2017 Beaujolais

[Chad R]

As the 2017 cru Beaujolais are showing up in email offers and on shelves, anyone have observations on specific wines and/or the vintage you can share? I am drinking 2014 right now and enjoying the freshness of that vintage (particularly Lapierre and Thivin). Curious about this most recent one so I can figure out how deep to go. Thanks in advance.

[Brandon R]

Is a 2017 Château Thivin Côte de Brouilly considered a Cru Beaujolais? I truly don't know the answer. I've had one bottle and thought it was fantastic. I wish I'd bought more.

[Michae1 P0wers]

Is a 2017 Château Thivin Côte de Brouilly considered a Cru Beaujolais? I truly don't know the answer. I've had one bottle and thought it was fantastic. I wish I'd bought more.

Yes, Cote de Brouilly is one of the ten crus of Beaujolais. St-Amour, Juliénas, Chénas, Moulin-a-Vent, Fleurie, Chiroubles, Morgon, Régnié, Brouilly, and Côte de Brouilly. Thivin has been on a role lately.

From early results I have preferred '16s to '17s in Beaujolais, but both are good. I'm hearing lots of hype about '18, but then there was also lots of hype about '15 and to me that vintage was, for the most part, too large-scaled for my tastes.

[Justin S]

I'm interested in this as well, though I'll probably pop a bottle of '17 Lapierre Morgon soon to see for myself. From what I've been reading, it generally seems a bit less structured than '16, but not as extreme in ripeness as '15. Like last year, hail was again a big issue in '17.

[William Kelley]

I published some 600 reviews of 2016 and 2017 Beaujolais wines in The Wine Advocate last year, if you can stomach the subscription... My summarized conclusions were as follows: "2016 is a good but heterogeneous vintage, with frost damage in early May followed by hail in late May and June. Moulin-à-Vent, Fleurie and the northern parts of Morgon were the most severely affected. Hail is not destiny, and it was possible to produce superb wines from affected vineyards: witness Foillard’s terrific 2016 Morgon Côte du Py. But plenty of wines displayed firm, bitter tannins and a lack of energy. The vintage’s best offerings, of which there are plenty, are classically balanced, succulent examples of Beaujolais cut from the same cloth as vintages 2013 and 2014.

"2017 is a warmer, sunnier vintage of very high quality, with some producers comparing it to a hypothetical blend of 2015 and 2016 and others looking back to 2011. The wines are richer and more textural than the 2016s, without attaining the extremes of over-ripeness and hard tannin that sometimes mark the drought-impacted 2015s. Hail was a factor once again, however, and again struck Morgon, Moulin-à-Vent and Fleurie with particular ferocity. What would otherwise have been a homogenously excellent vintage is thus somewhat more varied in complexion."

I haven't tasted any 2018s but based on the weather and what I heard from growers I stay in touch with, there are some freakishly alcoholic wines and plenty that have problems with volatile acidity. So it sounds as if you might be right to be skeptical.

[Art R]

Personally, of the vintages 2012-2016, I find the 2015's least likable. Too ripe and not enough acidity. The few 2017's I've tried, Lapierre and Thivin, are excellent and, I believe, better than the 2016's. No extremes and definitely not overripe.

[Nathan V.]

I published some 600 reviews of 2016 and 2017 Beaujolais wines in The Wine Advocate last year, if you can stomach the subscription... My summarized conclusions were as follows: "2016 is a good but heterogeneous vintage, with frost damage in early May followed by hail in late May and June. Moulin-à-Vent, Fleurie and the northern parts of Morgon were the most severely affected. Hail is not destiny, and it was possible to produce superb wines from affected vineyards: witness Foillard’s terrific 2016 Morgon Côte du Py. But plenty of wines displayed firm, bitter tannins and a lack of energy. The vintage’s best offerings, of which there are plenty, are classically balanced, succulent examples of Beaujolais cut from the same cloth as vintages 2013 and 2014.

"2017 is a warmer, sunnier vintage of very high quality, with some producers comparing it to a hypothetical blend of 2015 and 2016 and others looking back to 2011. The wines are richer and more textural than the 2016s, without attaining the extremes of over-ripeness and hard tannin that sometimes mark the drought-impacted 2015s. Hail was a factor once again, however, and again struck Morgon, Moulin-à-Vent and Fleurie with particular ferocity. What would otherwise have been a homogenously excellent vintage is thus somewhat more varied in complexion."

I haven't tasted any 2018s but based on the weather and what I heard from growers I stay in touch with, there are some freakishly alcoholic wines and plenty that have problems with volatile acidity. So it sounds as if you might be right to be skeptical.

That's good news. I really like 2011s.

[Richard T r i m p i]

Interesting insights William, thanks. Not a fan of most 15s but I've had some decent 16s, just bought a case of Vissoux Brouilly Pierreux....and I rarely buy a case of anything. Plenty rich and textural IMHO. Nice to know about keeping an eye out for the 17s. 18 sounds depressing, which suggests the broader market will probably love it.

RT

[Robert.A.Jr.]

Bouland killed it in 2017. Thivin wins big again.

Waiting on my Roilette.

[Chad R]

Thanks, William and others, for weighing in. Sounds like a vintage to jump in to for its own merits and as a potential bridge over 18.

[William Kelley]

Interesting insights William, thanks. Not a fan of most 15s but I've had some decent 16s, just bought a case of Vissoux Brouilly Pierreux....and I rarely buy a case of anything. Plenty rich and textural IMHO. Nice to know about keeping an eye out for the 17s. 18 sounds depressing, which suggests the broader market will probably love it.

RT

The 2017 Coeur de Vendanges is the Vissoux wine I wouldn't miss. Ample, satiny and succulent, it's just immensely pleasurable. For me, more enjoyable than most cru Beaujolais that year.

[William Kelley]

Waiting on my Roilette.

Wait the better part of a decade. Big structure.

[William Kelley]

Interesting insights William, thanks. Not a fan of most 15s
RT

Jean-Louis Dutraive captured the good 2015s nicely when he said his could be the best wines of his career, but he would only find out in a decade. They do not have much precedent in recent years. The wines that are not outright overripe / cooked / harshly tannic will need time. I have Bouland, Dutraive, Sylvain Chanudet, Lafarge-Vial, Boillot/Barthod and Clos de la Roilette in my cellar, some of them in magnums, but I am not touching them. Given the price, it's low stakes poker. If they develop like '47s then it will be worth the modest investment.

Thevenet's Morgons are also lovely and very classically proportioned in 2015 if you want to try a good one that drinks pretty well now.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

Waiting on my Roilette.

Wait the better part of a decade. Big structure.

Thanks, William. It’s funny, I tend to like my Beaujolais like my Kabinett, baby fresh, but yea Roilette seems to need considerable time in most vintages. I’ve only had one of my 09s. All my others, except Foillard 3.14, are long gone.

[William Kelley]

Waiting on my Roilette.

Wait the better part of a decade. Big structure.

Thanks, William. It’s funny, I tend to like my Beaujolais like my Kabinett, baby fresh, but yea Roilette seems to need considerable time in most vintages. I’ve only had one of my 09s. All my others, except Foillard 3.14, are long gone.

Alain builds a lot of structure into those wines. It resolves faster than a similarly structured Côte d'Or Burgundy, but even his off vintages take time. 2002s are drinking well today, for example.

Had the 1964, from an earlier proprietor, with KP Keller, John Gilman and others early last year and it was still full of life.

[Rory K.]

Just had 16 Thivin a couple months ago and thought it was just fantastic, I'll take more of that over anything. Hopefully 2017 shows well against that.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

Yea Rory I concur, but I can also say that about 2015, 2014, 2011, 2009.....

I think it’s one of the most consistent, best producers in the world.

[G. Shields]

FWIW, here's my note for the 2017 Thivin Brouilly Reverdon:

• 2017 Château Thivin Brouilly Reverdon - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Brouilly (23/11/2018)
  Earthy, red fruits, floral, violet touches on nose, maybe even a hint of pepper. Tart red fruits, pomegranate/cranberry on the palate, lots of acidity, only faint line of tannin. May not have the depth of the best Bojo but thie Thivin delivers plenty of sappy, mouthwatering refreshment (88 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

Have only had 1 other 2017 cru Bojo, a negoce Morgon bottling from Jean Loron... not enough data points to build any kind of picture for the vintage style as a whole, but i certainly enjoyed the Thivin and fully concur with Alfert's comment above: this domaine just delivers over and over again. Few weeks ago had the 2014 Cuvee Godefroy and this had just kicked ahead into another gear compared to on release, just terrific...

I picked up a 2017 Clos de la Roilette Fleurie (standard cuvee, not tardive) at super market recently and had imagined to drink this soon, but the comments from William and others make me think i might be better to wait. Any thoughts and tips on the style/approachability here? Have drunk this several years ago but this was before i got down into the wine-weeds as it were!

[Justin S]

Personally, of the vintages 2012-2016, I find the 2015's least likable. Too ripe and not enough acidity. The few 2017's I've tried, Lapierre and Thivin, are excellent and, I believe, better than the 2016's. No extremes and definitely not overripe.

Curious as to what you liked about the 2017 Lapierre Morgon over the 2016 version. I tried the 2017 last night and found it more ripe than the 2016 and having less structure, but it could just need a year for the baby fat to settle down a bit. That said, it did taste more exuberant than the 2016 on release.

[David_K]

Offers are starting to come out on the '17 Foillards. Has anyone tried them yet?

[William Kelley]

Offers are starting to come out on the '17 Foillards. Has anyone tried them yet?

I don't visit for another couple of months, but based on the vintage and their current form, I wouldn't hesitate to buy blind. Will see if I can find one on Beaune this week.

[David_K]

Offers are starting to come out on the '17 Foillards. Has anyone tried them yet?

I don't visit for another couple of months, but based on the vintage and their current form, I wouldn't hesitate to buy blind. Will see if I can find one on Beaune this week.

Thanks William. How come Foillard always releases so late? Do they bottle later or just hold them back longer?

[William Kelley]

Offers are starting to come out on the '17 Foillards. Has anyone tried them yet?

I don't visit for another couple of months, but based on the vintage and their current form, I wouldn't hesitate to buy blind. Will see if I can find one on Beaune this week.

Thanks William. How come Foillard always releases so late? Do they bottle later or just hold them back longer?

I think the wines see nine months in barrel, which is not especially long. I would speculate that Foillard is simply doing well enough to hold the wines back a little bit. Most Beaujolais winemakers are close to being subsistence farmers, and the wine is a rapid rotation product.

[Justin S]

2017 Metras Fleurie last night. My first bottle, so no way to know how representative this was given the widely discussed bottle variation. Couldn't have been any more different than the 2017 Lapierre Morgon, very lean on the palate, and very herbal. After 2 hours of air, started to gain some weight and had some herbaceous and almost eucalyptus-like aromas. This was entertaining all the way through just due to how much it changed, but definitely more structure than the Lapierre.

[Markus S]

... I am drinking 2014 right now ...

Hmmm....still dealing with my 05's and 09's right now.

[William Kelley]

2017 Metras Fleurie last night. My first bottle, so no way to know how representative this was given the widely discussed bottle variation. Couldn't have been any more different than the 2017 Lapierre Morgon, very lean on the palate, and very herbal. After 2 hours of air, started to gain some weight and had some herbaceous and almost eucalyptus-like aromas. This was entertaining all the way through just due to how much it changed, but definitely more structure than the Lapierre.

The bottles I have had (I purchased a case of each cuvée from a wine merchant in the Beaujolais who sources direct from Métras and took the wines to my Beaune cellar, so they haven't travelled far) have been very floral-fruit driven, with some light reduction that blows off and is diminishing with bottle age. But as you say, bottle variation is the rule rather than the exception! I love the wines though.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

My local retailer is carrying a producer that I have not tried before, any comments:

2017 Yohan Lardy Moulin-a-Vent Vieilles Vignes de 1903

I just grabbed more Bouland.

[William Kelley]

My local retailer is carrying a producer that I have not tried before, any comments:

2017 Yohan Lardy Moulin-a-Vent Vieilles Vignes de 1903

I just grabbed more Bouland.

What you really need is magnums of the Morgon Delys, Robert.

[z_hart]

I had my first bottle of Cru Beaujolais (2015 Moulin-a-Vent) about a month ago and loved it. Since then I've had a bottle of most every Cru. I have loved the Chenas/Morgon/Moulin-a-Vent the most. One problem I have found is that in Houston it is really hard to find my Beaujolais any retailers (Specs/Richards are the biggest wine retailers but have a limited Beaujolais selection).

Question - how do you get on few distributions and which are some of the better Chenas/Morgon/Moulin-a-Vent producers?

[Robert.A.Jr.]

My local retailer is carrying a producer that I have not tried before, any comments:

2017 Yohan Lardy Moulin-a-Vent Vieilles Vignes de 1903

I just grabbed more Bouland.

What you really need is magnums of the Morgon Delys, Robert.

What I really need is better friends so that I can actually pop Maggies of Beaujolais! Most roll their eyes like I’m pouring them a coke on ice. I usually drink Beaujolais alone, my private shame.

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Magnums of cru Beaujolais are one of the great values of the wine world. I often end up decanting them into 375 which I drink over a week or two. Same with magnums of Chablis.

A partner in crime would be most welcome. Come visit and we'll open a 2005 Tete Julienas Fief Cuvée Prestige together, and whatever else we can dig up.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

My local retailer is carrying a producer that I have not tried before, any comments:

2017 Yohan Lardy Moulin-a-Vent Vieilles Vignes de 1903

I just grabbed more Bouland.

What you really need is magnums of the Morgon Delys, Robert.

What I really need is better friends so that I can actually pop Maggies of Beaujolais! Most roll their eyes like I’m pouring them a coke on ice. I usually drink Beaujolais alone, my private shame.

We shared a magnum of 2015 Foillard Cote de Py with guests the other night and it was just smashing. Despite its youth and the format, it was open and generous and totally delicious. After a full evening of champagnes, whites and rose, this was our sole red and it was memorable.

[T. Williams]

Where are you all finding magnums of Beaujolais? I can barely find 750's in and around where I live. PA makes shipping from out of state retailers a tough game for me too, but for the right bottles I have my methods.

I will say, the most annoying part of drinking Beau. is that whenever you talk about it people instantly associate it with the nouveau, which I think it in generally some second rate plonk.

TW

[William Kelley]

Where are you all finding magnums of Beaujolais? I can barely find 750's in and around where I live. PA makes shipping from out of state retailers a tough game for me too, but for the right bottles I have my methods.

I will say, the most annoying part of drinking Beau. is that whenever you talk about it people instantly associate it with the nouveau, which I think it in generally some second rate plonk.

TW

In my case, unhelpfully, in France. But isn't Weygandt based in PA? Perhaps they could sort you out with some magnums of Bouland?

[D@vid Bu3ker]

I think Weygandt is in DC.

[Markus S]

I think Weygandt is in DC.

I thought Weygandt lives in PA where his company is based but he has the shoppe in DC.

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Peter's store is in DC, on Connecticut Ave., not far from Calvert-Woodly.

Nice folks, in my experience, and interesting Saturday tastings. Good selection of magnums - Bouland, Vissoux, others, too.

[Richard T r i m p i]

2017 Daniel Bouland Morgon Corcelette VV Foudre 7
Struck me as somewhat lighter for Morgon. Refreshing, simultaneously agile and silky, red & dark fruits. It builds through the midpalate to a clean finish. If this is from a new foudre, it's not imparting too much wood. Gulpable. Couldn't help pouring an extra glass just to sip.

RT

[Robert.A.Jr.]

2017 Daniel Bouland Morgon Corcelette VV Foudre 7
Struck me as somewhat lighter for Morgon. Refreshing, simultaneously agile and silky, red & dark fruits. It builds through the midpalate to a clean finish. If this is from a new foudre, it's not imparting too much wood. Gulpable. Couldn't help pouring an extra glass just to sip.

RT

It’s excellent stuff. Try the Foudre 4 as well. And the Delys, just wow . . . .

[lleichtman]

As the 2017 cru Beaujolais are showing up in email offers and on shelves, anyone have observations on specific wines and/or the vintage you can share? I am drinking 2014 right now and enjoying the freshness of that vintage (particularly Lapierre and Thivin). Curious about this most recent one so I can figure out how deep to go. Thanks in advance.

I find the style of most of them to be quite a bit heavier in 2017. Seems like they are trying to compete with Burgundy more at a much more reasonable price. I still think they are steals.

[lleichtman]

I published some 600 reviews of 2016 and 2017 Beaujolais wines in The Wine Advocate last year, if you can stomach the subscription... My summarized conclusions were as follows: "2016 is a good but heterogeneous vintage, with frost damage in early May followed by hail in late May and June. Moulin-à-Vent, Fleurie and the northern parts of Morgon were the most severely affected. Hail is not destiny, and it was possible to produce superb wines from affected vineyards: witness Foillard’s terrific 2016 Morgon Côte du Py. But plenty of wines displayed firm, bitter tannins and a lack of energy. The vintage’s best offerings, of which there are plenty, are classically balanced, succulent examples of Beaujolais cut from the same cloth as vintages 2013 and 2014.

"2017 is a warmer, sunnier vintage of very high quality, with some producers comparing it to a hypothetical blend of 2015 and 2016 and others looking back to 2011. The wines are richer and more textural than the 2016s, without attaining the extremes of over-ripeness and hard tannin that sometimes mark the drought-impacted 2015s. Hail was a factor once again, however, and again struck Morgon, Moulin-à-Vent and Fleurie with particular ferocity. What would otherwise have been a homogenously excellent vintage is thus somewhat more varied in complexion."

I haven't tasted any 2018s but based on the weather and what I heard from growers I stay in touch with, there are some freakishly alcoholic wines and plenty that have problems with volatile acidity. So it sounds as if you might be right to be skeptical.

I tasted VA in a Thivin 2018 recently. Was the Moulin a Vent. It was also way too young.

[Tom G l a s g o w]

I think Weygandt is in DC.

I thought Weygandt lives in PA where his company is based but he has the shoppe in DC.

Distribution company is in PA.

[Michae1 P0wers]

I tasted VA in a Thivin 2018 recently. Was the Moulin a Vent. It was also way too young.

I had no idea Thivin made a M-a-V. Is that new?

[William Kelley]

I tasted VA in a Thivin 2018 recently. Was the Moulin a Vent. It was also way too young.

I had no idea Thivin made a M-a-V. Is that new?

If they do, they never presented it to me—and I was there Tuesday! Didn't notice notable levels of VA in any of their 2018s, which across the board showed very well.

In general, in fact, I am being positively surprised by my tastings of 2018s. Thinking aloud, and without mature reflection, the vintage is perhaps best characterized as a juicier, less tannic version of 2015: the fruit is ripe and sun-kissed, the acidities comparatively low, but—thanks to the high yields—the wines retain the juicy succulence and facility that is such a distinguishing feature of Gamay, and they are not wrapped up in hyper-concentration and structure like some of the 2015s where. Quite a few producers are drawing parallels with 2011, and while I think 2018 is a riper vintage than 2011 in the final analysis, such a comparison does betray confidence. I can certainly say that the immediacy and expressive fruit of the 2018s that I have tasted will make them very appealing to a broad audience. And interestingly, perhaps suggesting that the experience derived from vintages such as 2017 and 2015 has not been wasted, a number of low sulfur producers talked about how they had surveilled their fermentations under the microscope, taken pains to make sure their tanks were well blanketed with CO2 (for those working with carbonic maceration), and sometimes added more sulfur than usual, or brought the lees into suspension, or otherwise intervened, to ensure clean, stable wines. Naturally, I am visiting what are to my mind the best and most interesting producers, but the cleanliness and purity of fruit I've found in the 2018s I have tasted thus far, from the top addresses, is markedly better than what I had been expecting. The lack of hail damage that marked 2016 and 2017, especially in Fleurie and Moulin-à-Vent as well as parts of Morgon, also makes for more homogeneity among the top producers who were able to manage the challenging fermentations in 2018.

[Sc0tt F!tzger@ld]

I want to put a case of 2017s together, and have access to the following wines. Which wines and how much of each would you recommend? TIA.

2017 Chateau Thivin Brouilly Reverdon
2017 Chateau Thivin Cote de Brouilly Cuvee Zaccharie
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Fleurie les Garants
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Fleurie Poncie
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Moulin A Vent Les Trois Roches
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Saint-Amour Les Champs Grilles
2017 Jean Foillard Corcelette
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon Cote de Py
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon Eponyme

[Robert.A.Jr.]

A case of all of them?

Hard to miss there. I would add Roilette and Bouland, if you have access.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

I tasted VA in a Thivin 2018 recently. Was the Moulin a Vent. It was also way too young.

I had no idea Thivin made a M-a-V. Is that new?

If they do, they never presented it to me—and I was there Tuesday! Didn't notice notable levels of VA in any of their 2018s, which across the board showed very well.

In general, in fact, I am being positively surprised by my tastings of 2018s. Thinking aloud, and without mature reflection, the vintage is perhaps best characterized as a juicier, less tannic version of 2015: the fruit is ripe and sun-kissed, the acidities comparatively low, but—thanks to the high yields—the wines retain the juicy succulence and facility that is such a distinguishing feature of Gamay, and they are not wrapped up in hyper-concentration and structure like some of the 2015s where. Quite a few producers are drawing parallels with 2011, and while I think 2018 is a riper vintage than 2011 in the final analysis, such a comparison does betray confidence. I can certainly say that the immediacy and expressive fruit of the 2018s that I have tasted will make them very appealing to a broad audience. And interestingly, perhaps suggesting that the experience derived from vintages such as 2017 and 2015 has not been wasted, a number of low sulfur producers talked about how they had surveilled their fermentations under the microscope, taken pains to make sure their tanks were well blanketed with CO2 (for those working with carbonic maceration), and sometimes added more sulfur than usual, or brought the lees into suspension, or otherwise intervened, to ensure clean, stable wines. Naturally, I am visiting what are to my mind the best and most interesting producers, but the cleanliness and purity of fruit I've found in the 2018s I have tasted thus far, from the top addresses, is markedly better than what I had been expecting. The lack of hail damage that marked 2016 and 2017, especially in Fleurie and Moulin-à-Vent as well as parts of Morgon, also makes for more homogeneity among the top producers who were able to manage the challenging fermentations in 2018.

William, you rock!

[Robert M yers]

I want to put a case of 2017s together, and have access to the following wines. Which wines and how much of each would you recommend? TIA.

2017 Chateau Thivin Brouilly Reverdon
2017 Chateau Thivin Cote de Brouilly Cuvee Zaccharie
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Fleurie les Garants
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Fleurie Poncie
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Moulin A Vent Les Trois Roches
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Saint-Amour Les Champs Grilles
2017 Jean Foillard Corcelette
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon Cote de Py
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon Eponyme

I’d buy 3 of each Zaccharie, Corcelette and Cote du Py then a few singles of the Vissoux because I’m not as familiar.

[Lee Short]

I want to put a case of 2017s together, and have access to the following wines. Which wines and how much of each would you recommend? TIA.

2017 Chateau Thivin Brouilly Reverdon
2017 Chateau Thivin Cote de Brouilly Cuvee Zaccharie
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Fleurie les Garants
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Fleurie Poncie
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Moulin A Vent Les Trois Roches
2017 Domaine du Vissoux Saint-Amour Les Champs Grilles
2017 Jean Foillard Corcelette
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon Cote de Py
2017 Jean Foillard Morgon Eponyme

I’d buy 3 of each Zaccharie, Corcelette and Cote du Py then a few singles of the Vissoux because I’m not as familiar.

A very reasonable approach, Robert. Which Vissoux to buy depends on if Scott wants to drink them early or late. Late, go with the Moulin-a-Vent. Early -- get one each of the Fleuries, and one of the Saint-Amour (I've never had the latter, but Vissoux has never disappointed yet). Drink the Fleurie Poncie before the les Garants.

[Jürgen Steinke]

I tasted and bought several 2017 Beaujolais. Wonderful vintage. I think you cannot have enough of these wines. Top Beaujolais is probably the best buy today due to a perfect QPR. I hope this situation remains for a while.