passive cellar too cold?

My cellar used to be passive year round, but I found myself worrying in August when the temps could get into the mid to high 60s. Intellectually I knew that this was probably fine but it caused me worry so many years ago I electrified.

I never worried about winter. But the vortex has made me think: has anyone with a passive cellar in Michigan or Minn. ever had their wine freeze? Certainly not an issue here (the 8 degree reading outside this am is the lowest in several years, and even if it got below zero, it wouldn’t stay there for long).

Just wondered if folks in the grip of the vortex are firing up space heaters

I kinda doubt it; when I was in northwestern WI my basement was below ground and I’m not sure it was ever much colder than cool cellar temperature even if it was -10 outside. Maybe it’d be an issue in northern Canada, Alaska, or somewhere with permafrost.

No, because the ground temp reaches a sort-of stasis and won’t continually go down.
Remember, HEAT is the enemy of a cellar, not cold!

yeah, the ground acts as an insulator in both directions. But when the air temp is 20 below for an extended period, at some point you’d think you’d reach a danger zone. I mean, you wouldn’t want a passive cellar in Antarctica would you?

I once had a cellar outside in a converted barn - it had a special wine a/c unit for the summer and a simple radiator for the winter, which only turned itself on when the temperature dropped below 5°C. Thanks to the good insulation, it was never necessary.

This article talks about passive storage (of vegetables) in Alaska and says things near the ground are ~40. You’d think with the thermal mass of a cellar it’d be hard to change the temperature much.

Mine (mostly below grade) is colder than usual but nothing to worry about.

We have a storage room in the basement that I have used for many years as a cellar. it doesn’t get above 60 in the summer, but it’s high 40s down there now.

No, but keep in mind the ground temperature once you get about 6 feet down remains much more steady and well above freezing, reflecting annual average temperatures in the area.

Wine freezes at about 20 degrees f. I have had apassive basement cellar in Michigan for 45 years and it’s no problem. The basement will stay in the 60’s during the coldest winter. We have a playroom and offices down there and keep it comfortable.
In the summer my wife turns the a/c on in April and the basement stays in the 60’s all summer long.

I live in Southern Saskatchewan and work in Northern Saskatchewan (-52 Celsius here the jrber day). I had an unfinished basement for a while. Between the insulating effect of the ground and residual heat for the house, the Le Cache I had down there rarely turned in and I never received a low temp warning.

I live in Minnesota in a 125 year old house with unfinished/uninsulated basement. I have passive wine storage and an active wine unit. This year (after 3+ days of 25-30 below) I’ve had some slightly frozen pipes leading up to an old bathroom, and the temp in the active (nonheating) wine unit is 38! I’ve never seen it colder.

Hearty stock! Couldn’t pay me enough to live in those conditions. And my mother was from Hibbing!

Cool. Did she know or grow up with Dylan?

As Gary’s example shows, it’s unlikely that an enclosed basement will get below freezing, even if it’s uninsulated, though pipes against an exterior wall might.

This chart from Richard Gold’s “How and Why to Build a Passive Wine Cellar” (1983) is informative. Even if the mean monthly temperature outside is 23F – which I doubt is achieved anyplace in the US outside Alaska – two or three feet below ground the soil temperature will still be above freezing. Moreover, the soil temperature below the floor (eight or ten feet down if the room is subgrade, and not exposed to the freezing air temps) will likely be at least in the low 40s. That will have a significant moderating effect on the cellar temp.

Depending on the insulation around the foundation walls, there may also be a warming effect on the ground from the basement (the dashed line on the graph).

Note: Gold reversed the C and F scales on the top.
R Gold ground + surface temp chart.jpg

We’re actually fam (by marriage). Not too many jews is Hibbing. I visited his mom and dad before but never met him.

I put in the second and third posts of this thread documents showing average ground temperatures in different US locales, and seasonal variations:

I did the same. I wasn’t about the temperature itself but the change in the temperature over the seasons which is probably also not something crazy to worry about. My passive cellar usually goes active around the end of June/beginning of July and goes passive again around the beginning of October.

[quoteI live in Minnesota in a 125 year old house with unfinished/uninsulated basement. I have passive wine storage and an active wine unit. This year (after 3+ days of 25-30 below) I’ve had some slightly frozen pipes leading up to an old bathroom, and the temp in the active (nonheating) wine unit is 38! I’ve never seen it colder.][/quote]
Get the blankets on the wine. This weekend at least it will be short weather! 40 degrees.

I live in Alberta, Canada. My passive cellar (basically just a walled off room - nothing fancy), can get down to the low 50s/high 40s. I used to get a little worried, but I realized that many cellars in Burgundy can be just as cold. So if it is good enough for them, I shouldnt have anything to worry about.