Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

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Martin Petersen
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#51 Post by Martin Petersen » February 11th, 2019, 7:53 am

Joshua Kates wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 4:09 pm
Martin Petersen wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:37 pm
Miani
When I see these, they are never very cheap.
Whites are starting at less than 40€ at my source, but I still haven’t made it beyond the waitinglist ...

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#52 Post by Joshua Kates » February 11th, 2019, 8:05 am

Martin Petersen wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:53 am
Joshua Kates wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 4:09 pm
Martin Petersen wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:37 pm
Miani
When I see these, they are never very cheap.
Whites are starting at less than 40€ at my source, but I still haven’t made it beyond the waitinglist ...
Thanks, if I am ever in Denmark? (And even, then, not really cheap.)

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#53 Post by Alex N » February 11th, 2019, 10:09 am

I've run into quite a few winemakers who have side (or investor funded) projects and can only afford to produce very limited quantities. It seems their model is to convince people they're they're "boutique", extremely limited, mail list only, highly allocated (and therefore highly sought after), and hinting they're something like the next cult or SQN. Most of the time I see they're not established, the wine is good, but no wonder they're struggling to sell a $30 quality wine for $60+, with accessories worth as much as the wine: extra thick glass bottles, tissue wrapping, custom printed corks, fancy expensive printed labels, wooden boxes, expensive stationary sent via USPS during random times of the year, etc.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#54 Post by Jay Miller » February 11th, 2019, 11:36 am

John Morris wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:29 pm
George Chadwick wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 5:02 pm
M Mager wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 4:38 pm
Lopez de Heredia rosado. Barely any of the most recent vintage (2008) came into the Seattle area. my usual local retail source couldn't get any (even though I buy a bunch of RLdH through him). Finally found a different source who got all of 1 case. One bottle per person limit.

Michael
How much was it? Two months ago $200 at auction, today over $300 and counting
That pricing seems whacko.

I don't think the rosado is "allocated" in the sense that it's produced in small quantities and there's very high demand. I would guess the issue in Seattle is that there's very little demand so the distributor only brought in a few cases.

The real problem is that you have a taste for a wonderful but really obscure wine.
And what's weird is that prior to the 2008 release it just sat on the shelves. I bought it and a bunch of our friends bought it but there was very little demand.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#55 Post by Ethan Abraham » February 11th, 2019, 12:03 pm

Yes chambers had the 2000 for $21 8 years ago. Apparently it has gone over $150 at auction. A lot has changed in 8 years...

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#56 Post by Cris Whetstone » February 11th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 11:36 am
John Morris wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:29 pm
George Chadwick wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 5:02 pm


How much was it? Two months ago $200 at auction, today over $300 and counting
That pricing seems whacko.

I don't think the rosado is "allocated" in the sense that it's produced in small quantities and there's very high demand. I would guess the issue in Seattle is that there's very little demand so the distributor only brought in a few cases.

The real problem is that you have a taste for a wonderful but really obscure wine.
And what's weird is that prior to the 2008 release it just sat on the shelves. I bought it and a bunch of our friends bought it but there was very little demand.
This item on this list surprises me as well. I don't remember seeing it in stores often but when I did I never got the sense there was high demand. It just always seemed like something that was either not made in abundance or not really sold much in the states. The price was never anything real high.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#57 Post by David_K » February 11th, 2019, 12:29 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 11:36 am
And what's weird is that prior to the 2008 release it just sat on the shelves. I bought it and a bunch of our friends bought it but there was very little demand.
I remember seeing the 2000 on shelves years ago too. I guess it's kind of a microcosm for how much the wine world has changed in eight years.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#58 Post by Vince T » February 11th, 2019, 3:56 pm

John Morris wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:31 am
Chris T. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 7:23 pm
It is definitely highly allocated
But what do you mean by that? There's a big difference between a small-production wine and an odd-ball one that's hard to sell so the importer and distributor don't have much of it.
It’s not an import problem - it’s production. It’s highly sought after even in Spain - You can buy it at the winery but only as part of a 6 pack (1 rosado + 5 Tondonia Reds)
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#59 Post by M Mager » February 11th, 2019, 4:07 pm

David_K wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 12:29 pm
Jay Miller wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 11:36 am
And what's weird is that prior to the 2008 release it just sat on the shelves. I bought it and a bunch of our friends bought it but there was very little demand.
I remember seeing the 2000 on shelves years ago too. I guess it's kind of a microcosm for how much the wine world has changed in eight years.
I started drinking the Rosado back in the mid-2000's, when the '95 vintage was on the shelves here in Seattle. My local bottle shop in West Seattle always had some stock on hand. Plenty o'availability. That situation continued all the way through 2010 or so, when the '00 vintage was in release. Then around 2011 or so, I was informed that they wouldn't have another vintage until the 2008 was released. I bought up all that my shop had remaining, and the few bottles that they could still squeeze out of the distributor. If I knew then what I know now, I would have squirreled away a shit-ton more of those vintages. All at around $20/bottle. Ah, the good ole' days.

According to the RLdH web site, they bottled more than 1000 cases of the '08 vintage. I get that it's hard to argue that's "small production". Assuming they aren't holding back on the releases, that wine is certainly going somewhere. But I've never been able to find any retail source, local to me or online, that had any of it for sale (other than re-sale auction sites, where the few bottles were being offered at silly high prices). Every retailer I found offering on line either didn't really have it (and as just trolling) or claimed that the listing was in error. My conclusion was that it was being parceled out in small allocations, and rarely staying in the distribution channel for long. If that's not the case, then where is it all at?

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#60 Post by M Mager » February 11th, 2019, 4:18 pm

Vince T wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 3:56 pm
John Morris wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 7:31 am
Chris T. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 7:23 pm
It is definitely highly allocated
But what do you mean by that? There's a big difference between a small-production wine and an odd-ball one that's hard to sell so the importer and distributor don't have much of it.
It’s not an import problem - it’s production. It’s highly sought after even in Spain - You can buy it at the winery but only as part of a 6 pack (1 rosado + 5 Tondonia Reds)
I've chatted a number of times with one of the sales reps for the local distributor here for RLdH. She knows I'm always going to be asking about when the new vintages will be landing here. Trust me, the folks at the distributor are well aware that they could sell through much more of the Rosado if only they could get more. Not sure why they can't, but I assume if has something to do with the politics between the bodega, the importer (Think Global) and our local distributor.

Michael
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#61 Post by Alan Rath » February 11th, 2019, 5:09 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 7:37 am
Tempier Rosé

Harder and harder each year to get more than a few.
Kermit is allocating this to retailers these days, no more "just send me a few more cases"
I'm just one lost soul, swimming in a fish bowl, year after year

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#62 Post by Alan Rath » February 11th, 2019, 5:11 pm

Kent Comley wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:05 pm
Good call - in fact you can add in all Wendourees. The Shiraz though is worth double its cost immediately.
Interesting. I've had only a limited number of Wendouree bottles, but frankly the Shiraz has been the least interesting of their wines.
I'm just one lost soul, swimming in a fish bowl, year after year

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#63 Post by ccotton8 » February 12th, 2019, 11:53 am

I'll add Enfield and Haarmeyer to the list, the stuff sells out super fast.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#64 Post by David Rudd » February 12th, 2019, 11:59 am

Domaine des Tours VDP Vaucluse from Rayas...$30

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#65 Post by Travis Fantz » February 12th, 2019, 1:02 pm

Michael
The issue with the Lopez Rose is that they stopped making it for a moment. It’s popularity skyrocketed when The NY Times wrote an article about the winery and rose. At that time I think they were a few vintages of already not making it. They then started back up. It was always held back before release, so I think we might be up for a release soon. The wine world wa different back then. It was directly imported in Portland. I think I sold it for less than 20$ a bottle and case specials. It is unique but very good. Since their other wine prices haven’t gone crazy, it will be interesting to see if the price jumps out of control.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#66 Post by M Mager » February 12th, 2019, 1:49 pm

Travis Fantz wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 1:02 pm
Michael
The issue with the Lopez Rose is that they stopped making it for a moment. It’s popularity skyrocketed when The NY Times wrote an article about the winery and rose. At that time I think they were a few vintages of already not making it. They then started back up. It was always held back before release, so I think we might be up for a release soon. The wine world wa different back then. It was directly imported in Portland. I think I sold it for less than 20$ a bottle and case specials. It is unique but very good. Since their other wine prices haven’t gone crazy, it will be interesting to see if the price jumps out of control.
Yes. Historically, RLdH has not made the Rosado in every vintage. Only in those vintage when they could pick the mix if grape varieties they use in the Rosado (both red & white grapes) and co-ferment them. There was a pretty good run of these in the late '90s, with releases for 95, 97, 99, and 2000.

To be specific, there was an 8 vintage run when they did not make the Rosado -- from 2000 through 2007. The next vintage they made was 2008. The 2008 hit distribution channels in the U.S. at least a year ago (and a tiny amount of it made it's way to Seattle market late last summer).

As your post (as well as my earlier one) noted, those previous vintages (2000 and earlier) were all readily available (at least they were here in Seattle) on retail shelves for about $20/bottle. And, back then, Cavatappi was DI'ing them into Seattle market, too.

I haven't heard anything about when the next vintage will be after the 2008. But my gut tells me it will be another gap of at least a few years.

Michael

Edit: I just came across an article that makes the claim that RLdH will be producing the Rosado for 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and possibly 2018 vintages -- though I cannot vouch for the correctness of that claim. Sure hope it's true, though...
Michael

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#67 Post by Hank Victor » February 12th, 2019, 3:23 pm

M Mager wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 1:49 pm
Travis Fantz wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 1:02 pm
Michael
The issue with the Lopez Rose is that they stopped making it for a moment. It’s popularity skyrocketed when The NY Times wrote an article about the winery and rose. At that time I think they were a few vintages of already not making it. They then started back up. It was always held back before release, so I think we might be up for a release soon. The wine world wa different back then. It was directly imported in Portland. I think I sold it for less than 20$ a bottle and case specials. It is unique but very good. Since their other wine prices haven’t gone crazy, it will be interesting to see if the price jumps out of control.
Yes. Historically, RLdH has not made the Rosado in every vintage. Only in those vintage when they could pick the mix if grape varieties they use in the Rosado (both red & white grapes) and co-ferment them. There was a pretty good run of these in the late '90s, with releases for 95, 97, 99, and 2000.

To be specific, there was an 8 vintage run when they did not make the Rosado -- from 2000 through 2007. The next vintage they made was 2008. The 2008 hit distribution channels in the U.S. at least a year ago (and a tiny amount of it made it's way to Seattle market late last summer).

As your post (as well as my earlier one) noted, those previous vintages (2000 and earlier) were all readily available (at least they were here in Seattle) on retail shelves for about $20/bottle. And, back then, Cavatappi was DI'ing them into Seattle market, too.

I haven't heard anything about when the next vintage will be after the 2008. But my gut tells me it will be another gap of at least a few years.

Michael

Edit: I just came across an article that makes the claim that RLdH will be producing the Rosado for 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and possibly 2018 vintages -- though I cannot vouch for the correctness of that claim. Sure hope it's true, though...
2009 is being released in the Florida market very soon.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#68 Post by Dale McClaran » March 15th, 2019, 1:40 pm

I’m in Madison WI for a fun filled three day weekend. Walked into a wine shop (SQUARE WINE COMPANY), hoping to geta nice $25 red for the room, had a lovely chat with the owner, and she had some of the 09 Rosado so I bought two for $32 each. She said 3 cases was all that came to WI. Great store BTW, highly recommended.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#69 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » March 15th, 2019, 1:56 pm

Nice that Madison is getting better wine shops; for a long time all there was was Steve’s

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#70 Post by Doug Schulman » March 15th, 2019, 1:58 pm

What an interesting topic. Most I could think of have been named.

I might throw Willi Schaefer into the mix, depending on how we want to define "highly allocated". The wines are certainly allocated, anyway, and very reasonably priced for those who can get them.

Even more so, Scherrer Shale Terrace Zinfandel. Scherrer sells out on presale, so even though there are sometimes back vintages available, it's not usually easy to find the current release.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#71 Post by Jayson Cohen » March 16th, 2019, 8:17 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 4:10 am
Another personal favorite of mine, that is becoming much much harder to find:

Hofgut Falkenstein Krettnacher Euchariusberg Riesling Kabinett Alte Reben

Usually around $25 and under on release. Another insider’s wine. I think Jayson Cohen snags every bottle that hits the States
LOL. Just saw this. I probably should but instead I told you where I got mine.

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#72 Post by Thomas De Waen » March 17th, 2019, 12:15 am

Some of the wines mentioned in this thread are easier to get in Europe: LdH Rosado (was offered as much as I wanted of the 2008, at release price), Clape vin des Amis,...

Gonon also very hard to get here (it used to be abundantly available). Benetiere and Juge basically impossible - they're largely focused on the US. The two wines that most fit the "cheap, excellent and highly allocated" bill for me are Richard Leroy's 2 bottlings, l'Anglore and Overnoy. There's also a few hipster wines like Domaine du Mirroir (Jura) and Domaine de la grande Colline (Cornas) that are incredibly hard to get though very variable in quality.

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#73 Post by PCLIN » March 17th, 2019, 12:22 am

I suspect securing Gonon will be even tougher in the future. I started with ‘11 vintage, pretty much could buy as much as I wanted then, by ‘15 vintage only 12b per customer and ‘16 only 6b per customer. Such a great wine to go with Spaghetti Bolognese though, every time I eat that dish, I want to open a bottle of Gonon. [cheers.gif]
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#74 Post by Eric Mueller » March 17th, 2019, 6:39 am

Dale McClaran wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 1:40 pm
I’m in Madison WI for a fun filled three day weekend. Walked into a wine shop (SQUARE WINE COMPANY), hoping to geta nice $25 red for the room, had a lovely chat with the owner, and she had some of the 09 Rosado so I bought two for $32 each. She said 3 cases was all that came to WI. Great store BTW, highly recommended.
Glad to see Square Wine Co. getting some love. My favorite wine shop in the Madison area and Andrea is very friendly and knowledgeable. Might have to stop in and ask about the 09 Rosado.

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#75 Post by Kirk.Grant » March 17th, 2019, 7:55 pm

Markus S wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:56 am
Gary York wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 7:06 am
Plenty of Vatan around. Providing you are OK with paying $250 a bottle for it.
<cough cough>
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I paid $105 for the 2014 about 2 years ago...that’s a real jump.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#76 Post by NoahR » March 17th, 2019, 8:39 pm

Thomas De Waen wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 12:15 am
Some of the wines mentioned in this thread are easier to get in Europe: LdH Rosado (was offered as much as I wanted of the 2008, at release price), Clape vin des Amis,...

Gonon also very hard to get here (it used to be abundantly available). Benetiere and Juge basically impossible - they're largely focused on the US. The two wines that most fit the "cheap, excellent and highly allocated" bill for me are Richard Leroy's 2 bottlings, l'Anglore and Overnoy. There's also a few hipster wines like Domaine du Mirroir (Jura) and Domaine de la grande Colline (Cornas) that are incredibly hard to get though very variable in quality.
Overnoy cheap? Several hundred a bottle here because of the unicorn status, and that’s if you can find a source.
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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#77 Post by Joe W i n o g r a d » March 17th, 2019, 8:48 pm

NoahR wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 8:39 pm
Overnoy cheap? Several hundred a bottle here because of the unicorn status, and that’s if you can find a source.
I ran across the savagnin for about 30 gbp at London retail a few years ago. Have never seen it at retail in the US.

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Re: Example of highly allocated, yet inexpensive wines?

#78 Post by Claus Jeppesen » March 22nd, 2019, 6:21 am

Eric Mueller wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 6:39 am
Dale McClaran wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 1:40 pm
I’m in Madison WI for a fun filled three day weekend. Walked into a wine shop (SQUARE WINE COMPANY), hoping to geta nice $25 red for the room, had a lovely chat with the owner, and she had some of the 09 Rosado so I bought two for $32 each. She said 3 cases was all that came to WI. Great store BTW, highly recommended.
Glad to see Square Wine Co. getting some love. My favorite wine shop in the Madison area and Andrea is very friendly and knowledgeable. Might have to stop in and ask about the 09 Rosado.
I just received some of my 2009 Gravonia Blanco and 2009 Vina Tondonia Rosado Gran Reserva
In both cases I liked the 2008 versions a lot better
BTW in some markets the whites are allocated too
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