My first Keller gmax

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Kirk.Grant
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#51 Post by Kirk.Grant » February 8th, 2019, 6:28 pm

B. Buzzini wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 2:13 pm
Since I can't find/afford any GG's...bought some 16 Von Der Fels Trocken. How's it?
My understanding is that it's the equivalent of a 1er to a GC. Many people I know respect and seek out this wine as it offers insane value compared to the GG's in price; given that the quality is often so close to the Hubacker & Kirchspiel.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#52 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 8th, 2019, 6:32 pm

Too predictable for me to mention it, so I specifically left it out.

But 2001 Niderhauser Hermannshohle Spatlese...1990 Niderhauser Hermannshohle Auslese...
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#53 Post by Kirk.Grant » February 8th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 4:37 pm

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There's a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.
Rich,

I've had the 2007 G-Max and I have to say there are few that can rival it. However, if you wanted to taste something comparable I'd suggest that you try the Wittmann Brunnenhauschen Riesling Großes Gewächs or their Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs. In fact, for anyone that wants to try something on-par with Keller I'd suggest that you seek out and pay the $74 for the 2014 Wittmann Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs at JJ Buckley. For the price you're paying it's near the same ground, a fraction of the price, and well, well worth the cost. If that's too high and you want to try something in the same realm...I'd go for the $60 2014 Wittmann Westhofener Aulerde Riesling Grosses Gewaechs also a JJ Buckley. Wittmann is a producer that's going to follow in Keller's footsteps in my mind. It's like Roulot(Wittmann) to Coche (Keller) in my mind.
Last edited by Kirk.Grant on February 8th, 2019, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#54 Post by Mark Golodetz » February 8th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 4:37 pm


Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There's a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.
I hate using scores across regions, styles and type, but the gmax was a 97, a high score for me. But I would point to a ton of reds with the same type of score beginning with VCC 2009, 2015.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#55 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » February 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:01 pm
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 4:37 pm
Not unusual predominant themes here I see.

Red > white, or white > red, or red and white can get along... Its preferences and palates vary. I love well-aged Rieslings and they can hit notes on the spectrum that reds can't for me, hence why I appreciate them. Reds, my fetish being Burg, can do things you will never find in whites. I appreciate both. Its is about your tastes and honestly your mood some times. So, I split there and I'm equal opportunity.

Now, where I think this all leads IMO, is it worth it? The case in point for Keller (and by extension anything in that magnitude because that's the lot), I struggle with paying that much for any given wine. Like many on here, I feel I can find comparable quality at <3% the cost and I feel that way for QPR and I just like to explore. Then there's just means, everyone's wallets differ. There's things I can splurge on sporadically, and thing's I can't. You don't buy GMax off a Publix shelf. You gotta get out on the market and that leaves you open to counterfeits, bad bottles, bottle variation, shit years, pick something and I would absolutely have an aneurysm if I paid 3 Gs for a flawed bottle.

I like my sanity.
Mark Golodetz wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:04 am
At a recent tasting of our SOBER group, our very generous host pulled out a 2006 gmax. It was a glorious wine, full flavored rich, but sporting serious acidity, and wonderful, detailed complexity. I loved the wine, certainly WOTN, and it had some pretty stiff competition, some predictable, some less so. An excellent pair of 1985s, a Lynch Bages from the good release and a Caymus, then a 1989 Mouton, a fine example from a period of coffee flavored wines, and a 1978 Mount Eden Pinot Noir which I was convinced was a superb Côte Rotie. Second wine of the night.

Getting back to the gmax, much as I loved it, I could not get away from the cost. Because we tasted it blind, most of the initial guesses were that it was a Clos St. Hune. When the reveal came, I started calculating. The best white I have had in years, and I would have been looking for this in the $200-300 range. But at around $2000, I would never pull the trigger, even after retasting it. I have bought reds in this price range but never a white, and great as it was, I admit to being color prejudiced. I buy whites for current drinking, since premox reared it’s ugly head, so am not used to having bottles with some cellar age and price. But even without the shadow of premox, even the greatest white wines do not have the appeal to me of the great reds.
Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There's a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.
Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn't saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand. [cheers.gif]
Last edited by Rich K0rz€nk0 on February 8th, 2019, 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#56 Post by jcoley3 » February 8th, 2019, 9:00 pm

c fu wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:04 am
William Kelley wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 7:06 am
Fred C wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:55 am


Interesting. I’m the opposite.

Hard to beat a well aged white from d’Auvenay, Coche, or Roulot.
Would hate to do without reds but have to agree with you here.
I am +2 on william And Fred. If I compiled a top 10 all time wines I’ve consumed, white wine would be on the list more than red.
I am somewhat +3 (and sorry to delete PCLIN!).

While it wouldn't quite match with my all-time "wines consumed" list, the most fascinating-and-amazing wine flights consumed from the time they've been poured to the times they have been finished have been white. Granted they have been the summit of White Burgundy, but they have been my most thrilling and illuminating wine experiences. In our group, they usually make an appearance with an early fish or veggie course and get pushed back to reappear warmer and more evolved with cheese late in the meal.

I love Riesling, but I have never had an experience from a top GG/top Spatlese that quite lived up to my best White Burgs.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#57 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » February 8th, 2019, 9:13 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 6:41 pm
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 4:37 pm

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There's a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.
Rich,

I've had the 2007 G-Max and I have to say there are few that can rival it. However, if you wanted to taste something comparable I'd suggest that you try the Wittmann Brunnenhauschen Riesling Großes Gewächs or their Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs. In fact, for anyone that wants to try something on-par with Keller I'd suggest that you seek out and pay the $74 for the 2014 Wittmann Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs at JJ Buckley. For the price you're paying it's near the same ground, a fraction of the price, and well, well worth the cost. If that's too high and you want to try something in the same realm...I'd go for the $60 2014 Wittmann Westhofener Aulerde Riesling Grosses Gewaechs also a JJ Buckley. Wittmann is a producer that's going to follow in Keller's footsteps in my mind. It's like Roulot(Wittmann) to Coche (Keller) in my mind.
Thx Kirk,

Appreciate the recs and I will look in to them. To the point you can make recs in that style for the price points you mentioned, that's kinda where I was headed. While you can't deny that Gmax is in that 6 sigma range for the offering. you can have all that you mentioned that are not quite there yet warning track power and do so by the case or two for the price of one bottle of Gmax. I'll take that all day and twice on Sunday.

Btw, I do believe we crossed paths back in time on the elfs boards, good to see you are doing well. Thx
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#58 Post by Martin Zwick » February 9th, 2019, 12:49 am

I took part at a G-Max verticlal 2001-2011 winter 2013 in Hamburg. Here are some notes in german, certainly Google will translate them for you.

Taste 2004 G-Max or 2017 G-Max, this will really blow your mind. 100/100

https://www.weinlakai.de/weinlakai_11-jahre-g-max/


Prost,
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#59 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » February 9th, 2019, 4:57 am

Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:01 pm
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 4:37 pm
Not unusual predominant themes here I see.

Red > white, or white > red, or red and white can get along... Its preferences and palates vary. I love well-aged Rieslings and they can hit notes on the spectrum that reds can't for me, hence why I appreciate them. Reds, my fetish being Burg, can do things you will never find in whites. I appreciate both. Its is about your tastes and honestly your mood some times. So, I split there and I'm equal opportunity.

Now, where I think this all leads IMO, is it worth it? The case in point for Keller (and by extension anything in that magnitude because that's the lot), I struggle with paying that much for any given wine. Like many on here, I feel I can find comparable quality at <3% the cost and I feel that way for QPR and I just like to explore. Then there's just means, everyone's wallets differ. There's things I can splurge on sporadically, and thing's I can't. You don't buy GMax off a Publix shelf. You gotta get out on the market and that leaves you open to counterfeits, bad bottles, bottle variation, shit years, pick something and I would absolutely have an aneurysm if I paid 3 Gs for a flawed bottle.

I like my sanity.



Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There's a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.
Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn't saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand. [cheers.gif]
No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#60 Post by Mark Golodetz » February 9th, 2019, 6:01 am

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 4:57 am
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:01 pm

Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn't saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand. [cheers.gif]
No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.
I based my $2000 on Wine Searcher but I am delighted it can be had for less.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#61 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » February 9th, 2019, 6:42 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:01 am
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 4:57 am
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm



Wasn't saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand. [cheers.gif]
No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.
I based my $2000 on Wine Searcher but I am delighted it can be had for less.
Wine searcher appears to have all of 3 bottles available, all of which are above $2,000. Not a real deep market. Lots of discussion on GMax pricing. In particular see Robert’s comments in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156147&hilit=Keller+Vuitton.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#62 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 9th, 2019, 6:46 am

$1000+ a bottle, minuscule production...

Yep, that’s a wine to focus on.;)
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#63 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » February 9th, 2019, 6:53 am

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 4:57 am
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:01 pm

Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn't saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand. [cheers.gif]
No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.
Fair enough,. I just recalled that as a price I saw once for a bottle in nyc. Looking at wine searcher, which I know is not exactly the bastion of pricing but let's take it as directional, they average 2500, then toss in some tax and shipping, closer to 3. Not lame. I didn't just pull that from my ass. I just could have been more clear.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#64 Post by A.Gillette » February 9th, 2019, 7:04 am

For the last several vintages, g-max comes as part of the kellerkiste, which contains two bottles of each of the non-auction GGs except hipping, for which there is typically 1 bottle. There is also a GKA or BA included to round out the case. My sense is that the prices you see for g-max in wine searcher are an attempt to cover the entire cost of the case by selling one of the two g-max bottles. So, leaving the winery, you have something very reasonably priced. The pettenthal (which in my mind is a better wine than the g-max) is a different animal now that it is only sold via the auction. That one looks like a $1000 wine from here on out.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#65 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » February 9th, 2019, 7:06 am

Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:53 am
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 4:57 am
Rich K0rz€nk0 wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm



Wasn't saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand. [cheers.gif]
No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.
Fair enough,. I just recalled that as a price I saw once for a bottle in nyc. Looking at wine searcher, which I know is not exactly the bastion of pricing but let's take it as directional, they average 2500, then toss in some tax and shipping, closer to 3. Not lame. I didn't just pull that from my ass. I just could have been more clear.
I could have been more clear as well, luckily we were posting on a wine board and not writing a contract.
The $90 is the “limit” for me too. If I can’t find something exceptional at that price no sense going higher.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#66 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » February 9th, 2019, 7:08 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:46 am
$1000+ a bottle, minuscule production...

Yep, that’s a wine to focus on.;)
Rarer even than an LV handbag. [stirthepothal.gif]

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#67 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 9th, 2019, 7:42 am

For historical context I searched in my emails. (Only back to 2007.) Thought you all might be interested. The pricing trend in US on this very limited data seems Burgundian in that pricing has accelerated compared to just a few years ago.

The earliest offer I find is $200 per bottle in Nov. 2007 for the 2006 G-max. From Dee Vine.

Another data point from my email. The earliest Keller Collection offer I can find, in July 2013 from WHWC:

“2011 Riesling von den Grossen Lagen (Keller Kollektion) $2,895 (only 2 cases available)
The Keller Kollektion is comprised of 12 assorted bottles per case (including 2 bottles of the ultra-rare G-Max!) and is extremely limited, as only 20 cases were imported the US. The contents of each case is as follows:

G-Max (JG 99+) - 2 bottles
Grosses Gewächs Trocken:
Kirchspiel (JG 94+) - 1 bottle
Hubacker (JG 94) - 1 bottle
Abtserde (JG 98+) - 2 bottles
Morstein (JG 97) - 2 bottles
Hipping (JG 94+) - 1 bottle
Pettenthal (JG 95) - 1 bottle
Beerenauslese Goldkapsel:
Hipping BA GK (WA 96) - 1 bottle
Abts # BA GK (WA 95) - 1 bottle”

Another offer from WHWC. From Sept. 2014.

“2012 Keller Riesling Collection $1,495
2 bottles of the ultra-rare G-Max (JG100)
1 bottle of Absterde GG (JG97+)
1 bottle of Morstein GG (JG96)
2 bottles of Hipping GG (JG94+)“

Another offer, from 2015 from WHWC for the 2013 vintage:

“2013 Killer Keller Collection $2,495
One 12-bottle case which contains:
• 1 bottle of Kirchspiel GG (JG 95+)
• 1 bottle of Hubacker GG (JG 95)
• 2 bottles of Abts E GG (VM 95)
• 2 bottles of the ultra-rare G-Max (JG 100)
• 2 bottles of Hipping GG H.M. (JG 95)
• 2 bottles of Morstein GG (JG 98)
• 2 bottles of Pettenthal GG (JG 95)”

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#68 Post by G. Keeler » February 9th, 2019, 9:14 am

Interesting thread. For me whites have reached the same heights as reds. If I had to choose, it would be whites because that is what I gravitate more to these days. I know it doesn't matter for some, but food has a big influence over our wine choices. As we have gotten older for whatever reason we have started eating a lot more fish and veggies so we are probably 70% white 30% red these days.

[/quote]
Henri Murger: "The first duty of wine is to be red."
[/quote]

This quote always reminds me of a guy I used to work with. He found out I was into wine so he would stop by my office and talk wine from time to time. He was a d-bag and just not my style of person so I tried not to engage with him to much but would be polite and listen to his stories of his Napa visits, etc. One afternoon we had a work party at a steak/seafood restaurant. When I arrived they had set up this nice private area with a huge seafood spread, oysters, shrimp, crab, uni, various tartares and sashimi, etc. I look at the wine table and all they had were 2 choices, Nickel & Nickel chard and Silver Oak cab. The wine person was setting up glasses and I asked her if she had any Muscadet or Chablis available. She gave me a big smile and said it wasn't on the list but she always keeps a few bottles of Muscadet to offer anyone ordering the seafood tower. She opens a bottle for me and I start going to town on the wine and the seafood. Mr. d-bag guy finds me in the crowd, looks at my glass and says "bro, you must not have seen the Silver Oak on the table....what are you drinking". I was nice and told him I saw it but was perfectly happy with my wine. He just couldn't process it. He starts in on me again "dude, this is one of the best wines in the world and you are drinking a white wine? Have you ever had Silver Oak before? I thought you were into wine?". I couldn't help but laugh. I asked him if he had ever had a wine that was not from CA, he said no. I asked him if he had much experience with white wine and he said "why would I, people who know about wine only drink red". I politely told him that couldn't be further from the truth and encouraged him to try the white to see if he liked it. He took one sip and made a face and went back to his cab and oysters (I couldn't think of a worse pairing). Best part about this story is he stopped coming by my office after that.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#69 Post by Ledwards » February 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:46 am
$1000+ a bottle, minuscule production...

Yep, that’s a wine to focus on.;)
Bingo. As mentioned, this bottle now is not sold individually and a few hundred bottles are made a year so quoting wine-searcher is not going to work too great at any one moment in time. Secondly, for those quoting W-S, switch to all countries and you see a lot more out there - basically every vintage. The majority of it is not allocated to the US. It is a structural issue so move on from rationalizing it along the lines of other fine Riesling. Apples and oranges.

I would bet 90%+ of the G-Max consumed going forward will NOT be from buying secondary bottles via W-S but from wine friends who have it or get allocated it. So, sure a very few will be listed at huge prices on W-S or at auction but that is not indicative of the price paid for virtually all of the bottles that are/will be consumed- just a very few. Look at Cellartracker- the ‘cost’ per vintage for those that inventoried it is roughly $400-500. High, but nothing like the 1-2 bottles on US W-S as only a few profiteers are willing to play. I read that as a positive endorsement of Keller and his current collector base. It’s not the price, it’s what is in the bottle that holders currently value.
Last edited by Ledwards on February 9th, 2019, 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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dbailey
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#70 Post by dbailey » February 9th, 2019, 1:42 pm

FWIW last individual bottles I bought (ie not as part of the kellerkiste) were 09 and they were £90 IB.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#71 Post by Gerhard P. » February 10th, 2019, 7:46 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:46 am
$1000+ a bottle, minuscule production...

Yep, that’s a wine to focus on.;)
That´s the spiral how a wine soars in price ... focusing on a 1000+ bottle, everybody wants to have one, soon it´s 2000, 2500, 3000+ ...

There is a point, and that´s well (WELL!) below 1000 when I say to myself: ok, that´s it, forget it, move on, look for something else ... there´s enough fine wine around (as recommended above) ...

If you´ve got nice and well-educated friends you´ll still get to drink some of these gems in group tastings, offlines etc. without spending 4 digit figurs ... but maybe a glass and not a full bottle ...
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#72 Post by m. ristev » February 10th, 2019, 7:50 am

what is the point though? i have read several accounts that abtserde can be just as good if not better. i paid $119 for my 16 abtserde. why on earth would i even pay $200 for what is perhaps a marginally better wine? unless you enjoy flexing on the gram more than actually tasting, it seems illogical.
mајкл

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Mark Golodetz
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#73 Post by Mark Golodetz » February 10th, 2019, 8:52 am

Anybody wanting to trade or sell Keller, please let me know
ITB

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#74 Post by Frank Drew » February 10th, 2019, 10:15 am

Jay Miller wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:45 am
For me the greatest white wines are just as great as the greatest reds. If not more so.

Not that I'd pay $2K for any bottle of wine unless I win the lottery...
Totally agree with you on both counts, Jay. But I’m very happy that there are so many red-only drinkers; takes some of the pricing pressure off good white wines.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#75 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 10th, 2019, 11:19 am

Frank Drew wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:15 am
Jay Miller wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:45 am
For me the greatest white wines are just as great as the greatest reds. If not more so.

Not that I'd pay $2K for any bottle of wine unless I win the lottery...
Totally agree with you on both counts, Jay. But I’m very happy that there are so many red-only drinkers; takes some of the pricing pressure off good white wines.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#76 Post by M.Kaplan » February 10th, 2019, 11:52 am

Kelly Flynn wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 7:08 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:07 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:04 am
even the greatest white wines do not have the appeal to me of the great reds.
+1

Not even close.
Keller makes some great stuff, but at the end of the day I easily side with Henri Murger: "The first duty of wine is to be red."
No. The first duty of a wine is to be refreshing.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#77 Post by Jeff Johannsmeyer » February 11th, 2019, 6:16 am

We were lucky enough to get 2 bottles of '06 G-Max on release. Enjoyed the first a year or so ago, but I think dry Riesling just isn't our thing. I could see the complexity and quality, but for me the enjoyment just wasn't there. At $180 it was a very nice white wine, but not one I'd pay for again. Never would have guessed this could go for ten times as much.

Now if someone out there is really willing to pay $2000 for my other bottle (those kinds of numbers are hard for me to fathom), that sounds like a win-win situation!

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#78 Post by Jay Miller » February 11th, 2019, 6:50 am

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 7:08 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:46 am
$1000+ a bottle, minuscule production...

Yep, that’s a wine to focus on.;)
Rarer even than an LV handbag. [stirthepothal.gif]
At least it tastes better.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#79 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 11th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 8:52 am
Anybody wanting to trade or sell Keller, please let me know
Mark, I am not going to sell or trade, but let's get together and I'd be happy to bring some Keller to share.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#80 Post by RyanC » February 11th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Honest question: what is it about the GMax that makes it better than the other Keller GGs? Vine age? Vineyard? Barrel selection?
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#81 Post by Kirk.Grant » February 11th, 2019, 2:02 pm

RyanC wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 1:20 pm
Honest question: what is it about the GMax that makes it better than the other Keller GGs? Vine age? Vineyard? Barrel selection?
KPK holds the blocks of the selected vineyards as a close secret. They’re supposed to be a parcel of the vines from the Brunnenhauschen vineyard. Again, what’s special is his wines and the experience that they offer. Like others I won’t sell or trade, but I’m happy to bring them to an offline to share. It’s more fun getting to share than own any wine...
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#82 Post by Karl K » February 11th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Open to being part of tastings where Keller is opened. I have some but not GMax.
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Kirk.Grant
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#83 Post by Kirk.Grant » February 11th, 2019, 5:35 pm

Karl K wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 5:02 pm
Open to being part of tastings where Keller is opened. I have some but not GMax.
Like you, I also don't have any G-Max. As these are becoming more and more difficult to find, I'll be buying them for as long as I can justify the GG prices. I've never had an aged Clos St. Hune, but once they're at that level in price...I might be tempted to try one or two.
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Re: My first Keller gmax

#84 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 11th, 2019, 7:18 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 5:35 pm
Karl K wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 5:02 pm
Open to being part of tastings where Keller is opened. I have some but not GMax.
I've never had an aged Clos St. Hune, but once they're at that level in price...I might be tempted to try one or two.
You should. It’s good.

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#85 Post by MQuentel » February 12th, 2019, 6:29 am

Only my 2 Cent:

# The wines from Keller are much cheaper, if you are on the list and buy ex Chateau- similar to so many wineries in Burgundy, e.g. Coche-Dury
# why should white wine be cheaper than red? The costs of production are similar.
# There is no reason, why No.1 Riesling should be cheaper than a No.1 wine from Burgundy (e.g. Coches Corton-Charlemagne ) - similar to the prices 100 years ago, wehre German Riesling was among the world most expansive wines.
# at the end - these prices are the result of the market - they are not made by the producers / neither from Coche nor from Keller.

Some nice tasting notes from Coche and Keller
https://hedonistgazette.robertparker.co ... -1243-club

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#86 Post by Mike Grammer » February 12th, 2019, 11:40 am

c fu wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 8:04 am
William Kelley wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 7:06 am
Fred C wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 5:55 am


Interesting. I’m the opposite.

Hard to beat a well aged white from d’Auvenay, Coche, or Roulot.
Would hate to do without reds but have to agree with you here.
I am +2 on william And Fred. If I compiled a top 10 all time wines I’ve consumed, white wine would be on the list more than red.
- 1 on Mark's side on this, in the Fu/William group. My top 10 all time would, I'm sure, have at least 50% whites. That said, a great post, Mark, enjoyed reading your thoughts!

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Re: My first Keller gmax

#87 Post by Ledwards » February 15th, 2019, 9:33 am

FYI- Jancis Robinson’s reviewer Michael Schmidt posted an informative article and complete vertical tasting of all of the Hubacker releases. I found the drinking windows interesting in that IMO JR’s drinking windows are often fairly immediate but in this retrospective many have a back-end window of 2030-2040 on wines already 10+ years old. My experience with aged dry/trocken style wines from 1980/90’s is mostly limited to Clos St. Hune and J.B. Beckers. I am usually impressed with how well they age so I certainly can appreciate these longer windows. I also thought the different approaches to crafting the dries in the early years was interesting.

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles ... -1997-2016
Luke

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