Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

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KyleC
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Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#1 Post by KyleC » February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm

So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#2 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 11th, 2019, 1:50 pm

It looks like Brane Cantenac just might squeeze in there, on futures.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#3 Post by Ron Slye » February 11th, 2019, 2:01 pm

Oddly, I just bought some 2016 Bdx, and literally have nothing in that range -- I have under that, and a few over that. Very odd. The closest at 49 is Phelan Segur. I can't seem to find my notes from the UGC SF tasting, where i think I liked some in that price range but for whatever reason did not bite.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#4 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 11th, 2019, 2:02 pm

SHL Blanc is now about $100 on futures - yikes.

But you might be able to find Johnathan Maltus's Clos Nardian blanc in that price range [if he even made it in 2016 - it's not showing up on Wine-Searcher right now].

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#5 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 11th, 2019, 2:09 pm

Ron Slye wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 2:01 pm
literally... nothing in that range... Very odd...
prod_mfi.png
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#6 Post by Josh H » February 11th, 2019, 2:11 pm

Chateau Monbousquet.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#7 Post by Craig G » February 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
I would expect that most of the wines in this range will appear in the market after release around the same price or slightly higher, so you probably don’t need to rush, and waiting would offer the opportunity to sample them.

I haven’t tasted the 16 but one chateau I like a lot at the low end of this range is Gloria.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#8 Post by Jim F » February 11th, 2019, 3:08 pm

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Well, to start, why 2016? 2015 is excellent also and may be a bit less $ for some wines, and 2014 is good with much better pricing. But for even for 2016, there are lots of choices in your price range. There are a couple threads here on WB from recent mass 2016 bordeaux tastings. Maybe those notes will help. If you liked Lynch Bages and Pontet Canet, then other wines from Pauillac may appeal,to you: Grand Puy Lacoste, and Clerc Milon I bought. Somewhat similat woould be St. Julien where the aforementioned Gloria is from, but also Branaire, Beychevelle, langoa barton, and for just a bit over your range, Leoville Barton. Other purported stars from the left bank include Rauzan Segla and Carmes Haut Brion. And there are many more.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#9 Post by DanielP » February 11th, 2019, 3:14 pm

Domaine de Chevalier, Brane-Cantenac, Langoa Barton. I thought all 3 represented good value in that price range (value for the vintage that is. Not sure it represented good value in an absolute sense). If you're buying Bordeaux in that range, I would also consider stretching out for Gazin, which was very nice.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#10 Post by Howard Cooper » February 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

Jim F wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:08 pm
KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Well, to start, why 2016? 2015 is excellent also and may be a bit less $ for some wines, and 2014 is good with much better pricing. But for even for 2016, there are lots of choices in your price range. There are a couple threads here on WB from recent mass 2016 bordeaux tastings. Maybe those notes will help. If you liked Lynch Bages and Pontet Canet, then other wines from Pauillac may appeal,to you: Grand Puy Lacoste, and Clerc Milon I bought. Somewhat similat woould be St. Julien where the aforementioned Gloria is from, but also Branaire, Beychevelle, langoa barton, and for just a bit over your range, Leoville Barton. Other purported stars from the left bank include Rauzan Segla and Carmes Haut Brion. And there are many more.
I agree that it is foolish for a newbie to Bordeaux to buy 2016s, esp. in this price range. Virtually all of the 2016s mentioned above need a decade or more of aging before they begin to show why people love Bordeaux. The OP should look for 2001s, 2004s, 2006s and 2008s in this price range that he can drink now.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#11 Post by YLee » February 11th, 2019, 3:46 pm

DanielP wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:14 pm
Domaine de Chevalier, Brane-Cantenac, Langoa Barton. I thought all 3 represented good value in that price range (value for the vintage that is. Not sure it represented good value in an absolute sense). If you're buying Bordeaux in that range, I would also consider stretching out for Gazin, which was very nice.
+1 on the Dom. Chevalier.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#12 Post by Mattstolz » February 11th, 2019, 3:47 pm

I would also echo the sentiment of going for 2014s instead of 2016s at the very least

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#13 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 11th, 2019, 3:47 pm

cantenac brown

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#14 Post by julianseersmartin » February 11th, 2019, 4:02 pm

Another vote for Domaine de Chevalier.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#15 Post by crickey » February 11th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Brane Cantenac ($70-90); Beausejour Becot ($75-80); Domaine de Chevalier ($70-75); Lagrange ($50); Malartic Lagraviere ($55-65); Malescot St. Exupery ($55-60). These are all 95 points or higher. Get down into the 93-94 point range and there are boatloads more in the price range: Gazin, Giscours, Larcis Ducasse and St. Pierre for starters. Some of the 94 pointers are actually less than your $50 cut-off (Labegorce, for instance). Yes, points aren't everything, but the point is that there are lots and lots of good wines in that price range for you to try.

If you were going to go a little above this range, but below the prices of the wines you listed, I would seek out Leoville Poyferre and Leoville Barton (the latter if you are young and have a long life ahead of you).
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#16 Post by Ian H » February 11th, 2019, 4:28 pm

I picked up some Branaire-Ducru and Gruaud Larose this weekend, both in that range, the latter close to being over. It's easy enough to backfill Bordeaux but I want to start laying some stuff down from strong vintages and sampling my own bottles purchased on release, in 5, 10, 15, 20 year intervals.

For my palate If I had to pick just one appellation I'd go Pauillac and look at stuff like GPL, Duhart-Milon, Pontet-Canet and Lynch-Bages but obviously above $75.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#17 Post by YLee » February 11th, 2019, 4:51 pm

Are you looking for BDX whites as well?
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#18 Post by Kris Patten » February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm

Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested, find what I like and what I'd like to age more and then buy 2014-2016 accordingly based on vintages.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#19 Post by KenL. » February 11th, 2019, 7:38 pm

Malescot St. Exupery
Labegorce
Lobel

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#20 Post by M. Meer » February 11th, 2019, 8:45 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm
Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested.
Speak it! In the last two years, I've had 8 bottles of Bordeaux, with the youngest being from 2005. I've learned that I like it with a certain age (or right on release), so I'm sitting on wine instead of enjoying it. Even if you were to go back to '08, '09, and '10, you will have a big head start compared to current releases. It helps to diversify. Bordeaux is practically indestructible.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#21 Post by Craig G » February 11th, 2019, 10:27 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm
Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested, find what I like and what I'd like to age more and then buy 2014-2016 accordingly based on vintages.
I totally agree about buying some earlier vintages, and I would include those from the 90s where prices allow (some 95/95/98 are still affordable), as well as some of the “off” vintages like 97 and 07. 02 and particularly 04 are also worth exploring. On the other hand I wouldn’t suggest ignoring 14 and 15 as they will have a short window where they should drink well and give some idea of what incoming Bdx may be like. I think it’s always worthwhile to drink some of the young wines as well as older to get an understanding of the area.

For someone starting to explore Bdx, 06, 08, 09, 10 and 12 are also interesting but could be in a difficult stage to drink now.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#22 Post by Hamish Wakes-Miller » February 12th, 2019, 1:54 am

Another vote for Domaine de Chevalier.
But also:
Meyney
Sociando Mallet
Brane Cantenac
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#23 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 12th, 2019, 3:52 am

Kris Patten wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm
Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested, find what I like and what I'd like to age more and then buy 2014-2016 accordingly based on vintages.
That's a great strategy, but before you buy recent stuff based on what wines you liked from past vintages, double-check whether anything about that Chateau has changed, in particular whether they brought in a new consultant or changed ownership, or even the modified the cepage. Lots of change going on now. For example, a 2000 Figeac may not taste anything like a 2016 Figeac.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#24 Post by Neal.Mollen » February 12th, 2019, 4:43 am

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Unlike Howard, I don't think it would be foolish to buy these wines "now," but it would be ill-advised if you are looking for something to drink in the near term. While they might be fun to drink in the year or so after delivery, they are soon going to go round the far side of the moon, out of contact for a decade at least and perhaps much more. If you are buying to lay them down for the fairly distant future, buying them early can be smart.

I also wonder whether "now" should mean right now, on futures. I am not really in touch with the 2016 market, but I doubt you will achieve any real savings by buying them now as opposed to waiting for them to be delivered in a couple of years.

As for specific wines, I leave that to others to advise. I bought only 3 (Calon, GPL, and Domaine de Chevalier) and only to ensure I could get them in 375 format. I have no idea whether they are your the strike zone.

If you want something to drink now and experiment with, I agree that 1999, 2001, and 2004 are likely better choices, and that you can get many 2014s off the shelves now for laying down at a price that probably is as good if not better than what comparable 2016s will bring. The 2014 Grand Puy Lacoste remains a really good value I think
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#25 Post by Howard Cooper » February 12th, 2019, 5:32 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 4:43 am

Unlike Howard, I don't think it would be foolish to buy these wines "now," but it would be ill-advised if you are looking for something to drink in the near term.
To be clear, I am not suggesting that nobody buy Bordeaux futures or even that younger people should not buy Bordeaux futures. That would be hypocritical as I bought my first Bordeaux futures (1981 Ducru) when I was 27. But, the OP says he is pretty new to Bordeaux. Don't you think he should get some idea of what he likes - does he like left bank or right bank, more traditional styled Bordeaux or Rolland specials, etc., etc., etc., before tying his money up in wine he won't be drinking for 10-15 years. How can you learn more about Bordeaux when the wines you are buying cannot be drunk yet? I mean, if he also is buying Bordeauxs to drink now, I guess I don't care that much (although the traditional vs. modern split is still important), but I don't know how one can learn about any wine region by just looking at wine bottles.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#26 Post by Neal.Mollen » February 12th, 2019, 5:44 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 5:32 am
Neal.Mollen wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 4:43 am

Unlike Howard, I don't think it would be foolish to buy these wines "now," but it would be ill-advised if you are looking for something to drink in the near term.
To be clear, I am not suggesting that nobody buy Bordeaux futures or even that younger people should not buy Bordeaux futures. That would be hypocritical as I bought my first Bordeaux futures (1981 Ducru) when I was 27. But, the OP says he is pretty new to Bordeaux. Don't you think he should get some idea of what he likes - does he like left bank or right bank, more traditional styled Bordeaux or Rolland specials, etc., etc., etc., before tying his money up in wine he won't be drinking for 10-15 years. How can you learn more about Bordeaux when the wines you are buying cannot be drunk yet? I mean, if he also is buying Bordeauxs to drink now, I guess I don't care that much (although the traditional vs. modern split is still important), but I don't know how one can learn about any wine region by just looking at wine bottles.
Which is why I suggested that it might make sense to wait until the wines are delivered. I don't think you'll save big bucks buying futures on these wines, and waiting will allow you to drink a bottle or three before laying things down.

And the truth is, there is only so much you can do about projecting into the future. Even if he drank aged vintages now, there is no way to be sure that the Monbousquet he loves now will be adored in 15 years. It is, to a degree, a gamble either way. A few well-chosen 2016s laid down "now" would likely be a welcome treat in 20, when buying them on the street will be both expensive and risky.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#27 Post by YLee » February 12th, 2019, 6:49 am

I'm going to change my suggestion. Forget wine, drink whiskey. You can drink now and later.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#28 Post by Nick Kra Mar Ski » February 12th, 2019, 8:07 am

too lazy to read through all of the replies, but even in "off" vintages for the LB, I've always found great consistency in quality from Talbot

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#29 Post by T Mikula » July 19th, 2019, 11:13 am

First time poster here, but been lurking for about a month. Just finished building out a wine cellar in my basement and along the lines of the initial poster, am looking to get into some BDX.

Really appreciate the info so far, so much good information for what is an overwhelming subject for someone just jumping in. The list below was compiled from information above, and what is available at my local Total Wine (which has a surprisingly good selection of BDX).

Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot St Emilion, 2014 x 6
Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot St Emilion, 2010 x 5
Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan, 2005 x 4
Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan, 2014 x 4
Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac, 2000 x 4

I figure this gives me a good mix of wines I can drink now, as well as begin to start cellaring some away (which is my goal of the whole thing, add new vintages every year so that in 10-15 years I've got a nice little collection going, I'm mid 30s if that matters). I view this as a starter of sorts, and if I like the 2000 /2005s, I can start getting a bit more serious.

Thanks!
T o m

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#30 Post by Jeff Leve » July 19th, 2019, 12:12 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

I agree that it is foolish for a newbie to Bordeaux to buy 2016s, esp. in this price range. Virtually all of the 2016s mentioned above need a decade or more of aging before they begin to show why people love Bordeaux. The OP should look for 2001s, 2004s, 2006s and 2008s in this price range that he can drink now.
Sorry but I do not agree Howard. While you and I might prefer older Bordeaux, that is not to everyone's taste. A lot of people like and enjoy young wines.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#31 Post by Jeff Leve » July 19th, 2019, 12:17 pm

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Perhaps you might share what style you want in your wine? Some of the wines posters in this thread have recommended some very good suggestions. Although in the Left Bank, I would focus on Saint Estephe, Saint Julien and Pessac Leognan, generally speaking, especially in your price range.

You will find more to choose from in your price range in Saint Emilion, Cotes de Bordeaux and even a few from Pomerol.

This might help... https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/20 ... s-ratings/

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#32 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 19th, 2019, 2:23 pm

Grand Puy Ducasse

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#33 Post by mattbillet » July 19th, 2019, 3:59 pm

I do think that your palate now is relevant, as opposed to how it will evolve. When I first started drinking Bordeaux back in the 80's it was just another red wine to me, and I was splashing down 82 first growths like a fish while my friends were questioning me for spending $25 + on a bottle of wine. But, I loved those wines back then! I started really buying and storing with the 2000 vintage. Then as the opportunity availed itself I back filled 89's, 90's, 91's, 95's, 96's, 98's. I find my own taste has evolved toward older bottles in many varietals. In fact I haven't opened any of my premium bottles from 2000 yet. Understand that cellaring is a double edged sword... at 62 I see myself not really buying a lot more bordeaux unless I am thinking of my son. If you are truly aging these wines, you are getting into significant numbers of bottles. If you have varied tastes and are going high end cabs, barolo and getting into Rhone varietals here and abroad... they all age well if you develop an appreciation for older wines. And, Burgundies... the Loire...Spanish wines... these are altogether another entire story. I remember wanting a cellar cabinet with a 200 bottle capacity... and my wife and then infant son both laughed at me and made me buy a cabinet 2-3 x that size. Now that cabinet stands next to one wall in a basement room over run with boxes, racks, shelves, and a refrigerator for the whites, bubbles and rose we might drink in the near future. Wine can be a passion, and also an addiction... when you start thinking serious cellaring do the math and determine exactly how long term you want to commit yourself, and precisely how much space it will require. Especially if your wine interests reach in multiple directions.

Another key thought process is to consider which wines are actually age-worthy, and don't get too deep into wines that are affordable because they are interesting but perhaps not long term stunners. I know people who went out and bought wines in great numbers because they tasted great at a tasting in the moment, and they found themselves with a cellar full of mediocre wines that fell apart with age. I find that every wine that is great and cellars well... those are what you want in modest numbers to capture verticals... but if you are buying wide ranging verticals in numerous age worthy wines by the case annually, that ends up being literally thousands of bottles of wine over time. Just saying that you might want to focus on specific Chateau and vineyards that you consider personal favorites amongst a broader selection of varietals (Cabernet, Bordeaux, Barolo, Cabernet Franc from both US and Loire, Petite Sirah, Syrah, Riojas, certain field blends and zinfandels, CNdP, Hermitage, burgundy, Pinot, Champagne, Alsace, Port... ) and limit your names and vintages to smaller numbers that can be aged in a reasonable space. If you carefully limit yourself it still winds up being a lot. And, realize you will always be susceptible to enjoying pop and pours, and don't take wine SO VERY SERIOUSLY... enjoy it.

Ultimately, my suggestion is go get a few really great aged bottles, and then ask yourself whether you think your taste is going to head that way (wines with age)... in multiple varietals. If yes... focus on really good stuff. If you taste them and realize that in certain varietals you don't like them aged, stand by your tastes and don't age those wines. Drink them earlier! It is what you like! Unfortunately, and with multiple exceptions, really expensive wines are actually expensive because they are really good.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#34 Post by Doug Schulman » July 19th, 2019, 4:13 pm

I like the suggestions to buy aged wines. I would also buy some young wines, probably '15s, to see if you have a preference.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#35 Post by Doug Schulman » July 19th, 2019, 4:14 pm

For specifics, I've seen a lot of back vintage Bernadotte and Lanessan on the market for reasonable prices. They're nice wines.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#36 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » July 19th, 2019, 6:29 pm

Pichon Lalande's second wine, Reserve de la Comtesse
Cantemerle (below your price range, but very much worth buying)
Montrose's second, La Dame de Montrose
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#37 Post by NED VALOIS » July 19th, 2019, 6:46 pm

Bought; (MOST IN 3 LT & MAGS)
16 Figeac
Brane Cantenac
LL CASES
LABEGORE
FLEUR CARDINALE
L POYFERRE
DUHART MILON ROTHSCHILD
MALESCOT ST EXUPERY
PAVIE-MACQUIN
GRAND PUY-LACOSTE
[cheers.gif] [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif]

PS THINKING OF SON/DAUGHTERS, SONS IN LAW & GRAND KIDS ~!
Last edited by NED VALOIS on July 19th, 2019, 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#38 Post by mattccheung » July 19th, 2019, 6:47 pm

Chateau D'Armailhac, Cantenac Brown, Kirwan, D’Issan, Langoa Barton, Alter Ego de Palmer.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#39 Post by RichardFlack » July 19th, 2019, 6:51 pm

Not clear where your palate is (you’re heading to Bdx from Cali it seems).
I subscribe to the wine equivalent of dollar cost averaging, strong vintage is chance to bottom feed, Medoc etc.
In Paulliac, Batailley is always correct and good value if you are very patient. D’Armailhac also good in the affordable category.
But I’d agree with those suggesting picking up some older Vintages to get a feel for what you like.
The wines you cite used to be (relatively) value bottles but no longer. They are excellent but not cheap.
In the more expensive categories the suggestions already given here are all good.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#40 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 19th, 2019, 6:53 pm

T Mikula wrote:
July 19th, 2019, 11:13 am

Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot St Emilion, 2014 x 6
Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan, 2005 x 4
Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan, 2014 x 4
Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac, 2000 x 4
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#41 Post by GregT » July 19th, 2019, 7:18 pm

Perhaps you might share what style you want in your wine?
Duh.

I was hoping someone would get to that.

The OP now has a completely random and useless list of wines, which he could have found just by looking at Google.

He likes CA Cab, which I assume would mean Napa. Or he liked it and now he doesn't like it any more. Not exactly clear. So does he want something that might resemble it in ripeness, oak, structure? Maybe point him to St Emilion? Forget about whether a wine is mostly Merlot or Cab - most people couldn't tell the difference two times out of ten and most of the wines discussed are going to be blends of varying percentages.

Or does he want something that's more tannic and tough and astringent than the CA wines he's been drinking?

And what are some of those wines anyway?

Rather than simply generate a list of random wines, which most of these threads tend to do, it might be useful for the OP to mention whether he likes wines younger or older, tannic or softer, etc. If he's trending towards Bordeaux, he must have had a bunch of them to make a statement like that - so what might those be? He bought Lynch-Bages and Pontet-Canet - is that because he likes them or just read about them and thought that's what he's supposed to like?

And what are the Napa wines he no longer likes? Some info like that might result in a more useful group of wines.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#42 Post by K. Tr@n » July 19th, 2019, 10:54 pm

2016 specifically? Pavie Macquin and Larcis Ducasse have the highest scores in that price range.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#43 Post by Rory K. » July 20th, 2019, 9:08 am

Cantemerle and Gloria are good options
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#44 Post by Doug Schulman » July 20th, 2019, 10:28 am

GregT wrote:
July 19th, 2019, 7:18 pm
Perhaps you might share what style you want in your wine?
Duh.

I was hoping someone would get to that.

The OP now has a completely random and useless list of wines, which he could have found just by looking at Google.

He likes CA Cab, which I assume would mean Napa. Or he liked it and now he doesn't like it any more. Not exactly clear. So does he want something that might resemble it in ripeness, oak, structure? Maybe point him to St Emilion? Forget about whether a wine is mostly Merlot or Cab - most people couldn't tell the difference two times out of ten and most of the wines discussed are going to be blends of varying percentages.

Or does he want something that's more tannic and tough and astringent than the CA wines he's been drinking?

And what are some of those wines anyway?

Rather than simply generate a list of random wines, which most of these threads tend to do, it might be useful for the OP to mention whether he likes wines younger or older, tannic or softer, etc. If he's trending towards Bordeaux, he must have had a bunch of them to make a statement like that - so what might those be? He bought Lynch-Bages and Pontet-Canet - is that because he likes them or just read about them and thought that's what he's supposed to like?

And what are the Napa wines he no longer likes? Some info like that might result in a more useful group of wines.
He says in the OP that he has very little knowledge of or experience with Bordeaux wines. I don't know how he's supposed to know what style he wants. Trying a bunch of random wines that Bordeaux drinkers like actually seems (to me, anyway) like a pretty good approach to begin to learn and gain experience.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#45 Post by GregT » July 20th, 2019, 11:38 am

That's true Doug, but then how does he even know that he's "trending towards more Bordeaux-like"? Maybe if he simply described what that meant to him, it would be easier to hit that target.

OTOH if he's simply interested in trying random Bordeaux just to see if he's interested, I completely agree with you - dive in and try a few. Remember those he likes and those he hates and go from there. But rushing out to buy Cantenac Brown because some random guy on a wine board said to isn't going to be any better than simply walking into Total Wine and picking at random based on price. (Although IMHO he would do well to pick C-B.)
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#46 Post by Howard Cooper » July 20th, 2019, 11:57 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
July 19th, 2019, 12:12 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

I agree that it is foolish for a newbie to Bordeaux to buy 2016s, esp. in this price range. Virtually all of the 2016s mentioned above need a decade or more of aging before they begin to show why people love Bordeaux. The OP should look for 2001s, 2004s, 2006s and 2008s in this price range that he can drink now.
Sorry but I do not agree Howard. While you and I might prefer older Bordeaux, that is not to everyone's taste. A lot of people like and enjoy young wines.
Did you even read my post 25? Or do you just find it necessary to disagree with everything everyone writes?
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#47 Post by Jeff Leve » July 20th, 2019, 3:34 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
July 20th, 2019, 11:57 am
Jeff Leve wrote:
July 19th, 2019, 12:12 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

I agree that it is foolish for a newbie to Bordeaux to buy 2016s, esp. in this price range. Virtually all of the 2016s mentioned above need a decade or more of aging before they begin to show why people love Bordeaux. The OP should look for 2001s, 2004s, 2006s and 2008s in this price range that he can drink now.
I read it. As I said, I agree with you on aging wine, I just do not think it’s always sage advice to tell everyone all wines need age, as it’s a personal preference.

Sorry but I do not agree Howard. While you and I might prefer older Bordeaux, that is not to everyone's taste. A lot of people like and enjoy young wines.
Did you even read my post 25? Or do you just find it necessary to disagree with everything everyone writes?

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#48 Post by T Mikula » July 24th, 2019, 11:50 am

T Mikula wrote:
July 19th, 2019, 11:13 am
First time poster here, but been lurking for about a month. Just finished building out a wine cellar in my basement and along the lines of the initial poster, am looking to get into some BDX.

Really appreciate the info so far, so much good information for what is an overwhelming subject for someone just jumping in. The list below was compiled from information above, and what is available at my local Total Wine (which has a surprisingly good selection of BDX).

Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot St Emilion, 2014 x 6
Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot St Emilion, 2010 x 5
Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan, 2005 x 4
Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan, 2014 x 4
Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac, 2000 x 4

I figure this gives me a good mix of wines I can drink now, as well as begin to start cellaring some away (which is my goal of the whole thing, add new vintages every year so that in 10-15 years I've got a nice little collection going, I'm mid 30s if that matters). I view this as a starter of sorts, and if I like the 2000 /2005s, I can start getting a bit more serious.

Thanks!
Well that's annoying, had all these queued up to buy at TotalWine and was going to pick them up, when I get the message that they've removed the 2000 and 2005 vintages from my order since they didn't actually have them? Defeats the purpose of the order since those were the ones I actually wanted to drink now...

Oh well, back to the drawing board I guess.
T o m

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