2016 Burgs

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Mattstolz
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2016 Burgs

#1 Post by Mattstolz » February 10th, 2019, 3:42 pm

I'm looking for some guidance for vineyards/producers to look at that survived the worst of the growing season in 2016, especially if there are some in some of the not-quite-as famous villages and 1ers (in my mind, thats things like pommard, volnay, mercurey...) any advice on things to search out for 2016?

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#2 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 10th, 2019, 3:50 pm

Clerget versueil

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#3 Post by Mattstolz » February 10th, 2019, 5:06 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:50 pm
Clerget versueil
I got an email from Kogod about that the other day. he gushed pretty strongly about Clerget. I didnt know anything about them before that

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#4 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 10th, 2019, 5:13 pm

Other ones:

Marchand Tawse
Marc Roy
Coquard Loison Fleurot
Angerville 1er

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#5 Post by A.Gillette » February 10th, 2019, 5:24 pm

Check out Doug Barzelay’s website - old vine notes. Good unbiased reviews, generally of the high-end producers, but certainly some stuff in the reviews that is more affordable.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#6 Post by dcornutt » February 10th, 2019, 5:29 pm

A.Gillette wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:24 pm
Check out Doug Barzelay’s website - old vine notes. Good unbiased reviews, generally of the high-end producers, but certainly some stuff in the reviews that is more affordable.
A
Thanks! Doug is someone I know. He knows Burgundy like few others.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#7 Post by Mattstolz » February 10th, 2019, 5:40 pm

A.Gillette wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:24 pm
Check out Doug Barzelay’s website - old vine notes. Good unbiased reviews, generally of the high-end producers, but certainly some stuff in the reviews that is more affordable.
A
thanks! I'll check it out

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#8 Post by William Kelley » February 10th, 2019, 6:07 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:06 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:50 pm
Clerget versueil
I got an email from Kogod about that the other day. he gushed pretty strongly about Clerget. I didnt know anything about them before that
I worry that the prices are running away too rapidly. There is still a lot of work to be done in the vineyards, and Thibaud Clerget is still honing his craft. Definitely a promising estate, but one that would be better served by more restraint from the trade.

[edited to clarify]
Last edited by William Kelley on February 12th, 2019, 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#9 Post by William Kelley » February 10th, 2019, 6:10 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:42 pm
I'm looking for some guidance for vineyards/producers to look at that survived the worst of the growing season in 2016, especially if there are some in some of the not-quite-as famous villages and 1ers (in my mind, thats things like pommard, volnay, mercurey...) any advice on things to search out for 2016?
Consider:

François Raquillet Mercurey 1er Cru Les Nauges
Faiveley Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru Les Cazetiers
Henri Jouan Morey-Saint-Denis 1er Cru Clos Sorbées
Jean-Pierre Guyon Saivgny-les-Beaune Les Planchots
Simon Bize Savingy-les-Beaune 1er Cru Les Vergelesses
Duroché Gevrey-Chambertin Aux Etelois
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#10 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 10th, 2019, 6:18 pm

The jouan looks pretty expensive here, no 16s available that I can see either.

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#11 Post by dcornutt » February 10th, 2019, 6:27 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:13 pm
Other ones:

Marchand Tawse
Marc Roy
Coquard Loison Fleurot
Angerville 1er
Coquard Loison Fleurot made amazing 2016s as well as Clerget. Very nice list. Mr. Kelley's list is quite nice too.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#12 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 10th, 2019, 7:04 pm

I met Mark Fincham and Thomas Dinel at wine house and since then I’ve been huge fans of the Marchand tawse line. Thomas told me the 16 are better than the 15 but there isn’t much of it. He said their 17s are fantastic.

Clerget I liked their old stuff and went long on the 15s once thibauld took over and have been very happy.

Coquard has been a relatively recent find for me but I really like their house style.

I’ve just gotten into Marc Roy but the ones I’ve tried punched way above their weight.

I think 15 and 16 were great vintages for the Volnay 1er from angerville, more accessible too.
dcornutt wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:27 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:13 pm
Other ones:

Marchand Tawse
Marc Roy
Coquard Loison Fleurot
Angerville 1er
Coquard Loison Fleurot made amazing 2016s as well as Clerget. Very nice list. Mr. Kelley's list is quite nice too.

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#13 Post by Tom Reddick » February 10th, 2019, 8:36 pm

I have not done any serious 2016 tastings yet, but yesterday at a local shop tasting they were serving 2016 Raphet Chambolle Musigny Les Bussieres (AOC, not a premier cru), and it was really beautiful. Not a big or highly complex wine, not especially in need of age- I would say an above average AOC- but it had an irresistible charm about it that is rare. A bit punchy, like many 2006s, but also a more serious structure (though 2006 is turning out rather well as I had hoped.)

Like all other 2016s, it is not cheap- $85 here- but I make special note of it because it really captured my attention yesterday and might be worth a taste if you have access. I do not know that it will age into something markedly more complex in time, but in the here and now it is a very pretty drink.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#14 Post by James Billy » February 10th, 2019, 9:08 pm

$85 for a village wine. Burgundy is dead at retail. deadhorse

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#15 Post by Tom Reddick » February 10th, 2019, 9:16 pm

James Billy wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:08 pm
$85 for a village wine. Burgundy is dead at retail. deadhorse
Yeah- that part was painful. I was actually going to grab a few to have around for early enjoyment, until I saw the price. The days of me grabbing a few AOC or Bourgogne wines for casual drinking are pretty well done.

Even so- for 2016 that is an inexpensive Burgundy. The Roumier AOC Chambolle was close to $300 the only offering I got (also a pass for me.) I would expect far more from the Roumier version based on experience, but still- $300, village wine. Does not compute in my head. So I stick to the better wines and know they will all be rare treats where once they were more plentiful in the cellar.

I have not seen pricing on Jadot or Drouhin yet- but it cannot be too much different from the Raphet, or at least I would not expect it to be so.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#16 Post by YLee » February 10th, 2019, 9:36 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 7:04 pm
I met Mark Fincham and Thomas Dinel at wine house and since then I’ve been huge fans of the Marchand tawse line. Thomas told me the 16 are better than the 15 but there isn’t much of it. He said their 17s are fantastic.

Clerget I liked their old stuff and went long on the 15s once thibauld took over and have been very happy.

Coquard has been a relatively recent find for me but I really like their house style.

I’ve just gotten into Marc Roy but the ones I’ve tried punched way above their weight.

I think 15 and 16 were great vintages for the Volnay 1er from angerville, more accessible too.
dcornutt wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:27 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:13 pm
Other ones:

Marchand Tawse
Marc Roy
Coquard Loison Fleurot
Angerville 1er
Coquard Loison Fleurot made amazing 2016s as well as Clerget. Very nice list. Mr. Kelley's list is quite nice too.
Which Marchand tawse wines have you been getting?
I am thinking about the Mazis Chambertin.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#17 Post by Mattstolz » February 11th, 2019, 2:36 am

Tom Reddick wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:16 pm
James Billy wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:08 pm
$85 for a village wine. Burgundy is dead at retail. deadhorse
Yeah- that part was painful. I was actually going to grab a few to have around for early enjoyment, until I saw the price. The days of me grabbing a few AOC or Bourgogne wines for casual drinking are pretty well done.

Even so- for 2016 that is an inexpensive Burgundy. The Roumier AOC Chambolle was close to $300 the only offering I got (also a pass for me.) I would expect far more from the Roumier version based on experience, but still- $300, village wine. Does not compute in my head. So I stick to the better wines and know they will all be rare treats where once they were more plentiful in the cellar.

I have not seen pricing on Jadot or Drouhin yet- but it cannot be too much different from the Raphet, or at least I would not expect it to be so.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#18 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 11th, 2019, 2:54 am

YLee wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:36 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 7:04 pm
I met Mark Fincham and Thomas Dinel at wine house and since then I’ve been huge fans of the Marchand tawse line. Thomas told me the 16 are better than the 15 but there isn’t much of it. He said their 17s are fantastic.

Clerget I liked their old stuff and went long on the 15s once thibauld took over and have been very happy.

Coquard has been a relatively recent find for me but I really like their house style.

I’ve just gotten into Marc Roy but the ones I’ve tried punched way above their weight.

I think 15 and 16 were great vintages for the Volnay 1er from angerville, more accessible too.
dcornutt wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:27 pm

Coquard Loison Fleurot made amazing 2016s as well as Clerget. Very nice list. Mr. Kelley's list is quite nice too.
Which Marchand tawse wines have you been getting?
I am thinking about the Mazis Chambertin.
I have a smattering of the grand and premier crus. The only one that’s difficult to find is the Musigny.

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Re: 2016 Burgs

#19 Post by Matthew Hemming » February 11th, 2019, 2:58 am

Tom Reddick wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:16 pm
James Billy wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:08 pm
$85 for a village wine. Burgundy is dead at retail. deadhorse
The Roumier AOC Chambolle was close to $300 the only offering I got
OOF that's a strong price, Tom. I paid less than GBP 70.00 for mine, in bond. Will be about GBP 80.00 on my table.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#20 Post by joz€f p1nxten » February 11th, 2019, 3:39 am

William Kelley wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:10 pm
Consider:
François Raquillet Mercurey 1er Cru Les Nauges
Duroché Gevrey-Chambertin Aux Etelois
François Raquillet Mercurey 1er Cru Les Nauges: confirmed, especially for the money - tried it on its own, but would be interesting to taste against a Cote de Beaune or Nuits 1er cru.

Duroché Gevrey-Chambertin Aux Etelois: very rare so would be surprise if this is readily available - great terroir (not sure who also makes one)... managed to buy 3 off-domaine. apprx 30% cheaper than their Lavaut-Saint-Jacques, but to me, pretty much level.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#21 Post by William Kelley » February 11th, 2019, 4:29 am

Tom Reddick wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:16 pm
James Billy wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 9:08 pm
$85 for a village wine. Burgundy is dead at retail. deadhorse
Yeah- that part was painful. I was actually going to grab a few to have around for early enjoyment, until I saw the price. The days of me grabbing a few AOC or Bourgogne wines for casual drinking are pretty well done.

Even so- for 2016 that is an inexpensive Burgundy. The Roumier AOC Chambolle was close to $300 the only offering I got (also a pass for me.) I would expect far more from the Roumier version based on experience, but still- $300, village wine. Does not compute in my head. So I stick to the better wines and know they will all be rare treats where once they were more plentiful in the cellar.

I have not seen pricing on Jadot or Drouhin yet- but it cannot be too much different from the Raphet, or at least I would not expect it to be so.
SRP from Kobrand for Jadot Gevrey AOC is 75, for Estournelles St Jacques 140, CSJ 238, Chapelle Chambertin 295 and Clos de Beze 500, to give you a sense of 2016 pricing.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#22 Post by Howard Cooper » February 11th, 2019, 4:39 am

Mattstolz wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 5:06 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:50 pm
Clerget versueil
I got an email from Kogod about that the other day. he gushed pretty strongly about Clerget. I didnt know anything about them before that
Clerget is a very old small winery - I think the current person running the estate is the 20 something's generation. For a long time, they made nice but not great wines. Then, the person running the estate retired and they sold grapes to negociants for several years until the son was ready to take over. Now a new generation is in place with Thibaud Clerget taking the reins. Clerget is still in his 20s and worked some at Domaine Drouhin in Oregon and for Charles Van Canneyt at Hudelot-Noellat before taking over the family domaine. https://www.thisyoungwino.com/blog/2018 ... ud-clerget He is getting rave reviews all over the wine press and I tasted there last summer and very much enjoyed his 2017s in barrel. I will be tasting his 2016s in a month at the grand tasting at the Paulee in NY.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#23 Post by Ian Dorin » February 11th, 2019, 5:19 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:50 pm
Clerget versueil
SSSHHHHH!!!!!

But seriously, the wine is insanely good, and quite well priced.

2016 Lignier Michelot was also quite good.
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Re: 2016 Burgs

#24 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » February 11th, 2019, 6:00 am

Yeah I’m glad I’ve put away a couple cases of the 15 and 16 clerget. excited to try the 17s too.

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