2016 Les Carmes Haut-Brion --- WTF?!?!

Browsing 2016 Bdx on K&L when I noticed this listed at $179.99.

What the hell?!?!? That pricing is waaaaaay out of whack, no?

Points, baby, points.

Leve99

PS. Wally’s has it for $125

PPS. An old go-to favorite is now gone.

Well, now I know what a Marie-Jeanne (2,25l) is.

have you tried it?

Ha, not yet. Did grab some 375s log ago before prices went nuts.

If I just buy it and white out “Les Carmes” on the label, I actually save about $500 a bottle.

Brian-
I had been a fan of Cos d’estournel and had tried every vintage from 1982 onward, visited the estate to taste the 2000 out of barrel, and bought a case every year. Between the 2002 and 2003 vintage the price almost tripled. I’m not sure what was the Prats’ thinking behind such a giant price increase, but I never bought again. Shame, as I really used to like their wines an awful lot (the 93 is still an all-time favorite QPR).

Why is it out of whack? 2016 Carmes Haut Brion is one of the top wines of the vintage and the production is not that large. It was a giveaway as a future for about $75. Today, after others gave it equally high-marks, the price jumped. I gave it a monster score, as Alfret knows Learn all about Les Carmes Haut Brion, The Complete Guide

Frankly, the wine deserves to sell for over $200 today. I am sure it will hit that price once the wine is on the shelf.

This could get interesting.

What did the 15 retail for? Or the 14?

Has the ‘quality’ jumped that much or is this score related?

Cheers.

When quality jumps, the score should as well

Jeff,

Not necessarily. Sometimes something is just ‘noticed’ when in the past it had not been. Or perhaps scarcity drives this stuff. I wish it was as simple as ‘what’s inside the bottle’ but expectations and other things have so much to do with this . . .

Cheers

I bought a lot of the 2014 for $50. When prices started jumped for 2015 and 2016, backfilled on vintages built in a style more stuiable for me, at great prices. I grabbed a bunch of 2000s with a high of $80. I grabbed a bunch of 2010 for $56 ($70 at Total Wine less the 20% coupon I get from time to time). B21 still has the 2010 for $70. It’s a good buy.

Under Leve’s nudging, and primarily so that I can try it and tell him how much I hate the change that has been done to this once more classic estate , I grabbed a bunch of 375s on futures for $35 each.

The price actually is not surprising considering the amount of money that has been thrown into this Chateau by the new owners, and its modernism, and evidently the stylistic shift along with the lines of some many other estates chasing the critics, including Figeac, prices rise commensurately.

If this were a 99-point wine to me, in a style that I loved, I’d pay the $125 all day long. That would be exceedingly fairly priced. I think Jeff is right on that point.

This wine was great in the previous century. I still have some 86’s that drink wonderfully now, but unlike a lot of wines from that vintage have been delicious since at least 2000. The '99, from a mediocre year drank well from 2005. But what has happened does not bode well IMHO. I’ll be waiting on the country lawyer’s report.

See exhibit A, below. From UGC event in January (my 30th taste and just before I switched to take a “break” with the Sauternes):

"2016 Chateau Les Carmes-Haut Brion

Pretty. That’s the word for this bouquet. Real leather component with black raspberry and black plum. Compelling. What a nice change of pace—very fresh indeed with tannins and acid well integrated. Cranberry and redcurrant, lots of interest and a chance to grow into something very good (although the price, at C$375 a bottle is a bit crazy now)."

I have a lone bottle of 98 that I am looking forward to tasting in a year and a half.

Yea that '99 was really nice! I drank that small stash way too fast.

Prats actually did us all a favor by pricing us out, because starting with the 2002 vintage Cos jumped the shark stylistically and sold its soul to the gods of modernity.

So how many did you buy?

I drank the '99 way too fast as well. It was exceedingly ingratiating.

Shocking price increase, that’s all. The increase is so massive, I legitimately was wondering if it was mis-priced. I’ve only tried the '14 of this wine, a couple weeks ago, and I didn’t love it. No way in hell am I going to drop $180 on the '16 before tasting.

It was one of my favorites at the UGC tasting. I bought some on futures about a year ago for $85 at K&L untasted. Now I’m glad l did.