Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

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John Telford
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Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#1 Post by John Telford » February 16th, 2019, 7:24 am

Not including Sociando, which Bordeaux producers have the most consistent flavor profile 1982-2017. Any other than Sociando have the same wine maker? If it has had a new consulting team in last 10 years please rule out! Again, please no first or second growths. Please explain why you picked them! Thank you.

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Julian Marshall
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#2 Post by Julian Marshall » February 16th, 2019, 9:07 am

I'm not sure what sort of wine you're after - I would have said Gruaud, which to me always tastes like Gruaud, but you don't want any seconds. So I'll put my head over the parapet and say Boyd Cantenac, Haut-Bages Libéral and Lagrange. Their style may have changed a little and of course they don't taste precisely the same from one vintage to the next, but I think the basic taste is constant. I picked them because I've tried most vintages since 1982 and find them to be very consistent.

If you're looking for something a little less mainstream, then Bel Air Marquis d'Aligre would be a good example - same owner, same style, same taste.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#3 Post by John Telford » February 16th, 2019, 9:30 am

Thanks Julian. "What i am trying to assertain is..?. if i am buying a bordeaux today, which ones are most likely to age and develope consistent with their past profile?" Clearly Sociando does that (same winemaker, same philosophy, etc). I agree w some of your picks below. Thank you.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#4 Post by Matthew King » February 16th, 2019, 9:41 am

Leoville Las Cases
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#5 Post by LarryA » February 16th, 2019, 9:42 am

Lynch Bages and Pichon Baron for me.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#6 Post by Jud Reis » February 16th, 2019, 9:57 am

I would add Montrose as well.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#7 Post by John Davis » February 16th, 2019, 10:21 am

Matthew King wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 9:41 am
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Agreed. Also have a soft spot for Palmer.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#8 Post by Neal.Mollen » February 16th, 2019, 10:26 am

Clos les Lunelles. All-oak last year, all oak this year, all oak next year. The most dependable, consistent label in wine!
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#9 Post by Tom Reddick » February 16th, 2019, 10:31 am

Magdelaine (through 2011, the final vintage) and Montrose. Maybe Pichon Lalande? I have not had many vintages post-2000 of that one.

Almost every other one I can think of has evolved in some key way, and in some cases gone back and forth a time or two during that period.

I am answering this question within the literal confines of addressing whether I think there have been any fundamental changes at all that are evident in glass, so to speak, without regard to whether those changes are for the better or not. Palmer is a good example of where I think the result in the glass has changed back and forth during this time period, seldom for ill and lately for good- but changed all the same.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#10 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 16th, 2019, 10:46 am

Leoville Barton
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#11 Post by Kelly Walker » February 16th, 2019, 10:52 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 10:26 am
Clos les Lunelles. All-oak last year, all oak this year, all oak next year. The most dependable, consistent label in wine!
😆
Tell us how you really feel about Clos des Lunelles Neal! 🤢

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#12 Post by John Telford » February 16th, 2019, 11:08 am

I kind of like the Marquis d'Aligre concept = very tradtional, same winemaker, high quality, little if no new consulting meddling. Montrose seems very akin as well!

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Pat Martin
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#13 Post by Pat Martin » February 16th, 2019, 12:51 pm

Branaire Ducru.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#14 Post by David Glasser » February 16th, 2019, 12:59 pm

Agree with the two Léovilles and Montrose already mentioned.

I suspect most or all properties have had changes in winemakers or consultants over the 35 year period specified in the OP. But those changes can be made with an eye to maintaining the traditional style.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#15 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 16th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Montrose
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Magdelaine
Marquis d’Aligre

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Pat Martin
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#16 Post by Pat Martin » February 16th, 2019, 2:20 pm

There’s certainly not many though.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#17 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 16th, 2019, 2:41 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 2:20 pm
There’s certainly not many though.
Figeac and Conseillante recently flipping was a huge surprise to me.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#18 Post by B Thorne » February 16th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Easy answer for me.

Lynch Bages
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#19 Post by johngonzales » February 16th, 2019, 2:50 pm

David Glasser wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 12:59 pm
Agree with the two Léovilles and Montrose already mentioned.

I suspect most or all properties have had changes in winemakers or consultants over the 35 year period specified in the OP. But those changes can be made with an eye to maintaining the traditional style.
But the o.p. did disqualify second growths. I am not sure about consistency in winemaking. Not among Forster or second growth (or classs for St Em.). I find Palmer , Lynch Bages pretty consistent and while more modern Peby Faugères and La Dominique are consistent buys for me.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#20 Post by Kris Patten » February 16th, 2019, 5:30 pm

Pontet Canet. Speaks of Pauillac and vintage each year, especially the run since 1996.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#21 Post by JIMCOH » February 16th, 2019, 6:28 pm

I would say that Ch. Talbot deserves consideration.
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Pat Martin
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#22 Post by Pat Martin » February 16th, 2019, 6:31 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 2:41 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 2:20 pm
There’s certainly not many though.
Figeac and Conseillante recently flipping was a huge surprise to me.
For sure. And the likes of Canon, Lanessan, Lagune (back in 2004), Carmes Haut Brion, etc.

What about Grand Puy Lacoste for consistency?
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#23 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 16th, 2019, 6:33 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 6:31 pm
\
What about Grand Puy Lacoste for consistency?
Great call!

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#24 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 16th, 2019, 6:43 pm

VCC hasn’t been mentioned.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#25 Post by Chris T. » February 16th, 2019, 7:06 pm

Matthew King wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 9:41 am
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Didn’t they change owners in the past ten years or so?
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#26 Post by PCLIN » February 16th, 2019, 7:36 pm

LLC but that’s 2nd Growth.

Since 2005, my pick would be d’Issan.

‘82 to ‘17, Lynch Bages,
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#27 Post by Mont Stern » February 16th, 2019, 8:19 pm

I would add La Mission Haut Brion. I agree with many of the prior choices.

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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#28 Post by Craig G » February 16th, 2019, 9:05 pm

Based on the OP’s criteria, I would choose Lynch Bages, but I’ll put in a plug for Gloria in a lower price range. I’m drinking the 1981 and 2008 tonight. The older one is beautifully mature and the younger one bold and tannic, but you can see the resemblance.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#29 Post by rick m » February 16th, 2019, 11:04 pm

for me....

leoville las cases
lynch bages
pichon llande
pichon baron
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#30 Post by Gerhard P. » February 17th, 2019, 12:21 am

Croizet-Bages... consistently mediocre .... !
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#31 Post by Ben M a n d l e r » February 18th, 2019, 10:57 am

Grand Puy Lacoste
Leoville Barton
Lynch Bages

I have a personal soft spot for Rauzan Segla, which has been very consistent for me on a handful of vintages since the mid-90s.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#32 Post by Ian A » February 18th, 2019, 11:28 am

Cantemerle, DDC and Leoville-Barton
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Pat Martin
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#33 Post by Pat Martin » February 18th, 2019, 12:53 pm

I was going to put Cantemerle down as well, and in the grand scheme it has certainly held the line, but starting with the 2005 vintage I think they amped the recipe up a tick. I’m still a fan though. Not sure if others have had the same experience.
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Pat Martin
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#34 Post by Pat Martin » February 18th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Leoville Barton for sure though.
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Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

#35 Post by Bill G » February 18th, 2019, 12:57 pm

    D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
    February 16th, 2019, 10:46 am
    Leoville Barton

    +1
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    Re: Most consistent non first growth boardeax?

    #36 Post by Stas Medvedev » February 19th, 2019, 12:56 am

    John Telford wrote:
    February 16th, 2019, 7:24 am
    Not including Sociando, which Bordeaux producers have the most consistent flavor profile 1982-2017. Any other than Sociando have the same wine maker? If it has had a new consulting team in last 10 years please rule out! Again, please no first or second growths. Please explain why you picked them! Thank you.
    John, you might want to check out my recent research on Left Bank Bordeaux. I think the rating I came up with is your go to list.
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