Outpost - who's buying?

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2876
Joined: March 12th, 2013, 7:32 am

Outpost - who's buying?

#1 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » January 8th, 2019, 6:09 pm

We are pleased to announce the date of our 2019 Winter Release, beginning at 9am PST on Tuesday, January 15th. As always, the wines are available on a “first come, first served” basis, so please act quickly on January 15th.

2016 Outpost True Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon - $150
2016 Outpost True Vineyard Immigrant - $115
2016 Outpost Estate Cabernet Sauvignon - $95

Each wine was highlighted by Lisa Perrotti-Brown in issue 234 of the Wine Advocate and by Jeb Dunnuck in his "California, Napa Valley: Napa’s Exuberant, Powerful 2015s" article (see below).

We are always humbled by the response to our releases and thank you for your continued support of Outpost Wines. We have always held to a philosophy of focusing on selling Outpost directly to customers. Our goal is to enhance the consumer's experience and keep our prices affordable for the quality level we produce. We strongly believe the 2016 vintage is stunning and includes three spectacular wines from Outpost that you will not want to miss.

Cheers,
The Outpost Team

User avatar
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2876
Joined: March 12th, 2013, 7:32 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#2 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » January 8th, 2019, 6:11 pm

I've been buying a handful of these since the 2013 vintage. Popped the 2014 regular cab last summer - tasting note is okay. I buy less and less Napa cab, but would be curious to hear from folks who have tried other bottles. Maybach should be coming up soon, so may shift my $ to that instead.

User avatar
Steve M
Posts: 13
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 8:01 pm
Location: Kauai

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#3 Post by Steve M » January 8th, 2019, 7:02 pm

Definitely a buyer this year but may not be in 2020. Ages well, and hits my palate, but pricing is escalating. Was $135 for 2015 True CS and $85 for Estate CS. There are others close to the new price that I want to choose. The one unknown is how many will be offering 2017s and how many won't due to area fires-smoke.
Steve Mickle

User avatar
Josh Grossman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 955
Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:26 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#4 Post by Josh Grossman » January 8th, 2019, 11:06 pm

The buyout has me doubting if I want to continue and I've even been thinking about unloading my current holdings. Too many other great winemakers who aren't in it primarily for money. Thomas Brown is still the winemaker but there are enough other things that he is the proprietor and winemaker.

User avatar
Scott Brunson
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8229
Joined: November 15th, 2011, 2:55 am
Location: in between coastal SC and south FL

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#5 Post by Scott Brunson » January 9th, 2019, 3:40 am

Josh Grossman wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 11:06 pm
The buyout has me doubting if I want to continue and I've even been thinking about unloading my current holdings. Too many other great winemakers who aren't in it primarily for money. Thomas Brown is still the winemaker but there are enough other things that he is the proprietor and winemaker.
buyout+price increase+first come first served=easy pass for me
Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
On CT, I'm S1

User avatar
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2876
Joined: March 12th, 2013, 7:32 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#6 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » January 9th, 2019, 4:22 am

I forgot about the buyout. Leaning towards passing too.

User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12357
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#7 Post by J a y H a c k » January 9th, 2019, 4:56 am

I love the wines. I have visited the winery. I like the guys who used to run the place. I am not buying and it is 100% due to the buyout. I did not even look at the offer so I know nothing about the price increase. There is more wine for sale that I want to buy that I don't have room for, so I choose not to buy from the conglomerates.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

User avatar
John Davis
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2917
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 1:27 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#8 Post by John Davis » January 9th, 2019, 5:16 am

I have been a pretty long time buyer. I am on the fence. They buyout and then price increase, to me, are not positive signs. Loved the wines in the past, but as often said, there is a lot of good juice out there.

JD
ITB

User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12357
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#9 Post by J a y H a c k » January 9th, 2019, 7:17 am

Ok, I looked at the prices. I need another $150 Cali cab like I need, as my mother used to say, a לאָך אין קאָפּ. The True was $85 for the 2007 and is $150 for the 2016. I guess I am being penalized for posting this:
  • 2007 Outpost Cabernet Sauvignon True Vineyard - USA, California, Napa Valley, Howell Mountain (8/13/2011)
    Opened out on the back deck with Flannery Hangar Steak. Joining us were the US rep of a number of well known right bank wineries and his brother, a composer who also owns a winery in the Dordogne. Let's just say that their impression included the use of the word "fantastique" more than once. This was a GREAT bottle of wine. An expressive red fruit and spicy nose. A fantastic mouth feel and a palate oozing cherries and plums with tobacco and coffee notes in the background. The finish was moderate to long, but I didn't pull out a stop watch. I washed it down with the Flannery instead. The Flannery steaks had been rubbed with our own fresh ground spice rub and then grilled at 600 degrees to an outside char and an inside very rare, making a perfect combination for the wine. I opened this bottle after first opening the Outpost "regular" Cab which was almost as good, but when that one was so well received, I opened this one to really blow our guests away, which it did. Thus it was a pop and pour. If this is not your style, then that's OK, but I feel sorry for you. The pleasure level that this wine delivers is extraordinary. This is a Thomas Rivers Brown wine that is not like his tannic monsters of the early 2000s but is instead lusciously approachable. I have no idea how this will age but it really doesn't matter because it is so good right now. Not quite as good as one of the really rare top of the line Schraders that he makes, but very close. I do not taste very many wines 95 and above, maybe a handful to a dozen every year at most, but this one deserves that level. (96 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker

Oh well, no problem, I'm still not buying at $150, even though it is "ONLY" a 6.514% annual compounded price increase since the 2007 vintage. I can spend the money on other wine from wineries not owned by Mega-ultra-super Corp.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

NED VALOIS
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5514
Joined: March 7th, 2012, 9:47 am
Location: South Miami,Fl

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#10 Post by NED VALOIS » January 9th, 2019, 7:26 am

Purchasing Outpost Wines, located near to Angwin in the Howell Mountain area of Napa Valley, has seen AXA Millésimes achieve a long-term ambition, according to its MD, Christian Seely.

‘We have been looking to make an acquisition in Napa Valley for some time,’ he said, announcing the deal to buy Outpost Wines from the Dotzler family. Financial details were not disclosed.

‘We were thrilled to come across the wines and the vineyards of Outpost Wines a few months ago.’

Several of Bordeaux’s top estate owners and producers have laid down roots in California in the last few decades.

Seely said the move was logical given the pre-eminence of Cabernet Sauvignon in large parts of both the Médoc and Napa.

Outpost produces an estate Cabernet Sauvignon, although it also produces Zinfandel, Petite Sirah and Zinfandel varietal wines from its 11.3 hectare vineyard estate.

Frank and Kathy Dotzler began making wine in the area following their purchase of True Vineyard in 1998.

Outpost’s current winemaker, Thomas Brown, will continue in his position following the acquisition, said Seely. Frank Dotzler will also stay on in a ‘fully operational capacity’, he said.

‘With the purchase of True Vineyard in 1998, Kathy and I embarked on a wonderful journey to try and make wines on the level of the great wines we had experienced from around the world,’ said Frank Dotzler.

‘Together with our exceptional staff, we have made great strides in achieving that goal.’

As well as Pichon Baron in Pauillac, AXA also makes wine in Pomerol and Sauternes in Bordeaux, in Tokaj in Hungary, in the Douro Valley in Portugal and in Nuits-Saint-Georges and Romanée-Saint-Vivant in Burgundy.

NickRut
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 643
Joined: June 10th, 2016, 5:00 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#11 Post by NickRut » January 9th, 2019, 7:53 am

Why do you guys not buy because of the buy-out? Anticipated changes in process or just because it no longer greatly benefits the proprietor? Just curious why that is the response.
Rutkowski

User avatar
larry schaffer
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 7472
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 9:26 am
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, CA

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#12 Post by larry schaffer » January 9th, 2019, 8:10 am

Are folks doing the same with Schrader? Siduri?

Cheers . . .
larry schaffer
tercero wines

User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12357
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#13 Post by J a y H a c k » January 9th, 2019, 8:32 am

larry schaffer wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 8:10 am
Are folks doing the same with Schrader? Siduri?

Cheers . . .
Yes, and Yes. I stopped buying both of those after the acquisitions.
NickRut wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 7:53 am
Why do you guys not buy because of the buy-out? Anticipated changes in process or just because it no longer greatly benefits the proprietor? Just curious why that is the response.
There are more wines that I want to buy than I can actually sensibly buy, so I have to make choices. "It's a really good wine" is a relatively minor factor because there are a lot of wines that I think are really good. So among the wines that I think are really good, how do I choose? Favoring the little guy over the big conglomerate is a very important factor for me. Why? Because it helps me sleep at night. Because it means I can call up the owner if I really want to and chat with him. Because I don't have to worry about the shift in corporate theory worldwide over the past 50 years from "our mission is to make the best product for our customers" to "our mission is to enhance shareholder value." Is Larry Shaffer - he of the first quoted post above - going to do everything he can to make money at his winery? Yes. But at least I know that the guy who is making the decisions has to sleep at night believing that he delivered a quality product to his customer because he has some connection to those customers.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

NickRut
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 643
Joined: June 10th, 2016, 5:00 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#14 Post by NickRut » January 9th, 2019, 11:02 am

Fair thought Jay. I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Rutkowski

User avatar
Billy Norris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 179
Joined: December 21st, 2017, 7:51 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#15 Post by Billy Norris » January 9th, 2019, 11:09 am

Easy pass for me as well--I look to Rivers-Marie to scratch my TRB itch, and it's still impossible to beat the Myriad/Quivet Napa bottlings at $65.

Jim F
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 621
Joined: November 16th, 2015, 6:15 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#16 Post by Jim F » January 9th, 2019, 11:26 am

I M not as irked by the buyout, but this will be my last purchase here.....for many of the other reasons, such as a lot of fine wine out there....but I would not include those Myriad etc in that. Tried ‘em, gave ‘em up.
Jim Freeman

User avatar
Josh Grossman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 955
Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:26 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#17 Post by Josh Grossman » January 9th, 2019, 12:28 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 8:10 am
Are folks doing the same with Schrader? Siduri?

Cheers . . .
Yes, at this point in my wine journey, I'm not buying from anyone that isn't in it primarily for the love of wine. In my minds eye, I have no problem giving an artisan hundreds of dollars so that they can pursue their passion and I can learn from them and get a great product. There are plenty of people on this board who fit that description. That goes for Schrader, Outpost, E.Guigal, and Louis Jadot. I especially shun wine that's goal is to be a Veblen good--f*ck those people!

Earlier in my journey, I started getting into mountain and hillside fruit in a belief that it was less jammy and flabby and thus more balanced than their valley brethren. I believe Napa is soon going to be too hot for Bordeaux varietals and that more than the volcanic soil, it was the cool mountain nights above the fog that would keep this fruit in balance. In my experience, that has mostly been proven much less important than vine age, picking time, and farming techniques. In my limited experience, I'm also finding Sonoma meritages are generally aging better than Napa mountain avas so was already shying away from Napa in general. All that said, sometimes I do want a slutty, glycerol filled, jammy, and Parkerized wine and will continue buying plenty from Napa too--just not Outpost (Just got a notice for Myriad)!

If you want to stay on Howell Mt., might I suggest Cimarossa? Their single vineyards, with a hair more vine age, should be as good as any.

User avatar
Bill Tex Landreth
Posts: 22759
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 11:45 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#18 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » January 9th, 2019, 12:37 pm

Yup, a tough call on this one. Been buying on and off since 2005/6 with a heavy splurge recently.

In the end, as others have alluded to, I have a shit ton of Napa wine and a good chunk of that comes from Thomas and his team. Moving forward, I will choose to support the 'little guy', and not the corporate machine (be it from America or abroad) as I like to connect with the person(s) involved. Lots and lots of wine out there at True pricing and below that is damn fine juice.

Will have to pass and save that money for a dirt farmer that is trying to make a name for him/her self.
It's not easy being drunk all the time. Everyone would be doing it if it were easy.

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16226
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#19 Post by John Morris » January 9th, 2019, 12:39 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 7:17 am
Ok, I looked at the prices. I need another $150 Cali cab like I need, as my mother used to say, a לאָך אין קאָפּ. The True was $85 for the 2007 and is $150 for the 2016. I guess I am being penalized for posting this:
  • 2007 Outpost Cabernet Sauvignon True Vineyard - USA, California, Napa Valley, Howell Mountain (8/13/2011)
    This was a GREAT bottle of wine. ... I opened this one to really blow our guests away, which it did. ... The pleasure level that this wine delivers is extraordinary. ... I do not taste very many wines 95 and above, maybe a handful to a dozen every year at most, but this one deserves that level. (96 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
Plainly, you are a top influencer
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

Joe Mendez
Posts: 233
Joined: June 13th, 2013, 11:15 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#20 Post by Joe Mendez » January 9th, 2019, 9:19 pm

This will be my first time buying, any suggestions?

User avatar
Mark Y
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6852
Joined: May 1st, 2009, 11:19 am
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#21 Post by Mark Y » January 9th, 2019, 9:22 pm

Dumb question. What is the “buy out” people keep talking about?
Y.e.

NED VALOIS
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5514
Joined: March 7th, 2012, 9:47 am
Location: South Miami,Fl

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#22 Post by NED VALOIS » January 9th, 2019, 9:37 pm

See post #10

User avatar
Mark Y
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6852
Joined: May 1st, 2009, 11:19 am
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#23 Post by Mark Y » January 10th, 2019, 7:27 am

Cool! Thanks!
Y.e.

Joe Mendez
Posts: 233
Joined: June 13th, 2013, 11:15 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#24 Post by Joe Mendez » January 10th, 2019, 9:36 pm

Is the True vineyard cab approachable young?

User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12357
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#25 Post by J a y H a c k » January 11th, 2019, 7:13 am

Joe Mendez wrote:
January 10th, 2019, 9:36 pm
Is the True vineyard cab approachable young?
Depends on what you like. I think you can drink it young if you really want, but the longer you wait, the better it gets. My wife and son keep trying to open our 2007s and I keep trying to not do so because every one is better than the last and they have not peaked.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

jeffruggels
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 640
Joined: June 24th, 2011, 9:32 am
Location: Burbank

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#26 Post by jeffruggels » January 11th, 2019, 11:43 am

Jay - helpful. How is the 06 drinking, local retailer here just grabbed some from local cellar and have at decent price

Anthony V
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 46
Joined: August 9th, 2018, 3:35 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#27 Post by Anthony V » January 11th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Does anyone know if there usually a minimum bottle purchase?
Anthony Vail

User avatar
cjsavino
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4829
Joined: April 29th, 2010, 5:00 pm
Location: Cranford NJ

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#28 Post by cjsavino » January 11th, 2019, 12:50 pm

Anthony V wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 12:04 pm
Does anyone know if there usually a minimum bottle purchase?
No minimum purchase.
Chris
Image

User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12357
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#29 Post by J a y H a c k » January 11th, 2019, 2:12 pm

jeffruggels wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 11:43 am
Jay - helpful. How is the 06 drinking, local retailer here just grabbed some from local cellar and have at decent price
Sorry, no note on the '06. I have notes on 05, 07, 09 and 10. I liked them all. '06 should be very good now. The FMIII and Rodney TNs on CT, both of whom I know, are positive indicators.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

jeffruggels
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 640
Joined: June 24th, 2011, 9:32 am
Location: Burbank

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#30 Post by jeffruggels » January 11th, 2019, 2:28 pm

thanks Jay

Joe Mendez
Posts: 233
Joined: June 13th, 2013, 11:15 pm

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#31 Post by Joe Mendez » January 12th, 2019, 12:15 am

J a y H a c k wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 7:13 am
Joe Mendez wrote:
January 10th, 2019, 9:36 pm
Is the True vineyard cab approachable young?
Depends on what you like. I think you can drink it young if you really want, but the longer you wait, the better it gets. My wife and son keep trying to open our 2007s and I keep trying to not do so because every one is better than the last and they have not peaked.

Thanks, will probably pick up a few bottles of the True and the Immigrant.

Shay_A
Posts: 37
Joined: March 24th, 2016, 3:49 pm
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#32 Post by Shay_A » January 15th, 2019, 6:29 am

My allocation is live and order is in. Evidently it opened early.
Shay Aldriedge

NED VALOIS
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5514
Joined: March 7th, 2012, 9:47 am
Location: South Miami,Fl

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#33 Post by NED VALOIS » January 15th, 2019, 6:58 am

Order in 6:30 AM !

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2710
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#34 Post by Rich Brown » January 15th, 2019, 9:06 am

How does the pricing look with the new ownership?

User avatar
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2876
Joined: March 12th, 2013, 7:32 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#35 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » January 15th, 2019, 10:22 am

I've decided to pass.

Rich - pricing is:
2016 Outpost True Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon - $150
2016 Outpost True Vineyard Immigrant - $115
2016 Outpost Estate Cabernet Sauvignon - $95

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2710
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#36 Post by Rich Brown » January 15th, 2019, 10:47 am

Scott Fitzgerald wrote:
January 15th, 2019, 10:22 am
I've decided to pass.

Rich - pricing is:
2016 Outpost True Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon - $150
2016 Outpost True Vineyard Immigrant - $115
2016 Outpost Estate Cabernet Sauvignon - $95
Thanks Scott!

And sorry, just realized that was covered in the OP #Fail

User avatar
EHeffner
Posts: 338
Joined: March 13th, 2018, 8:23 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#37 Post by EHeffner » April 16th, 2019, 2:56 pm

So have people given up on Outpost due to the buyout? I read TRB is staying on for 3 years. Interesting. I’ve always wanted to try Outpost but maybe that ship sailed
E v a n

adam landa
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 868
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 9:15 am

Re: Outpost - who's buying?

#38 Post by adam landa » April 16th, 2019, 7:13 pm

Evan...I have plenty from prior vintages...though would have ordered if not for the price hike...made it an easier decision to pass.

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”