"Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
User avatar
Brian Tuite
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18433
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#301 Post by Brian Tuite » February 9th, 2019, 5:24 pm

Waaaah already.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#302 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 9th, 2019, 5:53 pm

AlexS wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 3:09 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 2:38 pm
Eric B. DBA wrote:
February 7th, 2019, 11:39 am
Few things here...First off, i am a Millennial. Born in 1984. Secondly, I love wine...that lends some context.
I used to rage against my generation, however now, the boomers have taken that place.
Why we don't like fine wine...
1. It's stupidly expensive now. Producers have jacked up prices far faster than inflation and our wage increases.
2. We've been crippled with student loan debt. Cost of education is nowhere near what it used to be. Cost of everything in general has risen faster than wages. Personally, I was very smart about my cost of education and that has enabled my wine passion to a degree.
3. Boomers insist on protecting their wealth with tax cuts that we Millennials will have to pay for some day, and currently don't benefit from. I make a good wage and in general should benefit from GOP tax reform, however I'm going to see a tax increase this year in all likelihood. I have to pay even more to subsidize wealthy tax cuts as well as the people in the south sucking off the govt tit.

We don't like wine, we don't buy homes, we don't have children. All primarily driven by #2 and #3.
That is because you also don’t vote.
Yeah, no...try again Howard:
There has been no consistent trend of youth voter turnout decline or improvement over the past 40 years. As the figure below shows, Millennials are turning out at similar rates to the previous two generations when they face their first elections.
Image

https://ssir.org/articles/entry/do_we_a ... er_turnout
Sadly that doesn’t completely contradict his argument. It just means Millinnial youth isn’t any worse at turning out to vote than previous generations...

AlexS
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18709
Joined: February 19th, 2009, 4:05 pm
Location: Mwaukee, 'sconsin

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#303 Post by AlexS » February 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 5:53 pm
AlexS wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 3:09 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 2:38 pm


That is because you also don’t vote.
Yeah, no...try again Howard:
There has been no consistent trend of youth voter turnout decline or improvement over the past 40 years. As the figure below shows, Millennials are turning out at similar rates to the previous two generations when they face their first elections.
Image

https://ssir.org/articles/entry/do_we_a ... er_turnout
Sadly that doesn’t completely contradict his argument. It just means Millinnial youth isn’t any worse at turning out to vote than previous generations...
True.

So what then is the point of making that point?
s t e w @ r t

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 30192
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#304 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 9th, 2019, 6:32 pm

That millennials are running wine AND politics?? [stirthepothal.gif]
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#305 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 9th, 2019, 7:32 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 4:58 pm
I think the real question, a central question that was raised by the article, is whether millennials will become interested in wine as they acquire additional discretionary income in similar percentages to recent generations. I think that's not clear. If it was just about financial aspects, that's an effect that would likely go away over time. If it's about not being as interested in wine as beer or spirits, viewing wine/alcohol as less healthy than previous generations did, or cannabis affecting wine sales, etc., that might not change as the financial status of millennials as a group improves.

-Al
I think there’s a lot to this. Much of it will depend upon how compelling the wines are, particularly in the $15-30 price range. But also upon whether there is a specific wine culture that’s attractive to them. I believe part of the growing success of eastern european wines among young people in Portland is that the wines are affordable, the story has the authenticity of a historical farming culture behind it, and the wines are distinctly different than the average supermarket style.
For my group, the attraction was Burgundy. The wines were not always on point, and they were upper tier pricing but affordable, but the history was fabulous, the codification of the vineyards gave me a measuring stick, and when the wines were on point, they’re mesmerizingly beautiful.

I think many young people are incredibly impressed with elite price point wines, but the elite wines were still reachable on occassion to me in my 20s. Most have increased in price considerably vs inflation. And these are probably the most savvy young generation(please keep in mind that’s a relative savvy, 3 generations back the percentage of wine drinkers in the US was miniscule compared to today.) I was the first wine consumer in my family, and had no peripheral exposure. Most of them will have exposure to wine culture far more often simply becasue so many more of us older generations drink wine now.

They are also exposed to way, way, way, way more choices. I think that dilutes some of the magic. By contrast Bourbon has elevated status and brands, but the number of elite brands and bottles is still relatively much lower. Scarcity is attractive. Add in that a $150 bottle of bourbon can be enjoyed over months and yields 15-19 drinks, with almost no bottle variation vs a $150 bottle of wine with 4-5 glasses, bottle variation, a 2-4 day drinking window, possibly the need to cellar it 2-20 years. For a generation with questions about the country’s fiscal spending habits and politicians not seeming to feel a balanced budget is required, and educational costs that tower over previous generations, wine will need to be competitively priced. (And once all of us are gone and it’s just the millinials, pricing may just come back to earth. Or perhaps not.)

I would hazard a guess that for most people a $20-30 bottle requires just the amount of research that you’re in the mood for. But $150 takes either existing loyalty or due diligence. That may just be how I feel about those two numbers though. It’s a lot easier to just pull the trigger when it’s a choice of one bottle of Pappy that the guy behind me in line wil buy if I don’t.
Last edited by Marcus Goodfellow on February 10th, 2019, 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

R Greene
Posts: 31
Joined: May 27th, 2017, 4:22 am

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#306 Post by R Greene » February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm

Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
R y @ n

User avatar
Al Osterheld
Posts: 5065
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#307 Post by Al Osterheld » February 9th, 2019, 9:41 pm

To be honest, while it was the intentionally eye grabbing title of the article that started the discussion, I don't think anyone who has posted thinks millennials are killing wine. In any case, we shouldn't look to them to save wine (or not), rather it's up to the wine industry to provide a compelling reason for them to become more interested in wine as their finances improve.

I think you're right that some of them will buy more wine as they get older and finances improve. But, I also think there are reasons to wonder if they will be as interested as previous generations.

-Al

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#308 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 9th, 2019, 9:46 pm

R Greene wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
Whike you may have had a target, it kind of seems like you just fired a shotgun into a crowded room of all different opinions...

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 19340
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#309 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 10th, 2019, 3:27 am

R Greene wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
Newflash:

I could not really afford Chateau Latour when I came out of law school, and I had no debt and was at a large law firm being paid top Florida rates. I definitely could not afford Chateau Latour when I made equity partner 7 years later - new baby, major capital contribution, new house, wife stopped working. Actually, in my career, this 2-3 year stretch was my least amount of disposal income ever, especially as backward and forward taxes jumped precipitously on me. Fast-forward to today, and I can readily afford Chateau Latour, and guess what, still ain't buying.

If the inability to enjoy fine wine, and the lament among millenials, is that they annot afford this truly luxury product now made for people far richer than most of us, we have lost touch with what the world of fine actually does offer us: An incredible array of fine wine from many regions across the globe, many still at rather affordable prices. I still buy, drink and enjoy many wines that cost less than $25 and even under $20. And these are not midweek, 85-point quaffers, these are much higher quality wines than that.

PS. 2010 Latour, which I think is the last release from a major vintage, is hovering around $1500.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 15513
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#310 Post by Howard Cooper » February 10th, 2019, 4:43 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:27 am
R Greene wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
Newflash:

I could not really afford Chateau Latour when I came out of law school, and I had no debt and was at a large law firm being paid top Florida rates. I definitely could not afford Chateau Latour when I made equity partner 7 years later - new baby, major capital contribution, new house, wife stopped working. Actually, in my career, this 2-3 year stretch was my least amount of disposal income ever, especially as backward and forward taxes jumped precipitously on me. Fast-forward to today, and I can readily afford Chateau Latour, and guess what, still ain't buying.

If the inability to enjoy fine wine, and the lament among millenials, is that they annot afford this truly luxury product now made for people far richer than most of us, we have lost touch with what the world of fine actually does offer us: An incredible array of fine wine from many regions across the globe, many still at rather affordable prices. I still buy, drink and enjoy many wines that cost less than $25 and even under $20. And these are not midweek, 85-point quaffers, these are much higher quality wines than that.

PS. 2010 Latour, which I think is the last release from a major vintage, is hovering around $1500.
It truly does amaze me that there seem to be (based on this thread) millennials (esp. law firm associates) who drink first growths and comparable wines from Burgundy, California, the Piedmont, etc., on a regular basis and yet on this thread complain about the trials and tribulations of millennials.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

R Greene
Posts: 31
Joined: May 27th, 2017, 4:22 am

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#311 Post by R Greene » February 10th, 2019, 6:24 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:27 am
R Greene wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
Newflash:

I could not really afford Chateau Latour when I came out of law school, and I had no debt and was at a large law firm being paid top Florida rates. I definitely could not afford Chateau Latour when I made equity partner 7 years later - new baby, major capital contribution, new house, wife stopped working. Actually, in my career, this 2-3 year stretch was my least amount of disposal income ever, especially as backward and forward taxes jumped precipitously on me. Fast-forward to today, and I can readily afford Chateau Latour, and guess what, still ain't buying.

If the inability to enjoy fine wine, and the lament among millenials, is that they annot afford this truly luxury product now made for people far richer than most of us, we have lost touch with what the world of fine actually does offer us: An incredible array of fine wine from many regions across the globe, many still at rather affordable prices. I still buy, drink and enjoy many wines that cost less than $25 and even under $20. And these are not midweek, 85-point quaffers, these are much higher quality wines than that.

PS. 2010 Latour, which I think is the last release from a major vintage, is hovering around $1500.

Okay, so perhaps I shouldn't have used Latour as an example, which is at the extreme end. I'll go with this: When I was younger, I couldn't even afford a $50 bottle of wine, or even $25 bottles with regularity. I drank cheap beer, and had a great time doing it. Fast forward to today, and I have a much greater ability to enjoy wines at all different levels. Whether wines like Latour are overpriced is another discussion.

I just don't think we can blame millennials for destroying wine at this stage. My opinion is that, like me, many will become more interested in it when they become more financially independent. Now if they don't like wine in twenty years, then my opinion will change.
R y @ n

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 19340
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#312 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 10th, 2019, 6:28 am

I definitely don’t buy into the suggestion that Millenials are destroying the wine world. My comments are directed to those above suggesting that the world has been destroyed for them. And I agree that they, like my Gen-X group, and the Boomers before them, will be introduced to finer and finer wines, like other luxury things, as they and we mature and have more discretionary cash on hand. Or like Fu, you have a Sugar Daddy or Momma. ;)

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

User avatar
Brian Tuite
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18433
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#313 Post by Brian Tuite » February 10th, 2019, 6:57 am

R Greene wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:24 am



Okay, so perhaps I shouldn't have used Latour as an example, which is at the extreme end. I'll go with this: When I was younger, I couldn't even afford a $50 bottle of wine, or even $25 bottles with regularity. I drank cheap beer, and had a great time doing it. Fast forward to today, and I have a much greater ability to enjoy wines at all different levels.
Boomer here and I say #metoo. I still cannot afford 1st growths and am not losing one bit of sleep over that fact. Being a wine lover isn’t a competition, it’s a hobby.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

Gary York
Posts: 7406
Joined: April 26th, 2010, 4:02 pm
Location: Richmond, Va.

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#314 Post by Gary York » February 10th, 2019, 7:02 am

Al Osterheld wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 9:41 pm
To be honest, while it was the intentionally eye grabbing title of the article that started the discussion, I don't think anyone who has posted thinks millennials are killing wine. In any case, we shouldn't look to them to save wine (or not), rather it's up to the wine industry to provide a compelling reason for them to become more interested in wine as their finances improve.

I think you're right that some of them will buy more wine as they get older and finances improve. But, I also think there are reasons to wonder if they will be as interested as previous generations.

-Al
I don't really think so. Wine is wine. There are plenty of reasons to engage and become interested in wine. It is already there, just waiting to be discovered.
ITB

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#315 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 10th, 2019, 7:59 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:27 am
R Greene wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
Newflash:

I could not really afford Chateau Latour when I came out of law school, and I had no debt and was at a large law firm being paid top Florida rates. I definitely could not afford Chateau Latour when I made equity partner 7 years later - new baby, major capital contribution, new house, wife stopped working. Actually, in my career, this 2-3 year stretch was my least amount of disposal income ever, especially as backward and forward taxes jumped precipitously on me. Fast-forward to today, and I can readily afford Chateau Latour, and guess what, still ain't buying.

If the inability to enjoy fine wine, and the lament among millenials, is that they annot afford this truly luxury product now made for people far richer than most of us, we have lost touch with what the world of fine actually does offer us: An incredible array of fine wine from many regions across the globe, many still at rather affordable prices. I still buy, drink and enjoy many wines that cost less than $25 and even under $20. And these are not midweek, 85-point quaffers, these are much higher quality wines than that.

PS. 2010 Latour, which I think is the last release from a major vintage, is hovering around $1500.
I would plus one this but I can’t afford Latour now(Two kids and growing a winery from nothing) but it’s dead on the money, and if/when I can afford Latour...I’ll probably keep consuming wines from the ranks of very well made and the traditional(Faury, Lassaigne, and the sea of unheralded Loire Valley producers).

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#316 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 10th, 2019, 8:18 am

R Greene wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 6:24 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 3:27 am
R Greene wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
Of course we have to talk about politics. Is it not possible to keep politics out of this discussion?

For those of you who think that millennials are killing wine, just remember this...they have no money right now. Those of us in Gen X couldn't afford expensive wines either when we were young. News flash: Wines are more expensive than ever; young people with little disposable income cannot afford Chateau Latour. However, they will be able to afford it when they are older and more financially independent.
Newflash:

I could not really afford Chateau Latour when I came out of law school, and I had no debt and was at a large law firm being paid top Florida rates. I definitely could not afford Chateau Latour when I made equity partner 7 years later - new baby, major capital contribution, new house, wife stopped working. Actually, in my career, this 2-3 year stretch was my least amount of disposal income ever, especially as backward and forward taxes jumped precipitously on me. Fast-forward to today, and I can readily afford Chateau Latour, and guess what, still ain't buying.

If the inability to enjoy fine wine, and the lament among millenials, is that they annot afford this truly luxury product now made for people far richer than most of us, we have lost touch with what the world of fine actually does offer us: An incredible array of fine wine from many regions across the globe, many still at rather affordable prices. I still buy, drink and enjoy many wines that cost less than $25 and even under $20. And these are not midweek, 85-point quaffers, these are much higher quality wines than that.

PS. 2010 Latour, which I think is the last release from a major vintage, is hovering around $1500.

Okay, so perhaps I shouldn't have used Latour as an example, which is at the extreme end. I'll go with this: When I was younger, I couldn't even afford a $50 bottle of wine, or even $25 bottles with regularity. I drank cheap beer, and had a great time doing it. Fast forward to today, and I have a much greater ability to enjoy wines at all different levels. Whether wines like Latour are overpriced is another discussion.

I just don't think we can blame millennials for destroying wine at this stage. My opinion is that, like me, many will become more interested in it when they become more financially independent. Now if they don't like wine in twenty years, then my opinion will change.
I think most of us are in agreement with you. I started off with seabreezes and white russians.

I do think Millinials and the generations that follow will be wine drinkers, it’s just a matter of time and making sure that good, interesting wines at affordable prices are readily available.

User avatar
Keith A k e r s
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3369
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 3:48 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#317 Post by Keith A k e r s » February 10th, 2019, 8:47 am

Al Osterheld wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 9:41 pm
But, I also think there are reasons to wonder if they will be as interested as previous generations.

-Al

Simple question: Why do you wonder if they will be as interested as previous generations? IMO there are plenty of millenials that are already quite interested in wine, so I don't understand why this is a question/statement.

User avatar
Al Osterheld
Posts: 5065
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#318 Post by Al Osterheld » February 10th, 2019, 10:16 am

Actually, I think many of them will start buying more wine. Will it be to the same degree as previous generations? I don't have a strong feeling either way, but the article that started this thread pointed out some reasons why they might not. The financial factor that has been the basis for much of the thread is a red herring, it wasn't the point of the article and is a temporary effect.

I started following wine seriously when I was in graduate school and had quite a low income (and no help from relatives). When I graduated, I had 14 cases of wine in my "cellar" and it wasn't plonk (also not super collectibles). You don't need a high income to pursue wine as a hobby, although it will certainly affect the types of wines and the quantity you buy. In my case, it was the way I chose to spend some of the small amount of discretionary income I had.

-Al

johngonzales
Posts: 7238
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 6:07 pm
Location: City of Angels

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#319 Post by johngonzales » February 10th, 2019, 10:51 am

Counterpoint?

https://millennialmagazine.com/2018/02/ ... e-culture/

My wife I said in the distribution biz, so we discuss sales etc.. It seems that there’s an overall decrease in alcohol consumption. There’s also some shift to drinking spirits and beer in the “fine” category. A lot of that is marketing by spirits and beer. Wine-wise there is less demand at the top and bottom ends, but not such a decline in the middle. The top end prices haven’t decreased because supply for ultra-stuff can still be supported by the growing international markets. The low end stuff is suffering. That’s the below $15 bottles. I don’t think the middle, perhaps $15-50 is actually showing a big decline. Sales might be challenging, but that’s largely supply-driven as there is more wine being produced in that mid category than 20 years ago. But millennials actually drink plenty of that stuff. I’d bet one is more likely to see a millennial drink a $40 bottle or by-the-glass at age 30, than was the case with a $20 bottle for a 30 year old 20 years ago.

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#320 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 10th, 2019, 10:58 am

johngonzales wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:51 am
Counterpoint?

https://millennialmagazine.com/2018/02/ ... e-culture/

My wife I said in the distribution biz, so we discuss sales etc.. It seems that there’s an overall decrease in alcohol consumption. There’s also some shift to drinking spirits and beer in the “fine” category. A lot of that is marketing by spirits and beer. Wine-wise there is less demand at the top and bottom ends, but not such a decline in the middle. The top end prices haven’t decreased because supply for ultra-stuff can still be supported by the growing international markets. The low end stuff is suffering. That’s the below $15 bottles. I don’t think the middle, perhaps $15-50 is actually showing a big decline. Sales might be challenging, but that’s largely supply-driven as there is more wine being produced in that mid category than 20 years ago. But millennials actually drink plenty of that stuff. I’d bet one is more likely to see a millennial drink a $40 bottle or by-the-glass at age 30, than was the case with a $20 bottle for a 30 year old 20 years ago.
A lot of good points in there. Not least of which is the reality that the supply side continues to grow faster than is intelligent.

User avatar
Brian Tuite
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18433
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#321 Post by Brian Tuite » February 10th, 2019, 11:49 am

johngonzales wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:51 am
Counterpoint?

https://millennialmagazine.com/2018/02/ ... e-culture/

My wife I said in the distribution biz, so we discuss sales etc.. It seems that there’s an overall decrease in alcohol consumption. There’s also some shift to drinking spirits and beer in the “fine” category. A lot of that is marketing by spirits and beer. Wine-wise there is less demand at the top and bottom ends, but not such a decline in the middle. The top end prices haven’t decreased because supply for ultra-stuff can still be supported by the growing international markets. The low end stuff is suffering. That’s the below $15 bottles. I don’t think the middle, perhaps $15-50 is actually showing a big decline. Sales might be challenging, but that’s largely supply-driven as there is more wine being produced in that mid category than 20 years ago. But millennials actually drink plenty of that stuff. I’d bet one is more likely to see a millennial drink a $40 bottle or by-the-glass at age 30, than was the case with a $20 bottle for a 30 year old 20 years ago.
Really? That surprises me because of all the new alcoholic products on the market. Alcoholic juice even aloholic water, yes, sparkling water with alcohol added. WTF?
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

johngonzales
Posts: 7238
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 6:07 pm
Location: City of Angels

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#322 Post by johngonzales » February 10th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 11:49 am
johngonzales wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:51 am
Counterpoint?

https://millennialmagazine.com/2018/02/ ... e-culture/

My wife I said in the distribution biz, so we discuss sales etc.. It seems that there’s an overall decrease in alcohol consumption. There’s also some shift to drinking spirits and beer in the “fine” category. A lot of that is marketing by spirits and beer. Wine-wise there is less demand at the top and bottom ends, but not such a decline in the middle. The top end prices haven’t decreased because supply for ultra-stuff can still be supported by the growing international markets. The low end stuff is suffering. That’s the below $15 bottles. I don’t think the middle, perhaps $15-50 is actually showing a big decline. Sales might be challenging, but that’s largely supply-driven as there is more wine being produced in that mid category than 20 years ago. But millennials actually drink plenty of that stuff. I’d bet one is more likely to see a millennial drink a $40 bottle or by-the-glass at age 30, than was the case with a $20 bottle for a 30 year old 20 years ago.
Really? That surprises me because of all the new alcoholic products on the market. Alcoholic juice even aloholic water, yes, sparkling water with alcohol added. WTF?
I don’t think it’s a large decrease. But I would imagine that it’s mostly spurred by knowing the negative health consequences of drinking beyond a small amount, and also the increased social stigma on being drunk. So lower end spirits have taken the largest hit, but wine drinking in moderation gets some of the shift from spirits. That may mean individual products still sell, but absolute volume decreases a little. Then there’s the fact that people can legally smoke the finest weed as a substitute for alcohol. :)

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 19340
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#323 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 2nd, 2019, 1:58 pm

Damn Millenials are now killing Heineken!

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/mill ... 37071.html

Finally, they are doing something worth a damn.

;)

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

Marcus Goodfellow
Posts: 1292
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#324 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » March 2nd, 2019, 6:42 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 11:49 am
johngonzales wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:51 am
Counterpoint?

https://millennialmagazine.com/2018/02/ ... e-culture/

My wife I said in the distribution biz, so we discuss sales etc.. It seems that there’s an overall decrease in alcohol consumption. There’s also some shift to drinking spirits and beer in the “fine” category. A lot of that is marketing by spirits and beer. Wine-wise there is less demand at the top and bottom ends, but not such a decline in the middle. The top end prices haven’t decreased because supply for ultra-stuff can still be supported by the growing international markets. The low end stuff is suffering. That’s the below $15 bottles. I don’t think the middle, perhaps $15-50 is actually showing a big decline. Sales might be challenging, but that’s largely supply-driven as there is more wine being produced in that mid category than 20 years ago. But millennials actually drink plenty of that stuff. I’d bet one is more likely to see a millennial drink a $40 bottle or by-the-glass at age 30, than was the case with a $20 bottle for a 30 year old 20 years ago.
Really? That surprises me because of all the new alcoholic products on the market. Alcoholic juice even aloholic water, yes, sparkling water with alcohol added. WTF?
Sparkling water with alcohol added is new? I thought Zima came out in the early 90s. ;)

User avatar
Scott Tallman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2184
Joined: April 4th, 2012, 12:07 pm
Location: Seattle (Fremont), WA

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#325 Post by Scott Tallman » March 2nd, 2019, 7:35 pm

The few millennials I know well only drink wine when I pour it for them. But they spend all their disposable income/time on craft beer.

Even when I started in wine 12 or so years ago, the craft scene was fairly nascent. But today the top craft beers can compete with many wines in the $15-50 range. Hell, there are times I’d rather shell out $ for a bottle(s) of beer rather than spend the same amount on wine.

Past ain’t always prologue, so I would not bank on younger generations taking to wine in the same way past generations did.
CT - WestbyGod

Climbs like Tony Martin and descends like Thibaut Pinot

User avatar
Brian Tuite
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18433
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#326 Post by Brian Tuite » March 3rd, 2019, 7:39 am

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
March 2nd, 2019, 6:42 pm
Brian Tuite wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 11:49 am
johngonzales wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:51 am
Counterpoint?

https://millennialmagazine.com/2018/02/ ... e-culture/

My wife I said in the distribution biz, so we discuss sales etc.. It seems that there’s an overall decrease in alcohol consumption. There’s also some shift to drinking spirits and beer in the “fine” category. A lot of that is marketing by spirits and beer. Wine-wise there is less demand at the top and bottom ends, but not such a decline in the middle. The top end prices haven’t decreased because supply for ultra-stuff can still be supported by the growing international markets. The low end stuff is suffering. That’s the below $15 bottles. I don’t think the middle, perhaps $15-50 is actually showing a big decline. Sales might be challenging, but that’s largely supply-driven as there is more wine being produced in that mid category than 20 years ago. But millennials actually drink plenty of that stuff. I’d bet one is more likely to see a millennial drink a $40 bottle or by-the-glass at age 30, than was the case with a $20 bottle for a 30 year old 20 years ago.
Really? That surprises me because of all the new alcoholic products on the market. Alcoholic juice even aloholic water, yes, sparkling water with alcohol added. WTF?
Sparkling water with alcohol added is new? I thought Zima came out in the early 90s. ;)
Isn’t that citrus flavored? Never drank it but I thought it was advertised as such.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

"Something so subtle only I can detect it." ~ Randy Bowman

2019 WOTY...

Mike DiSalvo
Posts: 1815
Joined: August 2nd, 2011, 12:03 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#327 Post by Mike DiSalvo » March 4th, 2019, 9:26 am

Scott Tallman wrote:
March 2nd, 2019, 7:35 pm
The few millennials I know well only drink wine when I pour it for them. But they spend all their disposable income/time on craft beer.

Even when I started in wine 12 or so years ago, the craft scene was fairly nascent. But today the top craft beers can compete with many wines in the $15-50 range. Hell, there are times I’d rather shell out $ for a bottle(s) of beer rather than spend the same amount on wine.

Past ain’t always prologue, so I would not bank on younger generations taking to wine in the same way past generations did.
+1. Have three adult college educated children with good jobs and they have drank plenty of good wine (mostly from me) but doubt they will have the same wine experiences that I have had over the past thirty years. First, many of the great great wines whether its Napa Cabs or international wines are priced well over their capabilities. I use to be able to buy great Napa Cabs for less than $20 and a slew of great international wines for under $30 and had "wow" moments routinely. I don't see that happening for them and that generation. Whereas premium wine was probably undervalued when I first started to become interested in it, to me, it's wildly overvalued now. Second, the millennial generation loves craft beer and spirits and there is strong interest in supporting local business start-ups and the buzz that goes along with that. As much as I love wine, the craft beer and bourbon movement is getting more of my attention. It will be fun to watch how this all develops in the next five years or so.

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5704
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#328 Post by David Glasser » March 4th, 2019, 11:22 am

So maybe wine has ruined itself for millennials?

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13307
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: "Millennials Now Ruining Wine As Well"

#329 Post by Jay Miller » April 18th, 2019, 10:09 am

Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”