Filoli Estate Vnyd??

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TomHill
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Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#1 Post by TomHill » February 11th, 2019, 7:49 am

Was finishing up JasonWilson's Godforsaken Grapes book last night. Towards the end, he briefly/cryptically refers to Filoli Estate:
FiloliEstate ,
located in Woodside. They have a very complete collection of more than 200 native American and hybrid grapes in a vineyard there. I can not find any additional information on this treasured vnyd on the WebSite or elsewhere. Man....just think of the GemischterSatz you could make from this vnyd!!

Anybody ever visited this vnyd or this Estate and have additional information?

Tom
Last edited by TomHill on February 11th, 2019, 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BLaird
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Re: Fioli Estate Vnyd??

#2 Post by BLaird » February 11th, 2019, 11:26 am

Do you mean "Filoli"?
Brian Laird

T Welch
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Re: Fioli Estate Vnyd??

#3 Post by T Welch » February 11th, 2019, 11:40 am

BLaird wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 11:26 am
Do you mean "Filoli"?
Yes he does. His link goes to the Filoli website.
T*R*U*E*T*T - ITB

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M. Dildine
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Re: Fioli Estate Vnyd??

#4 Post by M. Dildine » February 11th, 2019, 1:53 pm

TomHill wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:49 am
Was finishing up JasonWilson's Godforsaken Grapes book last night. Towards the end, he briefly/cryptically refers to Fioli Estate:
FioliEstate ,
located in Woodside. They have a very complete collection of more than 200 native American and hybrid grapes in a vineyard there. I can not find any additional information on this treasured vnyd on the WebSite or elsewhere. Man....just think of the GemischterSatz you could make from this vnyd!!

Anybody ever visited this vnyd or this Estate and have additional information?

Tom
My wife and I have taken my mother to Filoli Gardens a couple of times, it is a beautiful estate. I had no idea, however, that they had a vineyard there, much less a vineyard chock full of native American wine grapes.
Cheers,

Mike

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Well...

#5 Post by TomHill » February 11th, 2019, 3:34 pm

M. Dildine wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:53 pm
TomHill wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:49 am
Was finishing up JasonWilson's Godforsaken Grapes book last night. Towards the end, he briefly/cryptically refers to Fioli Estate:
FioliEstate ,
located in Woodside. They have a very complete collection of more than 200 native American and hybrid grapes in a vineyard there. I can not find any additional information on this treasured vnyd on the WebSite or elsewhere. Man....just think of the GemischterSatz you could make from this vnyd!!

Anybody ever visited this vnyd or this Estate and have additional information?

Tom
My wife and I have taken my mother to Filoli Gardens a couple of times, it is a beautiful estate. I had no idea, however, that they had a vineyard there, much less a vineyard chock full of native American wine grapes.
Well, Mike...I sent them an e-mail of inquiry today...but not heard back yet. Will post here what they respond with.
Tom

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#6 Post by Rama Roberts » February 11th, 2019, 4:49 pm

I've been to Filoli a few times and wasn't aware of this. Doing some Googling, I found the following.
Filoli’s Gentlemen’s orchard and the fruit garden currently contain [...] 164 American table grape hybrids.
source: https://filoli.org/wp-content/uploads/F ... Filoli.pdf

Looks like they do orchard tours too, probably in summer/late fall?: https://filoli.org/events/orchard-tours/

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Al Osterheld
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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#7 Post by Al Osterheld » February 11th, 2019, 4:57 pm

I think it’s part of their orchard and is mainly table grapes. The orchard was neglected for years and later restored starting in the mid 1990s, not sure how many of the vines were original although the orchard supposedly only has historically accurate fruit. Adam Tolmach’s sister-in-law was involved with Filoli and the orchard restoration for many years.

-Al

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#8 Post by Mel Knox » February 11th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Tom,

Adam Tolmach's brother and his wife run/ran the garden there for many years. Supposedly Adam's brother is a beermaking genius.
ITB

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#9 Post by Rama Roberts » February 11th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Mel Knox wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 5:20 pm
Tom,

Adam Tolmach's brother and his wife run/ran the garden there for many years. Supposedly Adam's brother is a beermaking genius.
Mel, as someone with similar interests, I am very intrigued by this heirloom gardening, beer making genius. Sounds like he might live in the bay area? Do you know anything else about him?

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#10 Post by Al Osterheld » February 11th, 2019, 5:38 pm

Jeffrey and Lucy Tolmach moved back to the Ojai area, I think now live and farm on Ojai Vineyards property.

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#11 Post by Mel Knox » February 11th, 2019, 10:10 pm

Thanks, Al. I was passing along old news.
ITB

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#12 Post by Daniel H » February 11th, 2019, 11:01 pm

My wife is a Filoli member, and their very best annual event occurs each Fall when they offer samples of their heirloom apples, pears, and grapes. The fruits are amazingly varied, tasty, and interesting. But to my knowledge they do not fernent any of their grapes into wine.
H.e n.n e.s s.e.y

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#13 Post by Al Osterheld » February 12th, 2019, 6:49 am

Mel Knox wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 10:10 pm
Thanks, Al. I was passing along old news.
It's an interesting story and a surprising connection. The Tolmachs were at Filoli almost from its beginning as a public site and worked there for 35 years.

-Al

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Filoli Estate Vnyd?? More Details

#14 Post by TomHill » February 14th, 2019, 10:45 am

TomHill wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:49 am
Was finishing up JasonWilson's Godforsaken Grapes book last night. Towards the end, he briefly/cryptically refers to Filoli Estate:
FiloliEstate ,
located in Woodside. They have a very complete collection of more than 200 native American and hybrid grapes in a vineyard there. I can not find any additional information on this treasured vnyd on the WebSite or elsewhere. Man....just think of the GemischterSatz you could make from this vnyd!!

Anybody ever visited this vnyd or this Estate and have additional information?

Tom
I got a response from Jim Salyards on their grape program at Filoli. He also sent me a much more detailed report from Carolyn Curtis on the grape program that is interesting reading.

So for wine afficianados, this grape collection is not of a whole lot of interest. It appears that they are mostly table grapes. The vine material is available to those of interest in propagating them, but they have no program in place to share this plant material on any sort of systematic basis, including FPS.
Tom





Jim wrote: The Table Grape Collection



· The grapes came from the collection at Prusch Park, San Jose (Todd Kennedy's collection which he collected and rescued from germplasm that was being deaccessioned from other fruit repositories).

· These grapes, called both American table grapes and Eastern Hybrids, are seeded table grapes and grown for dessert, not for wine making.

· Nearly all are hybrids and crosses between Vitis labrusca, or Vitis aestivalis and V. vinifera.

· Grapes are propagated by hardwood cuttings taken in January during the dormant period and are their own roots.

· They are grown the first year to get them established and training starts the second dormant period after their root systems have become established

· They are trained to have only one trunk and are headed back at the height of the training wires and the sprouts from this cut are then selected for the fruiting canes.

· Only 4 canes are selected per plant and they are headed once they reach a certain point.

· They are usually cane pruned rather than spur pruned like wine grapes and they need a wire support system.

· All sorts of vertebrate pests are a threat to grapes, so solar-powered electric fencing is used to discourage these animals during the ripening season.

· Problems: gophers and voles, powdery mildew, oak root fungus, eutypa die back(“dead arm” disease, and phylloxera (root louse)

The phylloxera story:

Phylloxera is an aphid-like insect, called a root louse. It is a native insect from the Eastern to Southeastern part of the United States. It took its time getting to California and was introduced here in 1850. Prior to that event California was the only place in America that could grow Vitis vinifera, the European wine grape, and it was well grown at the California missions. Bartram, Jefferson, Washington and other early American agriculturists tried European grapes and were not successful because of the phylloxera and also the poor climate. This insect feeds only on Vitis vinifera and its hybrids. The insect was introduced to Europe in 1863 and by 1890 it has destroyed about two thirds of the wine grapes and the industry in Europe. Looking to other sources for the making of alcoholic beverages this of course had its effects on promoting the finest apple and pear cider industry in Northern France and in England.



At the turn of the century phylloxera had become such a pest in California that it destroyed the early wine industry of the state and of course close to home, Mr. Bourn's vines in St. Helena. There were quite a bit of wine grapes planted in the Woodside area and they were wiped out also. It wasn't until viticulturists learned that they could use the American native grapes, Vitis labrusca (fox grape) and some of their hybrids as grafted rootstock that a control became possible both here in America and in Europe. It was the hybrid rootstocks developed by viticulturists in France, by crossing Vitis vinifera with the resistant American species grapes that worked as the best rootstocks and saved the Californian wine industry.



The tiny adult insect lives above ground and also down in the soil where it feeds on roots and stunts the plant as a result. Deep down it cannot be reached even with the most powerful modern fumigants. Grape roots can be found 6' down in the soil. Most of the phylloxera are wingless females and they are very small and hard to see.



The story continues today. U. C. Davis blundered terribly by sending out rootstock that was not really resistant to phylloxera and marketing it to a large number of wineries in Napa and Sonoma in the 1980's. Huge amounts of land were planted with it. In the 1990's the phylloxera became a real problem again in California and Europe on vines that had been grown on this untested rootstock. This story really shows how germplasm preservation is so important. If the native American grapes had no longer existed, those genes would not have been around to use in the breeding programs that created the new American phylloxera-resistant rootstocks.

· Watered by drip irrigation with emitters controlled by an automatic irrigation controller

· Weeds are controlled by using weed barrier cloth and mowing several times during the spring and early summer.




____________________________

Head of Horticulture

Internship Program Coordinator

Filoli

86 Cañada Road

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Re: Filoli Estate Vnyd??

#15 Post by Wes Barton » February 14th, 2019, 4:06 pm

He sounds l a little shaky on facts there.

He doesn't mention who created those hybrids or what they are. Many were created for winemaking. I'd bet several are quite suitable. Terre Vox figured out some that work well for their vineyard, and how best to make them. Many of our common table grapes are vinifera. Maybe not top tier, but I've had quite good Sultana (Thompson), which probably came from a better than usual site. Most of the best American and American hybrid grapes are not labrusca, and have some amazing unique aromatics. There are many other American grape species (and debate and classifying them, so you'll get different numbers.)
ITB - Useless lackey

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