, 3:27 am

Joe Mendez wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:29 pm

Does Chevillon and Mugnier use whole clusters on their NSG wines? New oak %?
AFAIC both do not use whole clusters but practice (almost) 100% destemming ... (at least the sons Chevillon).
The major difference might be the much longer cuvaison at Chevillon (3-5 weeks) vers. 2-3 weeks at Mugnier.
Use of new oak is quite limited, maybe less so at Mugnier ...

Curiously the results are quite different ...
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#23 Post by Kent Comley » March 6th, 2019, 3:35 am

To me Mugnier produces feminine, red fruited, subtle wines whereas Chevillon produces wines with rustic grunt. They are poles apart stylistically. Both very good producers.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#24 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 6th, 2019, 4:29 am

Kent Comley wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 3:35 am
To me Mugnier produces feminine, red fruited, subtle wines whereas Chevillon produces wines with rustic grunt. They are poles apart stylistically. Both very good producers.
100% agreement, though Chevillon has gotten slightly more stylish in recent vintages...slightly.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#25 Post by William Kelley » March 6th, 2019, 5:18 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 3:27 am
Joe Mendez wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:29 pm

Does Chevillon and Mugnier use whole clusters on their NSG wines? New oak %?
AFAIC both do not use whole clusters but practice (almost) 100% destemming ... (at least the sons Chevillon).
The major difference might be the much longer cuvaison at Chevillon (3-5 weeks) vers. 2-3 weeks at Mugnier.
Use of new oak is quite limited, maybe less so at Mugnier ...

Curiously the results are quite different ...
I think Chevillon also ferment quite a bit hotter, up to 35 centigrade. And I do think they use some stems. But such statements are often misleading, since what goes on in practice in a winery is typically much more adaptive than what gets told to journalists and writers and written down in books—and that's without allowing for what gets lost in translation.

(I remember Cécile Tremblay complaining that she had told a visiting journalist that her press wine in 2015 was over 15% potential alcohol - the reason being that unfermented sugar is liberated when the wine is pressed, so the press wine is richer in sugar and consequently higher in alcohol. That press wine amounted to only a tiny fraction of her finished blends. The journalist dutifully wrote down that all her 2015s were over 15% alcohol!)
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#26 Post by Gerhard P. » March 6th, 2019, 5:44 am

William Kelley wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 5:18 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 3:27 am
Joe Mendez wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:29 pm

Does Chevillon and Mugnier use whole clusters on their NSG wines? New oak %?
AFAIC both do not use whole clusters but practice (almost) 100% destemming ... (at least the sons Chevillon).
The major difference might be the much longer cuvaison at Chevillon (3-5 weeks) vers. 2-3 weeks at Mugnier.
Use of new oak is quite limited, maybe less so at Mugnier ...

Curiously the results are quite different ...
I think Chevillon also ferment quite a bit hotter, up to 35 centigrade. And I do think they use some stems. But such statements are often misleading, since what goes on in practice in a winery is typically much more adaptive than what gets told to journalists and writers and written down in books—and that's without allowing for what gets lost in translation.

(I remember Cécile Tremblay complaining that she had told a visiting journalist that her press wine in 2015 was over 15% potential alcohol - the reason being that unfermented sugar is liberated when the wine is pressed, so the press wine is richer in sugar and consequently higher in alcohol. That press wine amounted to only a tiny fraction of her finished blends. The journalist dutifully wrote down that all her 2015s were over 15% alcohol!)
All true - and fine winemakers also adapt to the vintage and the site ... so it isn´t always the same ...

Moreover Mugnier´s Clos de la Marechale is the Southernmost NSG vineyard, the soil is definitely lighter, as also shown by the neighbour Clos L´Arlot
and the Clos des Grandes Vignes on the other side of the street ... while vineyards in the center - Les Saint-Georges, Vaucrains, Cailles, Poirets - usually show more structure ... Vaucrains for me is the most sauvage of all NSGs, while LSG is more solid and hard, has the greatest potential but needs the longest time ...
The Northern sites get more and more fruity and fragrant, but it´s still a contrast to a typical Vosne-R. ... only between Boudots and Malconsorts I see a certain resemblance ... but no NSG will ever have the perfume of a Chaumes, Clos des Reas, Les Suchots or Brulees ...

(not to school you William, it´s meant for all who don´t know exactly ...)
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#27 Post by Jayson Cohen » March 6th, 2019, 5:57 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:19 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:03 pm
Alan Rath wrote: For me, Les Cailles is the sweet spot of their portfolio.
+1.
The Cailles is easier, more feminine and does not need as much age as Vaucrains. Good as they are, Vaucrains has greater potential,
Debatable. It depends on what you mean by potential or your preferences. I consistently prefer Cailles from Chevillon, even at maturity of both, and have for about the last 15 years—to the extent that I stopped buying or backfilling Vaucrains in favor of Cailles. And as you suggest, it starts drinking sooner.

Chevillon LSG when it’s on is at another level.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#28 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 6th, 2019, 6:00 am

Joe Mendez wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:24 am
I'm new to burgundies and recently tasted a JF Mugnier Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Clos de la Marechale 2014 and I enjoyed it a lot, upon further research it appears Chevillon (Les Vaucrains) is also a top producer in St. Georges, are their styles similar, or will the tasting experience be a lot different than the Mugnier Marechale? I'm trying to decide how to allocate my purchases as these are readily available (even older vintages) and are not crazy expensive
I've also read that Dujac produced a Nuits St. Georges wine (1er Cru Aux Cras) in 2016, never had any Dujac but would this be at the same level after some years?
Joe - I would also strongly recommend Levi Dalton's podcast, I'll Drink to That. There's a recent episode with Jasper Morris, who has a wealth of knowledge on all things Burgundy, and if you dig through the archives, there is an episode with J.F. Mugnier, which I think will provide a lot of insights for you.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#29 Post by Peter Chiu » March 6th, 2019, 6:02 am

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#30 Post by Jay Miller » March 6th, 2019, 6:08 am

Joe Mendez wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 4:50 pm
Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 1:22 pm
Joe,

There are a lot more producers in the Nuits, it's a fairly large area. You should do some more exploring.

Gouges is another top tier producer you should investigate.

There are many, many others.
Thank you, I'll have to explore other producers like Gouges.
Just remember that prior to the style change (don't recall when that happened, 2010ish?) Gouges would take forever to come around except in ripe, lighter vintages (e.g., 1985 and 1997).
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#31 Post by Craig G » March 6th, 2019, 7:02 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 5:57 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:19 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:03 pm


+1.
The Cailles is easier, more feminine and does not need as much age as Vaucrains. Good as they are, Vaucrains has greater potential,
Debatable. It depends on what you mean by potential or your preferences. I consistently prefer Cailles from Chevillon, even at maturity of both, and have for about the last 15 years—to the extent that I stopped buying or backfilling Vaucrains in favor of Cailles. And as you suggest, it starts drinking sooner.
I agree with this. For me, Cailles is the one to drink while you’re waiting for the Vaucrains to mature, and also after it does :-)

I had a 2002 Vaucrains last year and while it had softened I found it disturbingly overripe.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#32 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 6th, 2019, 9:01 am

On a different note I have both Denis and Maurice Chevillon Chaignots from the 1980s. Anybody know the relationship with Robert?
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#33 Post by William Kelley » March 6th, 2019, 9:59 am

Craig G wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 7:02 am
Jayson Cohen wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 5:57 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 9:19 pm


The Cailles is easier, more feminine and does not need as much age as Vaucrains. Good as they are, Vaucrains has greater potential,
Debatable. It depends on what you mean by potential or your preferences. I consistently prefer Cailles from Chevillon, even at maturity of both, and have for about the last 15 years—to the extent that I stopped buying or backfilling Vaucrains in favor of Cailles. And as you suggest, it starts drinking sooner.
I agree with this. For me, Cailles is the one to drink while you’re waiting for the Vaucrains to mature, and also after it does :-)

I had a 2002 Vaucrains last year and while it had softened I found it disturbingly overripe.
Since in top vintages we are talking about maybe the difference between a 6o-year wine and a 75-year wine, the longevity point seems a little moot for most people's purposes. While I admit I have a special fondness for Cailles, I buy Vaucrains too (most recently reserving some mags of the 2017, my daughter's birth year). It's a matter of context - and vintage. There are times when the structure and muscularity of Vaucrains hit the spot, and others where the charm and suppleness combined with amplitude of Cailles has the edge. For what it's worth, Bertrand thinks of Chaignots and Cailles as a pair: the Cailles being the larger-scaled and more powerful of the two, but both sharing a certain elegance and charm.

Incidentally, the Chevillon 2016s are simply incredible if you can find any bottles. Given the unusual levels of concentration they will require patience but tasting them today the quality is impossible to miss.
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#34 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » March 6th, 2019, 11:30 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 9:01 am
On a different note I have both Denis and Maurice Chevillon Chaignots from the 1980s. Anybody know the relationship with Robert?
Denis is Robert's older son. He bottled wines under his own name in the '80s-90s.....In 1990 or 1992...I visited and asked who "Denis" was....and a guy in shorts sitting against the wall said "c'est moi"....Denis and Bertrand run the Chevillon estate and have, since 2001. It's all under the family domaine at this point.

I believe Maurice is Robert's cousin...and is the son of Robert's late uncle, Georges. Georges used to bottle his own wines, too...and I once bought a bunch of '83 LSG thinking it was Robert....before i knew of the importance of name precision in Burgundy.

FWIW, I think the top 3 at Robert...LSG, Cailles and Vaucrains all have their relative merits. I don't look at any of them as always being superior to the others. When I was visiting and buying in the '90s and later....I never bought Cailles, as I thought it had a Rhone-like, black peppery aspect that I didn't really like. I later started to really like it and buy it...I learned my lesson. It is different, for sure. But, very exotic, too...

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Mark Golodetz
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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#35 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 6th, 2019, 11:47 am

Thanks Stuart
Any thoughts on the quality of the wines?
ITB
I could agree with you, but then we both would be wrong.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#36 Post by James Billy » March 6th, 2019, 6:50 pm

It's not 'Robert Chevillon' anymore. It's 'Denis & Bertrand Chevillon.'

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#37 Post by Joe Mendez » March 6th, 2019, 9:39 pm

I purchased a bottle of the Chevillon Vaucrains 2012 and Cailles 2015 to taste ( very young), if I like them I will acquire a few more bottles to cellar.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#38 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » March 7th, 2019, 10:07 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 11:47 am
Thanks Stuart
Any thoughts on the quality of the wines?
Denis' wine, I'd bet was made by Robert.

Maurice's is different. That's all I know, Mark.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#39 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » March 7th, 2019, 10:10 am

James Billy wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 6:50 pm
It's not 'Robert Chevillon' anymore. It's 'Denis & Bertrand Chevillon.'
Yes. In 2001, before a visit to the domaine, we bumped into Robert Chevillon and his wife having lunch at a place in Nuits (La Tour).

When I asked Bertrand if he felt like he was going to miss his father's guidance and reputation (usually a non-controversial question), he said "no, everyone gets his turn here".... Didn't seem like loads of reverence or fear. Bertrand is a good guy..and very confident.

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#40 Post by James Billy » March 7th, 2019, 3:06 pm

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 10:10 am
James Billy wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 6:50 pm
It's not 'Robert Chevillon' anymore. It's 'Denis & Bertrand Chevillon.'
Yes. In 2001, before a visit to the domaine, we bumped into Robert Chevillon and his wife having lunch at a place in Nuits (La Tour).

When I asked Bertrand if he felt like he was going to miss his father's guidance and reputation (usually a non-controversial question), he said "no, everyone gets his turn here".... Didn't seem like loads of reverence or fear. Bertrand is a good guy..and very confident.
Agree!

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#41 Post by Joe Mendez » March 10th, 2019, 9:59 pm

Kenneth Brown wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:43 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
I can't agree that the Dujac is a better wine, although it certainly could be in some vintages. Chevilion's Vaucrains is top notch and it drinks more like a Vosne e Premier Cru and a nice one at that. Also anything that Mugnier makes is good to great and while this is admittedly a big step down from his top vineyards,, it can still be really good. If I had to choose an order of preference without considering price, I would go 1. Chevilion's 2. Dujac 3.Mugnier from those vineyards.
Does anyone know if the Dujac Les Cras is whole cluster?

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Re: JF Mugnier vs Chevillon Styles - newbie question

#42 Post by Joe Mendez » March 16th, 2019, 11:07 pm

Kenneth Brown wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:43 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 11:28 am
The two producers have markedly different styles, and Vaucrains as a site produces much more rustic and powerful wines than the Clos de la Marechale.

Dujac is top tier...a step up from the other two wines...and much more expensive.
I can't agree that the Dujac is a better wine, although it certainly could be in some vintages. Chevilion's Vaucrains is top notch and it drinks more like a Vosne e Premier Cru and a nice one at that. Also anything that Mugnier makes is good to great and while this is admittedly a big step down from his top vineyards,, it can still be really good. If I had to choose an order of preference without considering price, I would go 1. Chevilion's 2. Dujac 3.Mugnier from those vineyards.

I tried all 3 already, and while very young, they are all great. However, I agree on the ordering, 1. Chevillon 2. Dujac 3. Mugnier, They are all great bottles, but the Chevillon Cailles is step above in my opinion, Dujac was also interesting with earthy tones, and Mugnier was more riper.

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