Interesting article, as linked by WineTerroirist, by Esther in the SFChron:
SFChron:BrettWine
on the Manic wine by Mandy Donovan, a Carneros PinotGris that she’s intentionally infected w/ a craft-beer brett strain. And then goes on to describe the frequent brett infections in the Cain wines, which is where she works.
Anybody tried this Merisi Manic PG? And??
Tom
Don’t have to, have one right in our own backyard that used to do that (not sure if they still do or not). They make the wine more ‘interesting’ as it were.
Tom,
I have tasted Brett in some macerated whites, and it tastes different to me than in red wines.
Thanks for sharing this article, my friend. Mandy has quite a ‘pedigree’ - first working with Linda Bisson, one of the ‘queens’ of yeast at UCD, and then at Cain, where they do like a little brett in their wines.
I understand the main thrust of the article - that we are ‘programmed’ often to dismiss brett as a bad thing and not look at it’s potential ‘positive’ characteristics. I get that - and can agree that ‘a little’ brett in some wines adds a layer of complexity that I find appealing. But how do you quantify ‘a little’ and how do you find that strain which will provide the ‘right’ characteristics - and not the overly Band-Aid laden ones or the ones that make a wine smell like horse sh%t? That is the challenge.
The other thing I am curious about is whether this are filtered or not - and if not, what happens when they ‘bloom’ if provenance/storage/transportation are not ‘ideal’?
And yep, I’ve found that brett exhibits itself so differently in beer than it does in wine, and so differently in red wines vs whites (I rarely ever have a bretty white wine).
Cheers
Well, Larry…my take-away from this is that there are a lot of different strains of brett and she chose one she thought would work.
And certainly folks have different tolerances for brett and sensitivity levels.
This is a wine I’d dearly love to taste.
Tom
I, too, am wondering how a winemaker keeps the Brett under check.
My experience is that people love brett in European wines but not so much in California wines.
Well, Drew…I’m assuming she’s smart enough to filter it so the brett doesn’t grow.
She is, after all, not really a “natural” winemaker.
Tom
With the growth of natural Wines in sour beers, perhaps that’s changing? I’m sure that it is, at least in geeky circles. But not for the majority of wine consumers out there.
Larry,
I see this with the gatekeepers.
Speaking of beer, I wonder if the popularity of IPA will mean that wine drinkers will be more open to bitter tastes in wine.
That is an interesting question, my friend. But as you may know, there really is a move away from West Coast ipas that are overly bitter two more hazies and East Coast versions. That very well could be a reaction to trying what were considered the hipper or more popular Styles and moving back to what people really seemed to enjoy.
Cheers
Hi Guys. Good conversation. I wanted to jump in and clarify a few things (no pun intended)! So, I actually inoculated my wine with Brett for primary fermentation in lieu of Saccharomyces. My theory is that wild, un-inoculated Brett usually presents itself as stinky and barnyard-y because it shows up third (post ML) and therefore into a stressed, nutrient-deficient environment. And you never know what strain you are going to get. But, there are many different strains of Brett, and so if you could choose one and coddle it much like you would Saccharomyces, perhaps you could enhance some of its better characteristics. So, I built up a strong, fruity strain, gave it some good nutrients, and viola! I liked Ester’s descriptors a lot…And I did filter (but not sterile)!
Thanks for stopping by, Mandy, and sharing. Somebody must have tipped you off that we were talking about you here??
So you use brettanomyces to ferment the alcohol, in lieu of Saccharomyces?? Does it give pretty much the same conversion rate.
I find it absolutely fascinating what you’re doing what your doing and have the b…errrrr…guts to attempt something so far out.
Pretty gutsy in my book.
Tom
Interesting. I’ve suspected stress plays a big role in bad brettanomyces behavior. They do perform many of the same tasks as Saccaromyces, including producing many positive characteristics. We see many beneficial microbes in other venues, like the human biome, do some very detrimental things under extreme stress. I’ve had some “natural” wines where brett is obviously “in the mix”, presumably in a healthy non-stressed check-and-balance ecosystem of the primary, so it’s part of a wonderfully complex low level wildness (and most people probably wouldn’t pick it out as being there).
It’s fun when people play around with these things.
PS. There’s some thought brettanomyces can act as a sort of “hospital disease”, where attempts to fight it can instead knock out everything that would keep it in check.
PPS. I try to reserve the term brett for 4EG and 4EP, and not as an abbreviation for the yeasts that produce those and many other compounds. As noted above, you can have those brett compounds in a wine, then filter for the yeast prior to bottling, meaning there won’t be a bloom in bottle, but there is brett in the wine.
I tried one about 18 months ago here in Australia that was a collaboration between A winemaker - Sentio and a Brewery - Bridge Road Brewers, both located in the Beechworth wine region about 3 hrs drive North East of Melbourne. The Brewery has made a series of brettanomyces beers and had experience using the yeast. The wine was a Chardonnay and was made in the brewery with a selected strain of Brett, and packaged like beer. I won’t say I loved it but it was certainly interesting. It was very dry and i didn’t see any of the off barnyard flavors. It actually reminded me more of cider than anything else.
I saw a twitter discussion where some of the local wine writers were having a hissy fit about it not long after it came out that showed they were pretty ignorant about Brettanomyces and what the project was trying to achieve. None had actually tasted it of course.