Chateau Rayas holding back wine to drive prices higher?

Chateau Rayas has not released much wine since the 2009 vintage. Other wineries are releasing 2016s. Are they holding back wine to drive prices higher? Release prices have moved up from about $200 for the 2008 vintage to $500+ for 2009 if you can find it. Most older vintages are now $500+ To $900. Retailers say Rayas won’t release wines until they are “ready” but these wines drink well young. What do you think?

I wouldn’t think so: the winemaker is a special kind of character (one might describe him as “difficult”) - I doubt that he would play the supply / demand game to up pricing.

It’s a conspiracy!!! [berserker.gif]

Maybe they’re waiting for the fine wine pricing bubble to burst so they can sell it for lower prices

Rayas is always a late release, as is Bonneau with Celestins. FWIW, the price charged by Rayas is well under retail. It’s the market at work buying what many people think is one of the world’s great wines.

One factor: 2008 was a difficult vintage wedged between two highly-rated ones.

This doesn’t give me any joy to say, but I think Rayas is underpriced in the market. It will be a $2000 bottle for a good recent vintage very soon. It is one of the world’s greatest, most unique wines. The discussion of Rayas pricing reminds me of the discussion of La Tache pricing about 10 years ago when La Tache cleared the $1000 threshold.

This brings me no joy to agree with but I am 100% in agreement with you. Rayas, to me, is undeniably one of the world’s great wines, and the market is only starting to price it as such. I wish I was still paying $200/btl… my latest offering was in the $500ish range and I bought as much as I could(not saying much since quantities offered were understandably low). I feel like demand for Rayas is only going to increase, and so will prices. In the grand scheme of things, even at current pricing, Rayas feels like a value pick in comparison to some of the world’s great wines that I would consider it on par with. Unfortunately, I dont think it will be long before it clears $1000.

2007 was priced lower than 2008.

I think some of this is related to the sale of Martine’s wines.

Rayas 2009s have already been released in the UK and Europe some time ago. In the US, they are being held back, because Emmanuel thought they were being drunk too young, and to coincide with the Martine’s Wines anniversary this year.

Even though I personally regret the price rises, as it means I can’t buy as much, I don’t resent it. And it’s driven by the market. Rayas is one of the world’s greatest wines.

2008 Rayas is stunning, however! Better than any young Châteauneuf from any other producer that I have drunk in the last five years. It just gets better and better, and I am regularly kicking myself that I listened to the erroneous reviews and drank almost all of my bottles shortly after release. Good though it was then, it’s so much more interesting today. And it will go the distance.

2008 Rayas is the 1998 Cheval Blanc of chateauneuf. The gap between the early reviews and the liquid in the bottle is laughable. I struggle to think of other wines that so clearly outperformed their initial scores. And I generally agree with the critics.

Agreed. I do not taste Rhone wines with much frequency, but lately I have had the good fortune to taste a handful of 80s and early 00s wines- TNs here for a couple of them- and I found them utterly thrilling. Just as exciting as older (1970s) LaLas quite frankly- if for different reasons. Never see new vintages around here any more from retailers who charge a normal markup. Should have stocked up when I had the chance.

And as a result, all the sister, brother and cousin offerings (Fonsalette,ect.) have seen remarkable increases in pricing. All worth it IMHO. I cherish the few bottles I have from this producer.

I agree. At all levels (Pignan, Fonsalette), the wines deliver. A producer that genuinely made me change how I think about wine.

Chateau/Domaine des tours remains one of the wine world’s great bargains. Baby rayas for about eur 20/bottle!

Emmanuel Reynaud is indeed a “special” character, but the motivation to hold vintages back is different - and the (high) prices are made in the secondary/tertiaery market …
at the Chateau they are pretty much consistent over the years, if you write about 500+$ be aware that´s four+ times the price off Chateau!

Moreover he has no need to drive prices higher, he can ask what he wants, and will get it … always …
there are only about 20.000 bottles of Rayas for the world per vintage (and in 2018 there will be close to nothing).

The causes are (IMHO):

  1. you have to pay taxes only for SOLD wine - less vintages sold, less taxes to pay (and I think he is living quite modestly and has all he needs)
  2. he indeed doesn´t like to have his wines drunk too early, especially vintages like 2010 …
  3. he does almost the same at Chateau des Tours, only the Vin des Pays and Cotes-du-Rhone (now 2014) is released earlier, the Vacqueyras is released almost as late as Rayas.
  4. the only step by Emmanuel to increase prices (slightly) is to later release 3-packs of older vintages: 1 Rayas, 1 Pignan, 1 Fonsalette … they are about 25-30% more than the original release … and also a way to distribute the Fonsalette together with Rayas …
    I think now 3-packs of 2004-07 were available last summer (in very tiny quantities).

Jacques Reynaud released the wines (up to vintage 1994) after 2 years … only Emmanuel started a delay in about 1999, first only one year, now 6 years.

The quantity in 2008 was much lower than in 2007 … I only got half of my usual allocation.

best

See why Emmanuel is keen of late releases? [wow.gif] [cheers.gif]

I was wondering/affraid if this view got back to Rayas which is what might have caused them them to hold back wine (create a shortage) and accelerate the process of them going to $1000+ per bottle.

I was in Provence last summer and I spoke to a high end retailer of wines there. He said the Chateau is very aggressive on policing retailers who flip their wine allocations to the international market. The retailer said that Rayas wants their wines to be bought at release prices by consumers who drink the wine rather than flip it. They monitor wine web sites to see who is flipping wines. He said good vintages can be sold in the Asian market for close to $1000 per bottle and that they get calls all the time from Asian buyers who want to buy and then flip the wine.

Rayas is my favorite wine and I have been a long time collector. It is discouraging to see hardly any new wine released by the Chateau in the US for the last couple of years. This is what led to my speculation about holding back wine. What little that is out there is now $500 bottle if you can find it. It probably will go past $1000 a bottle as it is one of the most iconic wines made and it often beats out top Bordeaux/Burgundy wines in group tastings.

Most Southern Rhone wines, CdP included, usually are about 2X in the US what they cost ex cave, or even just 2x in $ what they cost in euros. The Rayas line indeed runs between 3 and 4 times. This makes Chateau des Tours, whose CdRs and Vacqueyras are very good QPR ex cave (given the quality) much less of a QPR here (Vacqueyras ex cave is 27 euros and costs $75-85 in the US). I don’t know if this is the importer or the US market, but it is part of why these wines are so expensive here.