Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

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KyleC
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Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#1 Post by KyleC » February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm

So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#2 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 11th, 2019, 1:50 pm

It looks like Brane Cantenac just might squeeze in there, on futures.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#3 Post by Ron Slye » February 11th, 2019, 2:01 pm

Oddly, I just bought some 2016 Bdx, and literally have nothing in that range -- I have under that, and a few over that. Very odd. The closest at 49 is Phelan Segur. I can't seem to find my notes from the UGC SF tasting, where i think I liked some in that price range but for whatever reason did not bite.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#4 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 11th, 2019, 2:02 pm

SHL Blanc is now about $100 on futures - yikes.

But you might be able to find Johnathan Maltus's Clos Nardian blanc in that price range [if he even made it in 2016 - it's not showing up on Wine-Searcher right now].

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#5 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 11th, 2019, 2:09 pm

Ron Slye wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 2:01 pm
literally... nothing in that range... Very odd...
prod_mfi.png
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#6 Post by Josh H » February 11th, 2019, 2:11 pm

Chateau Monbousquet.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#7 Post by Craig G » February 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
I would expect that most of the wines in this range will appear in the market after release around the same price or slightly higher, so you probably don’t need to rush, and waiting would offer the opportunity to sample them.

I haven’t tasted the 16 but one chateau I like a lot at the low end of this range is Gloria.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#8 Post by Jim F » February 11th, 2019, 3:08 pm

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Well, to start, why 2016? 2015 is excellent also and may be a bit less $ for some wines, and 2014 is good with much better pricing. But for even for 2016, there are lots of choices in your price range. There are a couple threads here on WB from recent mass 2016 bordeaux tastings. Maybe those notes will help. If you liked Lynch Bages and Pontet Canet, then other wines from Pauillac may appeal,to you: Grand Puy Lacoste, and Clerc Milon I bought. Somewhat similat woould be St. Julien where the aforementioned Gloria is from, but also Branaire, Beychevelle, langoa barton, and for just a bit over your range, Leoville Barton. Other purported stars from the left bank include Rauzan Segla and Carmes Haut Brion. And there are many more.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#9 Post by DanielP » February 11th, 2019, 3:14 pm

Domaine de Chevalier, Brane-Cantenac, Langoa Barton. I thought all 3 represented good value in that price range (value for the vintage that is. Not sure it represented good value in an absolute sense). If you're buying Bordeaux in that range, I would also consider stretching out for Gazin, which was very nice.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#10 Post by Howard Cooper » February 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

Jim F wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:08 pm
KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Well, to start, why 2016? 2015 is excellent also and may be a bit less $ for some wines, and 2014 is good with much better pricing. But for even for 2016, there are lots of choices in your price range. There are a couple threads here on WB from recent mass 2016 bordeaux tastings. Maybe those notes will help. If you liked Lynch Bages and Pontet Canet, then other wines from Pauillac may appeal,to you: Grand Puy Lacoste, and Clerc Milon I bought. Somewhat similat woould be St. Julien where the aforementioned Gloria is from, but also Branaire, Beychevelle, langoa barton, and for just a bit over your range, Leoville Barton. Other purported stars from the left bank include Rauzan Segla and Carmes Haut Brion. And there are many more.
I agree that it is foolish for a newbie to Bordeaux to buy 2016s, esp. in this price range. Virtually all of the 2016s mentioned above need a decade or more of aging before they begin to show why people love Bordeaux. The OP should look for 2001s, 2004s, 2006s and 2008s in this price range that he can drink now.
Howard

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#11 Post by YLee » February 11th, 2019, 3:46 pm

DanielP wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:14 pm
Domaine de Chevalier, Brane-Cantenac, Langoa Barton. I thought all 3 represented good value in that price range (value for the vintage that is. Not sure it represented good value in an absolute sense). If you're buying Bordeaux in that range, I would also consider stretching out for Gazin, which was very nice.
+1 on the Dom. Chevalier.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#12 Post by Mattstolz » February 11th, 2019, 3:47 pm

I would also echo the sentiment of going for 2014s instead of 2016s at the very least

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#13 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 11th, 2019, 3:47 pm

cantenac brown

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#14 Post by julianseersmartin » February 11th, 2019, 4:02 pm

Another vote for Domaine de Chevalier.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#15 Post by crickey » February 11th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Brane Cantenac ($70-90); Beausejour Becot ($75-80); Domaine de Chevalier ($70-75); Lagrange ($50); Malartic Lagraviere ($55-65); Malescot St. Exupery ($55-60). These are all 95 points or higher. Get down into the 93-94 point range and there are boatloads more in the price range: Gazin, Giscours, Larcis Ducasse and St. Pierre for starters. Some of the 94 pointers are actually less than your $50 cut-off (Labegorce, for instance). Yes, points aren't everything, but the point is that there are lots and lots of good wines in that price range for you to try.

If you were going to go a little above this range, but below the prices of the wines you listed, I would seek out Leoville Poyferre and Leoville Barton (the latter if you are young and have a long life ahead of you).
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#16 Post by Ian H » February 11th, 2019, 4:28 pm

I picked up some Branaire-Ducru and Gruaud Larose this weekend, both in that range, the latter close to being over. It's easy enough to backfill Bordeaux but I want to start laying some stuff down from strong vintages and sampling my own bottles purchased on release, in 5, 10, 15, 20 year intervals.

For my palate If I had to pick just one appellation I'd go Pauillac and look at stuff like GPL, Duhart-Milon, Pontet-Canet and Lynch-Bages but obviously above $75.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#17 Post by YLee » February 11th, 2019, 4:51 pm

Are you looking for BDX whites as well?
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#18 Post by Kris Patten » February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm

Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested, find what I like and what I'd like to age more and then buy 2014-2016 accordingly based on vintages.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#19 Post by KenL. » February 11th, 2019, 7:38 pm

Malescot St. Exupery
Labegorce
Lobel

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#20 Post by M. Meer » February 11th, 2019, 8:45 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm
Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested.
Speak it! In the last two years, I've had 8 bottles of Bordeaux, with the youngest being from 2005. I've learned that I like it with a certain age (or right on release), so I'm sitting on wine instead of enjoying it. Even if you were to go back to '08, '09, and '10, you will have a big head start compared to current releases. It helps to diversify. Bordeaux is practically indestructible.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#21 Post by Craig G » February 11th, 2019, 10:27 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm
Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested, find what I like and what I'd like to age more and then buy 2014-2016 accordingly based on vintages.
I totally agree about buying some earlier vintages, and I would include those from the 90s where prices allow (some 95/95/98 are still affordable), as well as some of the “off” vintages like 97 and 07. 02 and particularly 04 are also worth exploring. On the other hand I wouldn’t suggest ignoring 14 and 15 as they will have a short window where they should drink well and give some idea of what incoming Bdx may be like. I think it’s always worthwhile to drink some of the young wines as well as older to get an understanding of the area.

For someone starting to explore Bdx, 06, 08, 09, 10 and 12 are also interesting but could be in a difficult stage to drink now.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#22 Post by Hamish Wakes-Miller » February 12th, 2019, 1:54 am

Another vote for Domaine de Chevalier.
But also:
Meyney
Sociando Mallet
Brane Cantenac
d'Issan

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#23 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 12th, 2019, 3:52 am

Kris Patten wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:25 pm
Contrary to some opinions here, I wouldn't buy anything 2014-2016. I'd go back to 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2006 and buy some of the producers or regions suggested, find what I like and what I'd like to age more and then buy 2014-2016 accordingly based on vintages.
That's a great strategy, but before you buy recent stuff based on what wines you liked from past vintages, double-check whether anything about that Chateau has changed, in particular whether they brought in a new consultant or changed ownership, or even the modified the cepage. Lots of change going on now. For example, a 2000 Figeac may not taste anything like a 2016 Figeac.

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#24 Post by Neal.Mollen » February 12th, 2019, 4:43 am

KyleC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:48 pm
So I know nothing about Bordeaux beyond the basics. I buy mostly most California, Burgundy, and Rhone wines. My only real experience with Bordeaux is at the high end when friends bring nice bottles for dinner. Over time, I've been to discover my California cab palate is trending towards more Bordeaux-like, so trying to explore it more. I bought some futures a while back so I have some exposure at the higher end (Lynch-Bages, Pontet-Canet, etc), but given 2016 being such a strong vintage, what should I be exploring in the $50-$75 range?
Unlike Howard, I don't think it would be foolish to buy these wines "now," but it would be ill-advised if you are looking for something to drink in the near term. While they might be fun to drink in the year or so after delivery, they are soon going to go round the far side of the moon, out of contact for a decade at least and perhaps much more. If you are buying to lay them down for the fairly distant future, buying them early can be smart.

I also wonder whether "now" should mean right now, on futures. I am not really in touch with the 2016 market, but I doubt you will achieve any real savings by buying them now as opposed to waiting for them to be delivered in a couple of years.

As for specific wines, I leave that to others to advise. I bought only 3 (Calon, GPL, and Domaine de Chevalier) and only to ensure I could get them in 375 format. I have no idea whether they are your the strike zone.

If you want something to drink now and experiment with, I agree that 1999, 2001, and 2004 are likely better choices, and that you can get many 2014s off the shelves now for laying down at a price that probably is as good if not better than what comparable 2016s will bring. The 2014 Grand Puy Lacoste remains a really good value I think
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#25 Post by Howard Cooper » February 12th, 2019, 5:32 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 4:43 am

Unlike Howard, I don't think it would be foolish to buy these wines "now," but it would be ill-advised if you are looking for something to drink in the near term.
To be clear, I am not suggesting that nobody buy Bordeaux futures or even that younger people should not buy Bordeaux futures. That would be hypocritical as I bought my first Bordeaux futures (1981 Ducru) when I was 27. But, the OP says he is pretty new to Bordeaux. Don't you think he should get some idea of what he likes - does he like left bank or right bank, more traditional styled Bordeaux or Rolland specials, etc., etc., etc., before tying his money up in wine he won't be drinking for 10-15 years. How can you learn more about Bordeaux when the wines you are buying cannot be drunk yet? I mean, if he also is buying Bordeauxs to drink now, I guess I don't care that much (although the traditional vs. modern split is still important), but I don't know how one can learn about any wine region by just looking at wine bottles.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#26 Post by Neal.Mollen » February 12th, 2019, 5:44 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 5:32 am
Neal.Mollen wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 4:43 am

Unlike Howard, I don't think it would be foolish to buy these wines "now," but it would be ill-advised if you are looking for something to drink in the near term.
To be clear, I am not suggesting that nobody buy Bordeaux futures or even that younger people should not buy Bordeaux futures. That would be hypocritical as I bought my first Bordeaux futures (1981 Ducru) when I was 27. But, the OP says he is pretty new to Bordeaux. Don't you think he should get some idea of what he likes - does he like left bank or right bank, more traditional styled Bordeaux or Rolland specials, etc., etc., etc., before tying his money up in wine he won't be drinking for 10-15 years. How can you learn more about Bordeaux when the wines you are buying cannot be drunk yet? I mean, if he also is buying Bordeauxs to drink now, I guess I don't care that much (although the traditional vs. modern split is still important), but I don't know how one can learn about any wine region by just looking at wine bottles.
Which is why I suggested that it might make sense to wait until the wines are delivered. I don't think you'll save big bucks buying futures on these wines, and waiting will allow you to drink a bottle or three before laying things down.

And the truth is, there is only so much you can do about projecting into the future. Even if he drank aged vintages now, there is no way to be sure that the Monbousquet he loves now will be adored in 15 years. It is, to a degree, a gamble either way. A few well-chosen 2016s laid down "now" would likely be a welcome treat in 20, when buying them on the street will be both expensive and risky.
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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#27 Post by YLee » February 12th, 2019, 6:49 am

I'm going to change my suggestion. Forget wine, drink whiskey. You can drink now and later.
-Yong

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Re: Help a newbie with 2016 BDX in the ~$50-$75 range

#28 Post by Nick Kra Mar Ski » February 12th, 2019, 8:07 am

too lazy to read through all of the replies, but even in "off" vintages for the LB, I've always found great consistency in quality from Talbot
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